Herdman new head coach

[The Beaver]

20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get where you are coming from, and there is some truth in there, but I suspect Herdman's full court PR press is just getting started - and with good reason.  We are as close to a cult of CMNT soccer nerds as this country gets, so I don't think we are the right yardstick to measure Herdman's level of self promotion and/or media saturation.  We follow every burp and twitch of CMNT news, so we see everything he does.  But that generally isn't the case with the broader public.  Right now, I suspect he is still trying to get as many eyes and column inches on the CMNT as possible, and for better or worse the reality is that he is one of the more recognizable faces associated with the team.  I don't expect the charm offensive to end anytime soon.

Fair enough, and I can appreciate such a tactic, in so much as it supports the larger strategies you've outlined here.  But he has to be careful about all these little moments where he suggests he is our soccer messiah.  He needs to do good work and let us and the media call him The Jesus of Canadian Soccer.  Again, I am not entirely against self-promotion, but it can derail one's credibility and authority if it is not used judiciously. 

[ted]

2 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Can't quite fathom how you've misread my post 

We where discussing his use of video of the Women he coached and that was being characterized as self-aggrandizement.

WTF were you talking about if not that?!?

[Ansem]

Criticize the man all you want but I'm glad he got other bases covered. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Ansem

[The Beaver]

3 hours ago, ted said:

We where discussing his use of video of the Women he coached and that was being characterized as self-aggrandizement.

WTF were you talking about if not that?!?

You’re capable of much better than this, Ted. So disingenuous.

[RJB]

Herdman may well do a good job for us - and I really want that - but he certainly is a self-promotion machine.  He says very little of consequence other than toot his own horn and talk about things that are more motivational than anything: culture, identity, putting in a shift, buying-in, etc.  I think he's his biggest fan.  And why wouldn't he be?  He got the CSA to flinch and hire him as the MNT coach, and he got to hand-pick the WNT coach.  He's got his finger prints all over the CSA at this point, so, it's tough not to be too full of himself. 

And right now, I don't really care about any of that, because we're winning.  And as long as that continues, I'm content.  That's all I want, and all I've wanted for a very long time.  If he can turn this minnow around, then he ultimately deserves to pat himself on the back!

[Bison44]

Are we talking about the 140 page online report??  Did he tell them they can look up the last 50 years of WC reports on there too?  Did he tell the other provinces or just Ontario??  I love Bobby McMahon to pieces but this is news? "Hey, everyone should check out this report that is published after every WC and is available for free on the internet".  I'm sure there are plenty of free coaching material available online, would Herdman make a college style reading list for all technical personel of all provinces??  

[Ansem]

38 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Are we talking about the 140 page online report??  Did he tell them they can look up the last 50 years of WC reports on there too?  Did he tell the other provinces or just Ontario??  I love Bobby McMahon to pieces but this is news? "Hey, everyone should check out this report that is published after every WC and is available for free on the internet".  I'm sure there are plenty of free coaching material available online, would Herdman make a college style reading list for all technical personel of all provinces??  

really? 

But hey... we're Canada, we don't need to read the basic stuff. We're right up there with France, Germany and Italy ?

Edited October 25, 2018 by Ansem

[Ansem]

47 minutes ago, RJB said:

Herdman may well do a good job for us - and I really want that - but he certainly is a self-promotion machine. 

As long as we keep winning, qualify for League A, don't get relegated to League B, get to Gold Cup semi-finals, qualify for a potential Copa America and actually perform, qualify WCQ...

WHO CARES????

He can spam, have his face 24/7 in Dundas Square, self-promote all he wants... He would would have earned it if he achieves all the above

[toontownman]

Time will tell on the coaching side, although reports so far seem to be positive. I do however think his PR hype machine mentality is what the game needs in this country it will draw more people in. It is a connect we haven't had with recent past coaches. Due in part to the language barrier but also with Herdman being more progressive, relevant and forward thinking with his communication.

While I find it boderline cringey at times, little things like social media videos and messages to fans will go a long way to bringing the team closer to fans and vice versa.

He exudes confidence and energy that will eventually win people over and inspire. Atiba alluded to it in his interview a couple of weeks ago that he is a modern coach and players have bought into his vision.  

 The skeptics won't be as easily invested but the masses likely will. Results, visible improvement and proving himself tactically will ultimately unite everyone.

So far so good. 

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Time will tell on the coaching side, although reports so far seem to be positive. I do however think his PR hype machine mentality is what the game needs in this country it will draw more people in. It is a connect we haven't had with recent past coaches. Due in part to the language barrier but also with Herdman being more progressive, relevant and forward thinking with his communication.

While I find it boderline cringey at times, little things like social media videos and messages to fans will go a long way to bringing the team closer to fans and vice versa.

He exudes confidence and energy that will eventually win people over and inspire. Atiba alluded to it in his interview a couple of weeks ago that he is a modern coach and players have bought into his vision.  

 The skeptics won't be as easily invested but the masses likely will. Results, visible improvement and proving himself tactically will ultimately unite everyone.

So far so good. 

When was the last time the MSM talked that much about the National team anyways? A I'm satisfied with what's going on, even if he likes the attention. He's doing his job

[toontownman]

Exactly. it's measured and tactical geared towards creating a culture and contributing to the continued build of the game here. What grates some (understandably) is that it's sometimes a bit Herdman centric but if Herdman is doing well or appearing well that is good for the program just as much as the reverse. 

[ted]

15 hours ago, The Beaver said:

You’re capable of much better than this, Ted. So disingenuous.

WTF are you talking about?!??!

If you were talking about something other than the use of the videos then you should say so. I was talking about the use of the videos and assumed you were as well, and made that very clear.
 

