Mathieu Choinière

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting how fast loturi gets a call up and compared to choiniere and priso. I dont think baldisimo is at the level. 

Priso needs to beome a regular starter in Colorado before he gets call up consideration, ditto Baldisimo.  Choiniere has a number of strengths in his game but has also been exposed with protecting the ball under close marking scrutiny or loose passing.  He needs to improve in that area.  Mind you, Kaye has been way too inconsistent in that phase of his game and if that should continue into June, he shouldn't get called up either.

Edited April 25, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Adjusted depth chart based on what I think herdman thinks:
1. staq
2. Kone
3. Oso
4. Hutch
5. Loturi  - 7
6. Piette  - 5
7. Kaye - 6
8. Choiniere - 8/9
9. Fraser - 8/9 

I think the top 3 are solid. I would argue that hutch gets into games as a sub before kaye plus with his experience i for sure think herdman sees him as #4. I think piettes spot on the team is more secure than kaye. Maybe kaye subs in first due to the skillset he has vs piette but I think piette is more likely to keep getting call ups compared to kaye. This makes piette 5. Loturi is at 5 but could easily be 8th. I have no idea how herdman feels about him other than hes above choineire and fraser right now. I have him high up on the list for potential but realistically hes closer to 7. Youre right that fraser should be on the list. He is 8 or 9 as all the other mids have gotten recent call ups if fit (other than choiniere). 

Interesting how fast loturi gets a call up and compared to choiniere and priso. I dont think baldisimo is at the level. 

He's been consistently playing is the difference.

I think Wotherspoon is on that list above Fraser.

[InglewoodJack]

Loturi is also 3 years younger than Choinierre. I'm not entirely opposed to giving MC a call up, and I'm not discounting the idea of him improving since he is only 24, but it remains to be seen how sustainable Choinierre's form will be, especially given the fact that a big reason he looks so good is because the team sucks and they're forced to give him this sort of role. I don't have an exact MLS comp, but he's like in hockey when you have a very good third line centre who is on a terrible team, so they've got him on the first line and he starts putting up a ton of points; he's CF Montreal's David Desharnais, if you will.

I'm sure Choinierre's motor and versatility are very attractive to Herdman, but on the other hand, any game where Canada subs him on is a game we're likely getting blown out in anyways, if that's the quality of player we're fielding. That said, I do like his profile for games on terrible concacaf'd pitches with a short roster- I can imagine him stepping up in those games where it's 45 degrees and humid with a carved up field. I don't know when our next games against those types of opponents are, but if we were going through a WC cycle right now, I wouldn't mind seeing him against Nicaragua or El Salvador.

[Bison44]

Thats not fair to Choineire.  He started plenty of games the last 2 years and has been steadily improving, so its not just that he looks good on a team in a slump.  He is doing the right things, finding the position/spot on the field where he is comfortable and can contribute.  Plenty of other guys (JMR, Nelsen, Rapaso,etc) would do well to do the same as they progress.  With all the games coming this summer, he should be in the mix for a call.  

[dyslexic nam]

I find it interesting how quickly people are theoretically moving Loturi up through the ranks.  He has 0 caps and has only just starting grabbing some limited attention at the last placed team in the SPFL.  I find it hard to believe that Herdman would trust him over a seasoned vet like Piette in an important game.   

Don’t get me wrong - I am optimistic about his potential.  I really hope he makes a big impact on the CMNT in the coming years.  But I think there are mid-depth guys still clearly ahead of him.   
 

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Loturi is also 3 years younger than Choinierre. I'm not entirely opposed to giving MC a call up, and I'm not discounting the idea of him improving since he is only 24, but it remains to be seen how sustainable Choinierre's form will be, especially given the fact that a big reason he looks so good is because the team sucks and they're forced to give him this sort of role.

I think you could say the same about Loturi and Ross County.

[Bison44]

11 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I find it interesting how quickly people are theoretically moving Loturi up through the ranks.  He has 0 caps and has only just starting grabbing some limited attention at the last placed team in the SPFL.  I find it hard to believe that Herdman would trust him over a seasoned vet like Piette in an important game.   

