Ottawa CPL Club

[Ottawafan74]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

That's fine and I don't disagree with the decision but please, meet me half way and admit that they completely mishandled this publicly. There was a right way to do this and they opted to open a can of drama upon FIFA.

But they agreed to ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS to get sanction within FIFA. Now they are arguing that the rules no longer favor them and will hurt their business. Sure, but point to when and where FIFA put a knife on their throats forcing them to agree to those terms?

They went all in KNOWING this could happen. If they didn't know... some people had no business being employed there.

I don't disagree but they AGREED to FIFA rules in exchange of sanctioning and all the good, bad and ugly that comes with it. I see all your arguments but Pro-Fury fans have a really hard time coming to terms with what it means to willingly sign and agree to a contract

Then they made a stupid business decision by starting the Fury and were in it for the wrong reasons

What the hell are you talking about. I'm sorry but welcome to capitalism.

When you say they completely mishandled this I assume you mean CONCACAF and the CPL. The Fury were never joining the CPL at this point and the CPL knew this. Except VM was telling the CPL he would make the Fury the 8th team in the league. He tried publicly to force them but had to back down. 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

When you say they completely mishandled this I assume you mean CONCACAF and the CPL. The Fury were never joining the CPL at this point and the CPL knew this. Except VM was telling the CPL he would make the Fury the 8th team in the league. He tried publicly to force them but had to back down. 

I can't deal with denial

[matty]

15 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I can't deal with denial

if concacaf actually told the csa they would not grant approval (as has been reported by more than just the fury and ottawa sun) before they even saw the application the past week was their fuck up but fury 100% made this a public shitshow of it.

ignore ottawa, he's fuelling the cpl/concacaf/csa working to force in/kill the fury conspiracy (which is dumb as fuck because of how much damage it could do).

Edited December 22, 2018 by matty

[Ottawafan74]

What conspiracy?  Point out where the Fury stated they were going to join the CPL. You can’t. But I can show you where concacaf attempted to force the Fury into a league they didn’t want to be in. If VM was so sure about what he was doing, why did he tuck tail and reverse his stance?

Again I feel the Fury should join the league at some point if the league wants them. But his isn’t the way to do it. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Ottawafan74

[matty]

20 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

What conspiracy?  Point out where the Fury stated they were going to join the CPL. You can’t. But I can show you where concacaf attempted to force the Fury into a league they didn’t want to be in. If VM was so sure about what he was doing, why did he tuck tail and reverse his stance?

Again I feel the Fury should join the league at some point if the league wants them. But his isn’t the way to do it. 

 

45 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

When you say they completely mishandled this I assume you mean CONCACAF and the CPL. The Fury were never joining the CPL at this point and the CPL knew this. Except VM was telling the CPL he would make the Fury the 8th team in the league. He tried publicly to force them but had to back down. 

The conspiracy that Vic was working with CPL or CSA on this. Vic might want to force it but there has been zero evidence linking CPL or CSA to actively working with him other than a loose claim from a Fury rep that someone (CPL team? player agent? Batman?) was smearing them to get players to not sign with OFFC, a claim which no one else has mentioned over this week.

Edited December 22, 2018 by matty

[Ottawafan74]

Sorry just saw the kill the Fury conspiracy part. Can’t speak to that. But VM was huge behind getting the CPL up and running and yes, he did try and force the Fury into the league. Had he left it alone the Fury and the CPL would have probably come together at some point in the near future. But he pulled a heavy and the gamble didn’t work. 

[Winnipeg Fury]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Again I feel the Fury should join the league at some point if the league wants them. But his isn’t the way to do it. 

That's a big "if".

Ottawa wanted USL, Ottawa got USL.  Enjoy it

I don't know a single Winnipeg fan that's pining for the Fury to join CPL.  

Hoping CPL focuses on ownership groups that want to be part of our league.  Time to close the door on OSEG, and focus on Kitchener-Waterloo, Quebec City, Laval,  Saskatoon, Regina, Montreal,...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

OSEG has shown itself to be toxic and irresponsible. Their media relations are underhanded as well. I would not like to see that ownership group in CPL unless they can turn their mentality around. 

I am happy they can play in USL, and since I am a Canadian fan, I will follow their progress as well.  Better for fans in Ottawa, better for their players and sports structure. Keep the soccer flame alive in the city. 

By 2020 we have Bunbury's project giving us a balanced schedule, so really, unless there were another team willing to enter for 2020, I would prefer to not allow Ottawa in as the 9th team until they are more definitively outnumbered.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 hours ago, matty said:

Dude you don't know that. No one probably does (the Fury and CONCACAF or CSA are likely paying lawyers to see how to go about this for next year in case they actually do go to CAS)....

In reality, they probably all already have the lawyer's advice on that and it is guiding their actions. Bear in mind that a lot of people on here were claiming that the CSA wouldn't provide sanctioning when the Fury announced they were staying in USL back in September. Why did the CSA proceed with the sanctioning anyway despite the letters that VM was sending?