 

[Admin]

[The Beaver]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Super calm! Smoked some homegrown, super legal bud and now I am as chill as

 

[dyslexic nam]

30 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Super calm! Smoked some homegrown, super legal bud and now I am as chill as

 

Was in the Charlottetown store the other day.  I couldn't stop grinning.

[The Beaver]

58 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Was in the Charlottetown store the other day.  I couldn't stop grinning.

Come to Vancouver and I will smoke you up with White Lightning from my garden. Hell, I'll smoke up all you bastards (even Ted) ?

[BearcatSA]

9 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Super calm! Smoked some homegrown, super legal bud and now I am as chill as

 

So now we'll see the board fluctuating between high levels of chill and high levels of paranoia.  That combination should make for some entertaining posts on here.

Edited October 26, 2018 by BearcatSA

[Bison44]

This is terrible for me.  All you guys are rolling fat ones and going all mellow and I am stuck in the 1950's (with nothing but booze) getting more worked up and angry about the U-20 tournie.  Cheers!

[The Beaver]

27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This is terrible for me.  All you guys are rolling fat ones and going all mellow and I am stuck in the 1950's (with nothing but booze) getting more worked up and angry about the U-20 tournie.  Cheers!

Why for are you stuck in the 50s?  An anomaly in the time-space continuum?  Too much acid in the 70s?  Or are you living in the US of A?

[RS]

Most of this thread

[A_Gagne]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:48 PM, Kent said:

Wait, I just had an idea. Lots of people on this board criticise Herdman for talking before he's gotten meaningful results. By that logic shouldn't those critics wait until he has bad results before they criticise?

I wholeheartedly disagree and think we should all jump to conclusions. If not, seriously, what would I do when I'm supposed to be working?  

[RS]

13 minutes ago, RS said:

Most of this thread

 

6 minutes ago, A_Gagne said:

I wholeheartedly disagree and think we should all jump to conclusions. If not, seriously, what would I do when I'm supposed to be working?  

The rest of this thread:

[BearcatSA]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:35 PM, RJB said:

Fair enough, I suppose I should have said, first priority.  But I'll double down on my position: I don't care about the culture of this team, as long as we win.  I've supported the MNT for a very long time, and am resigned to us being a minnow.  I don't care about culture, or identity, or guest speakers, I care about winning.

Watching the Whitecaps post season presser melt down reinforces for me the need for a strong team culture to help lead to the winning that we all want.

[RJB]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:33 PM, BearcatSA said:

Watching the Whitecaps post season presser melt down reinforces for me the need for a strong team culture to help lead to the winning that we all want.

Fair enough.  This is chicken and egg stuff.  I say that if we win, culture doesn't matter.  You say you can't win without good culture.  While I will concede that you may be correct, all I'm saying is that I'll take winning over good culture any day.  A paradox you say?  That's fine.  I've watched Canada move into minnow territory over the last twenty years and I'd like a winner please. 

I've said this before, those minutes that we were leading in 2014 WCQ at Honduras were some of the best feeling watching this team I've had in too long.  James had scored, it was all looking likely.  Am I supposed to just be satisfied that oh well we lost but we have a good culture?  If this type of thing is necessary, then do it, but don't try and sell me on it.  As a teambuilding notion, this sort of thing should  just happen.  It's when pundits have nothing to talk about do they posit on its importance and we all get wound up about it, and frankly I just think it's a good talking point.

Win some games, then some more, problem solved. 

[BearcatSA]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, RJB said:

Fair enough.  This is chicken and egg stuff.  I say that if we win, culture doesn't matter.  You say you can't win without good culture.  While I will concede that you may be correct, all I'm saying is that I'll take winning over good culture any day.  A paradox you say?  That's fine.  I've watched Canada move into minnow territory over the last twenty years and I'd like a winner please. 

I've said this before, those minutes that we were leading in 2014 WCQ at Honduras were some of the best feeling watching this team I've had in too long.  James had scored, it was all looking likely.  Am I supposed to just be satisfied that oh well we lost but we have a good culture?  If this type of thing is necessary, then do it, but don't try and sell me on it.  As a teambuilding notion, this sort of thing should  just happen.  It's when pundits have nothing to talk about do they posit on its importance and we all get wound up about it, and frankly I just think it's a good talking point.

Win some games, then some more, problem solved. 

No, no one should be satisfied because we failed to get to the next stage of World Cup qualifying.  That's the objective here.

I got into this conversation originally because of Herdman's own comments about building a team culture and my assertion that the only way you find out about how good your team culture is is when your team is facing adversity, especially when expectations start getting jacked up and your squad is perceived as underachieving.  It doesn't take much for "we" guys to become "me" guys in those situations, as what happened on a number of occasions in the past with this program.  I want a team with a tough-to-beat mentality that allows us to win more tight games against tougher opponents than choke.  A strong team culture is about finding ways to win as opposed to making excuses when things don't go right.  Every top level team has struggles with dissension and egos clashing.  That happens, but the good teams and good leadership in those teams find ways to win.  Often it involves unpopular, ruthless decisions made behind closed doors, not aired out in a public blame game. 

I don't disagree with the chicken and egg analogy because excellence is not an act but a habit.  You keep winning, and everyone is happy.  But beating Caribbean minnows means f-all to me when you've watched the same movie over the last two decades where we find a way to choke when it matters most against our closet rivals for qualification.  All that previous winning, and winning some more,  means f-all  because, hey, we choked again!

Like you, I'm very tired of it.  Let's see if this team finally become better than the sum of it's individual, role playing parts.  I definitely know the Whitecaps weren't:  they won some, but fell apart when it mattered most.