Don’t get me wrong - I am optimistic about his potential.  I really hope he makes a big impact on the CMNT in the coming years.  But I think there are mid-depth guys still clearly ahead of him.   
 

I thought the same about Kone last year, depening on the situation Piette, Oso, Hutch etc could come in and do a better job.  But 6 months down the road and he has almost forced himself into the starting 11.  Loturi might not be better than Piette or Oso etc today, but in 6-12 months he just might be eh?  And Herdmans like a skittish colt, he doesnt want the bridle, doesnt want to bring in new guys at all, so if he feels comfortable calling Loturi I'm not going to dissuade him.  

[Bigandy]

3 hours ago, Shway said:

He's been consistently playing is the difference.

I think Wotherspoon is on that list above Fraser.

So has chioniere though. I agree with loturi's call up over the other guys but MC has been on the cusp for a while and loturi basically was no where near a call up and then poof hes called up.  What i derive from that is its incredibly hard to break our 25ish squad unless you are young and high potential or a dual nat. 

As for spoony- I agree but I don't think he gets called up as a CM. It might be semantics but when JH is building his squad and he picks CM's, I think spoony gets overlooked for a call up. As a winger, he gets picked because he can play as a defensive winger and has versatility. Again, its semantics but I have a hard time including spoony in the CM depth charts. 

[costarg]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Loturi is also 3 years younger than Choinierre. I'm not entirely opposed to giving MC a call up, and I'm not discounting the idea of him improving since he is only 24, but it remains to be seen how sustainable Choinierre's form will be, especially given the fact that a big reason he looks so good is because the team sucks and they're forced to give him this sort of role. I don't have an exact MLS comp, but he's like in hockey when you have a very good third line centre who is on a terrible team, so they've got him on the first line and he starts putting up a ton of points; he's CF Montreal's David Desharnais, if you will.

I'm sure Choinierre's motor and versatility are very attractive to Herdman, but on the other hand, any game where Canada subs him on is a game we're likely getting blown out in anyways, if that's the quality of player we're fielding. That said, I do like his profile for games on terrible concacaf'd pitches with a short roster- I can imagine him stepping up in those games where it's 45 degrees and humid with a carved up field. I don't know when our next games against those types of opponents are, but if we were going through a WC cycle right now, I wouldn't mind seeing him against Nicaragua or El Salvador.

i think you"re underestimating Choiniere a little.  Almost 1400 minutes in 2022, 12th on a hugely succesful team.  Only 2 full games less than Kone.  

1992 minutes in 2021, 6th overall on the roster. 

He's been producing at a high level with serious competition for quite a while.  He's not flashy, but he's consistent, hard-working and in great shape.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

I think you could say the same about Loturi and Ross County.

He's 21 and has potential to move up a level. I don't think anyone is saying that of Choiniere. Loturi also isn't good enough to actually get on the field for us right now, he's just young enough that they want to warm him up to the team.

14 minutes ago, costarg said:

i think you"re underestimating Choiniere a little.  Almost 1400 minutes in 2022, 12th on a hugely succesful team.  Only 2 full games less than Kone.  

1992 minutes in 2021, 6th overall on the roster. 

He's been producing at a high level with serious competition for quite a while.  He's not flashy, but he's consistent, hard-working and in great shape.

Choiniere is not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. He's a player every single team in MLS should want on their roster, he's good for what he is, but what he is is not national team material. On a different scale, he's in the same spot as ZBG- good in bursts, can give you solid minutes, helps his club out when he's on the field, but if these are guys you're dressing against good national teams, you're losing that game. I did add the caveat that I'd be fine with playing him against lesser concacaf teams, I think he can step up in games where our european players have a harder time, but if we have our A team at our disposal and we're trying to win trophies, he doesn't make the team.