The problem the CSA would have is justifying why it is only the Fury that no longer have an acceptable exceptional circumstance when they are still giving playing out rights to MLS and PDL teams and TFC II. As I have seen it being described elsewhere that would be a case of opening up Pandora's box at a time when the CSA and USSF are working together very closely on the 2026 hosting. The path of least resistance is to grandfather them all in.

[SthMelbRed]

So, after reading through the last 5 pages of this thread, is there anybody left who wants to argue against my point, made a few days ago,  that BBTB is a complete cunt of a bloke? 

[Ottawafan74]

6 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

That's a big "if".

Ottawa wanted USL, Ottawa got USL.  Enjoy it

I don't know a single Winnipeg fan that's pining for the Fury to join CPL.  

Hoping CPL focuses on ownership groups that want to be part of our league.  Time to close the door on OSEG, and focus on Kitchener-Waterloo, Quebec City, Laval,  Saskatoon, Regina, Montreal,...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then let them be. If you don’t want them, and they aren’t interested in the CPL, why are VM and his buddies in his league trying so hard to force them in?  Close the door on the Fury and build what you have. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The obvious answer is that they are worried that the league won't succeed without them.The Fury still being in USL also complicates their narrative about  being Canada's top league providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play. If several fringe CMNT players opt for the Fury and USL that argument is holed beneath the waterline, if at the same time there are very few active CMNT players in CanPL. What CanPL needs now is a massively successful opening season to finally walk the walk rather than talk the talk. Hopefully that happens because another gut-wrenching fiasco like the CPSL and CSL is too awful to even contemplate.

[Winnipeg Fury]

39 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Then let them be. If you don’t want them, and they aren’t interested in the CPL, why are VM and his buddies in his league trying so hard to force them in?  Close the door on the Fury and build what you have. 

I agree with your sentiment completely.  

But I also think VM is correct, as the exceptional circumstance for allowing OSEG to play in a foreign league no longer exists.  VM is simply doing his job, and I would not be surprised if this is the one year reprieve,  we were all expecting.

 After the way OSEG have conducted themselves publicly, don't expect the CPL welcome-matt to be rolled out, regardless of future CONCACAF rulings.  

 

[Kent]

16 hours ago, Ottawafan74 said:

 

An independent appraisal valued the Fury somewhere between $7-$8M. What’s a CPL squad worth? 

But to answer your question if you a buyer would you pay $7-$8M for an existing club and then a relocation fee to move the team?  Expansion in the USL is $7M. Would the USL even entertain the notion considering an expansion fee is the same amount?  The USL would lose out on a pile of money. Same as the Winnipeg Jets paid a relocation fee which is about a fifth of what Seattle just went for ( I get that they are years apart ). Expansion money means more to the league and its owners in this case. 

The first sentence is arguing about how valuable the Fury are. Then the next paragraph is arguing how they aren't actually that valuable because nobody would buy them for that price. So I'm not sure what your point is.

[Winnipeg Fury]

35 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The obvious answer is that they are worried that the league won't succeed without them.The Fury still being in USL also complicates their narrative about  being Canada's top league providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play. If several fringe CMNT players opt for the Fury and USL that argument is holed beneath the waterline, if at the same time there are very few active CMNT players in CanPL. What CanPL needs now is a massively successful opening season to finally walk the walk rather than talk the talk. Hopefully that happens because another gut-wrenching fiasco like the CPSL and CSL is too awful to even contemplate.

"The obvious answer is that they are worried that the league won't succeed without them."    Obviously the more established clubs in CPL, the better.  Initially why would you not want them  ?  But to suggest the CPL won't succeed without the Fury is ridiculous.  The Fury average 4000 fans, and are a mid-table USL side.  This isn't Man United, on or off the field.  They will be in the same ball-park as CPL.   

"The Fury still being in USL also complicates their narrative about being Canada's top league providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play."  The CPL will be Canada's top league.  USL is not a Canadian league and they will never be joined by other Canadian clubs.  Again, Fury are a mid table USL side with decent crowds.  No offence to the Fury, but those aren't exactly dizzying heights to achieve.  The CPL will see tremendous growth on the field, year after year.   I can tell you the CPL will be producing far more Canadian talent than the Fury, right off the start.  Nobody cares if a fringe national team player can make an extra $10,000 with the Fury.  The Fury play in purgatory, on the road to nowhere. If they aren't sanctioned in 2020, they will quickly find themselves in a very unenviable position.

"If several fringe CMNT players opt for the Fury and USL that argument is holed beneath the waterline, if at the same time there are very few active CMNT players in CanPL."   Rubbish.  Fringe national team players can play wherever they want, and it's not a measure of anything.  I think your idea of "massively successful" is probably far different than mine.  CPL need expansion and stability, not fireworks and fringe players.  The magic will happen on the field with the development of Canadian players.   If CPL can expand and remain stable, that in my eyes is massively successful and the goal will have been achieved, on and off the field.