[costarg]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Choiniere is not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. He's a player every single team in MLS should want on their roster, he's good for what he is, but what he is is not national team material. On a different scale, he's in the same spot as ZBG- good in bursts, can give you solid minutes, helps his club out when he's on the field, but if these are guys you're dressing against good national teams, you're losing that game. I did add the caveat that I'd be fine with playing him against lesser concacaf teams, I think he can step up in games where our european players have a harder time, but if we have our A team at our disposal and we're trying to win trophies, he doesn't make the team.

Understood, and somewhat agree. 

The comment that stood out for me and had a hard time digesting was:  

"it remains to be seen how sustainable Choinierre's form will be, especially given the fact that a big reason he looks so good is because the team sucks and they're forced to give him this sort of role."

He has sustained it, over 3 seasons, and this on a very successful team and roster.  If we base ourselves on form, minutes and production over the past two seasons he's above Kaye, Hutch and Loturi.  However we all know Herdman has his favorites (I'm looking at you Fraser, Henry and Brym) that will hold their spots regardless of reality, form or any other measure we'd like to consider. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

Understood, and somewhat agree. 

The comment that stood out for me and had a hard time digesting was:  

"it remains to be seen how sustainable Choinierre's form will be, especially given the fact that a big reason he looks so good is because the team sucks and they're forced to give him this sort of role."

He has sustained it, over 3 seasons, and this on a very successful team and roster.  If we base ourselves on form, minutes and production over the past two seasons he's above Kaye, Hutch and Loturi.  However we all know Herdman has his favorites (I'm looking at you Fraser, Henry and Brym) that will hold their spots regardless of reality, form or any other measure we'd like to consider. 

When I'm talking about his form, I mean the fact that he looks far and away to be Montreal's best player. We don't win the game against Red Bulls without him, and we probably don't beat Philly- he had an excellent assist on the last goal. He plays the rest of the season like this, he's going to get called up- hell, he's probably going to become a much wealthier man because of it too. Now with his regular form, he's still a good player, he's someone I'm happy we have, but that isn't good enough to play for Canada at this point.

Herdman does have his favourites, and unfortunately, if Choiniere was having this kind of season in 2020, he'd probably be one of those guys, but I just don't know who he beats out for a roster spot. Hasn't Kaye been having a sneaky good season for TFC this year? You can't not call up Atiba until he really retires, and Loturi isn't actually good enough to play for us, he's just a young guy we want to bring around the team. I think Brym will always have a spot because he can score goals, but if he doesn't latch on in the eredivisie next year, he might be in trouble. He's definitely above Henry and Fraser, but Herdman wants Europe, so one of those spots goes to Loturi, and the other spot gets dangled at whichever dual national might come play for us.

 

 

[PegCityCam]

Assist on Montreal's goal away to KC.

[PegCityCam]

And a goal!

[PegCityCam]

 

[costarg]

Tearing it up

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Great to hear that with guys like him and Herbert and Ahmed etc. , some decent depth is emerging in MLS.  

Real important going into a busy summer.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Great to hear that with guys like him and Herbert and Ahmed etc. , some decent depth is emerging in MLS.  

Real important going into a busy summer.

It is possible that MC could turn into an Osorio type of player - produces offensively, succeeds in MLS and hits a level that is good enough to be a significant player for the Nats.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[sebdeserio]

41 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It isn’t impossible that MC could turn into an Osorio type of player - produces offensively, succeeds in MLS and hits a level that is good enough to be a significant player for the Nats.  

Fixed your post (I think)

[dyslexic nam]

48 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Fixed your post (I think)

Lol. Yeah.  Just saw the typo.  

[phresh]

Made team of the week. Laryea too.

 

[Stryker911]

59 minutes ago, phresh said:

Made team of the week. Laryea too.

 

His 2nd in a row and 3 in the last 6 weeks for Laryea (and 1 of those weeks he was away with Canada)

[Shway]

call up has to be imminent at this point. 

[BearcatSA]

I like his big engine. Covers a lot of ground.

[Snowcrash]

7 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I like his big engine. Covers a lot of ground.

Having Russell Teibert or Terry Dunfield's motor but 10x their offensive potential is a pretty useful player.