"Hopefully that happens because another gut-wrenching fiasco like the CPSL and CSL is too awful to even contemplate."  It's in the best interest of Canadian soccer if CPL thrives.  It's what every Canadian fan should want.  The CPSL.....don't even go there.  As far as comparing CSL to CPL, yes I agree CPL obviously needs to survive.  In terms of ownership, there is no comparison between the two leagues, CPL blows CSL out of the water on very level conceivable.  In terms of player development, I will be very happy with CSL production.  In those 6 CSL years, the quality of play probably increased by 50% every year.  World class talent was produced.  I expect the same from CPL.  Exactly why any boasting of Fury marginal superiority is meaningless.  

Are you buying season-tickets to any of the CPL clubs  ?  I'm assuming Hamilton/Y9 are in your very general vicinity. 

 

 

 

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Then let them be. If you don’t want them, and they aren’t interested in the CPL, why are VM and his buddies in his league trying so hard to force them in?  Close the door on the Fury and build what you have. 

Who says they’re trying hard to force them in? 

[Kent]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The obvious answer is that they are worried that the league won't succeed without them.The Fury still being in USL also complicates their narrative about  being Canada's top league providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play. If several fringe CMNT players opt for the Fury and USL that argument is holed beneath the waterline, if at the same time there are very few active CMNT players in CanPL. What CanPL needs now is a massively successful opening season to finally walk the walk rather than talk the talk. Hopefully that happens because another gut-wrenching fiasco like the CPSL and CSL is too awful to even contemplate.

I don't see it that way. The CPL will still be Canada's top league. The Fury aren't a league, TFC aren't a league, Impact aren't a league, Whitecaps aren't a league, and USL and MLS are not Canadian. So CPL will still be Canada's top league. As for providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play, maybe I'm forgetting but have they stated that? I thought they talk about it being a pipeline for national team players. A place for players to develop into national team players, rather than a place for national team players to come play.

[Vic]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

So, after reading through the last 5 pages of this thread, is there anybody left who wants to argue against my point, made a few days ago,  that BBTB is a complete cunt of a bloke? 

He's just your regular garden variety sociopath.

[Ottawafan74]

28 minutes ago, Kent said:

The first sentence is arguing about how valuable the Fury are. Then the next paragraph is arguing how they aren't actually that valuable because nobody would buy them for that price. So I'm not sure what your point is.

The USL probably wouldn’t allow it. They would be losing out on the expansion fee of $7M. Charge them a relocation fee?  Then the new owner is spending more money when they could have just paid the expansion fee of $7M. 

[Ottawafan74]

20 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't see it that way. The CPL will still be Canada's top league. The Fury aren't a league, TFC aren't a league, Impact aren't a league, Whitecaps aren't a league, and USL and MLS are not Canadian. So CPL will still be Canada's top league. As for providing a necessary place for CMNT players to play, maybe I'm forgetting but have they stated that? I thought they talk about it being a pipeline for national team players. A place for players to develop into national team players, rather than a place for national team players to come play.

CPL is 10 years away from housing national team players. Unless they are 17 or 32, any player of quality will come from Europe or MLS. 

[CanSuffer]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

that BBTB is a complete cunt of a bloke? 

I don't agree with or like many of BBTB's post, but he's never called anyone a cunt.

[Ottawafan74]

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I agree with your sentiment completely.  

But I also think VM is correct, as the exceptional circumstance for allowing OSEG to play in a foreign league no longer exists.  VM is simply doing his job, and I would not be surprised if this is the one year reprieve,  we were all expecting.

 After the way OSEG have conducted themselves publicly, don't expect the CPL welcome-matt to be rolled out, regardless of future CONCACAF rulings.  

 

I keep seeing people here trotting this line out about how OSEG have conducted themselves. What exactly is it they have allegedly done?

[dyslexic nam]

32 minutes ago, CanSuffer said:

I don't agree with or like many of BBTB's post, but he's never called anyone a cunt.

No, that wouldn't be passive aggressive enough for him.

[BrennanFan]

55 minutes ago, CanSuffer said:

I don't agree with or like many of BBTB's post, but he's never called anyone a cunt.

There's also the bitter reality that he correctly predicted the outcome of this mess from the beginning.  

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

42 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

I keep seeing people here trotting this line out about how OSEG have conducted themselves. What exactly is it they have allegedly done?

If anyone had suggested on here before about August that the Fury would threaten CONCACAF with CAS arbitration in order to stay in the USL they would have been subjected to all kinds of ridicule, because just about everybody was convinced that there was going to be an eight team launch.

Rather than finally questioning the motives of the people that misled them into believing that was the case, they need to find ways to believe that it's only delayed to 2020, or that the Fury have done something terribly underhand while pragmatically trying to avoid major financial losses, in order to keep their world view intact.

If CanPL struggles out of the gate this summer there will be all kinds of meltdowns on here and elsewhere and the Fury have positioned themselves perfectly to be one of the main scapegoats.