Ottawa CPL Club

[matty]

Just now, CDNFootballer said:

USL D2 has had MLS reserve/B teams and affiliates for years. The new USL D3 has a few B teams that moved down.

Guess you were referrng to USL starting the D3 for 2019 they've been planning for a while? No real systematic changes.

Wait did you think I was not referring to the 2019 changes? Also I think it (at least in theory) will change the focus of D2 and D3 more than it's been for the last decade. Like you won't have D2 and D3 competing with each other or a D2 trying to also be the one stop shop developmental league for the D1

[MBZitch]

From Neil Davidsons latest CP article on Toronto FC:

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/01/03/toronto-fc-coach-says-argentine-forward-lucas-janson-may-not-be-back/

"Toronto FC president Bill Manning says the club is working on an affiliation deal with Ottawa Fury FC that would see the MLS team lend players to the USL side.

With Toronto FC 2 opting to move down to the USL third-tier to field a young side, Manning said the club needs a home for some of its more experienced reserves.

Manning said he worked behind the scenes to help sort out the dispute between the Fury and CONCACAF over sanctioning the Ottawa team to play in the largely American USL."

 

Wonder what's happened to the Fury's affiliation with the Impact?

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, MBZitch said:

From Neil Davidsons latest CP article on Toronto FC:

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/01/03/toronto-fc-coach-says-argentine-forward-lucas-janson-may-not-be-back/

"Toronto FC president Bill Manning says the club is working on an affiliation deal with Ottawa Fury FC that would see the MLS team lend players to the USL side.

With Toronto FC 2 opting to move down to the USL third-tier to field a young side, Manning said the club needs a home for some of its more experienced reserves.

Manning said he worked behind the scenes to help sort out the dispute between the Fury and CONCACAF over sanctioning the Ottawa team to play in the largely American USL."

 

Wonder what's happened to the Fury's affiliation with the Impact?

Given that the Impact arrangement was only announced last year (I think) this seems like a bit of a kitchen sink approach to try and keep the Fury n USL.  From the MLS perspective, the motivation is understandable since they would want to avoid any situation where CONCACAF establishes the desanctioning precedent.  Thus they may be looking to strengthen the Fury's rationale for continued exemption via ongoing "exceptional circumstances".  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

18 minutes ago, MBZitch said:

...Wonder what's happened to the Fury's affiliation with the Impact?

Don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility to have two such agreements in place at the same time.

[Ansem]

54 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Given that the Impact arrangement was only announced last year (I think) this seems like a bit of a kitchen sink approach to try and keep the Fury n USL.  From the MLS perspective, the motivation is understandable since they would want to avoid any situation where CONCACAF establishes the desanctioning precedent.  Thus they may be looking to strengthen the Fury's rationale for continued exemption via ongoing "exceptional circumstances".  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

I would say that will hardly make a difference in CONCACAF and CSA minds. They already showed that they no longer support the rationale. TFC having a deal with them instead of Montreal doesn't change anything.

[Ansem]

44 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility to have two such agreements in place at the same time.

Would they be allowed in the Canadian Championship if most of their rosters end up being MLS players on loan? 

I wouldn't be supportive of that

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

49 minutes ago, Ansem said:

...They already showed that they no longer support the rationale...

There was some correspondence to that effect from Victor Montagliani prior to the formal process starting at which point the paperwork sailed straight through in only a few days. Think the precedent has already been set that the Fury can enter the Canadian Championship as an affiliate of an MLS franchise. It's only outright reserve teams that are excluded. My guess would be that the Toronto angle in all of this would revolve in some way around TFC having been actively prevented from using CanPL for TFC II and hence still needing ongoing access to the USL Championship level in Canada to do what they need to do in player development terms. It's possible that they went through the motions on the high media profile approach to Bob Young and co for TFC II to enter CanPL precisely so they could make use of their rejection for entry later to justify still using USL in a Canadian context.

Edited January 4, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[ted]

50 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Would they be allowed in the Canadian Championship if most of their rosters end up being MLS players on loan? 

Why not? I would assume that players would be "cup-tied" for that season if they play in a cup game for one team. That's how they do it in the FA Cup in England. BTW sometimes it means that loan agreements in England specify that a player cannot play in cup games in case the "home" club needs them later in the tournament.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I would say that will hardly make a difference in CONCACAF and CSA minds. They already showed that they no longer support the rationale. TFC having a deal with them instead of Montreal doesn't change anything.

 

I tend to agree that it probably won't impact the Fury's status long term - just trying to understand TFC's reasoning, which seems very tactical given the timing and context.   I tend to think that CONCACAF and CSA would see CPL as the prefect vehicle to fulfill that role (of providing a place for emerging player loans for those above USL2 level but below MLS level).  If they see things that way, it doesn't really strengthen the "exceptional circumstances" argument.  

[Keegan]

Wow, no one saw this coming... ?

[SpursFlu]

Squirrel Master to the rescue 

[matty]

14 hours ago, Ansem said:

I would say that will hardly make a difference in CONCACAF and CSA minds. They already showed that they no longer support the rationale. TFC having a deal with them instead of Montreal doesn't change anything.

probably doesn't but it could make pushing them into cpl a bit more risky short term (aka 2022 wcq) if it's clear mls teams don't see cpl as loan appropriate for development, which only really matters for out of window stuff. it's pretty minor major but could see that being in offc angle.

[Ansem]

Seems obvious that CANMNT calls up will mainly be Tier 1 oversea, MLS and CPL. USL will definitely be cut out. This should be added incentives for Canadians to seek CPL ahead of USL unless they are in one of the 3 Canadian MLS teams.

This Ottawa affiliation thing will die off after next season and Canadians will see it as a dead end. With 2026 being partly in Canada, I'd say that once that message got accross, most players won't risk drop off the CANMNT radar to join USL.

Thomas spent the previous two seasons with the Charleston Battery of the USL. He appeared  in 47 games over those years. But, while he was getting regular playing time, he felt that he’d become a bit lost when it came to national team selection.

“There are just so many teams in USL,” he explained. “Half the teams we don’t even play. And there are so many players — so, yes, you can get lost.

Meanwhile, Thomas is looking forward to playing in a league where all the teams will get to know each other pretty well, unlike USL.

[JamboAl]

Well, I would argue that if the CMNT is a strong enough squad (and for the foreseeable future), if no one in USL should be considered for selection, then no one in CPL should either.

[Ansem]

35 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Well, I would argue that if the CMNT is a strong enough squad (and for the foreseeable future), if no one in USL should be considered for selection, then no one in CPL should either.

It's heresy to think that the CSA would prioritize it's own league above USL.

CPL makes sense also due to what Thomas also brought up, CHEMISTRY.

In CPL, players will know each other more, will be way more used to one another while I'm sure Herdman and CPL coach will have a communication channel making it easier to coordinate. 

That's a massive advantage over USL. No CPL won't produce "super stars" in short to medium term but it can help produce those depth players capable of supporting our best players from top leagues.

Right now, our depth players aren't even getting minutes. CPL will provide an upgrade there. Players getting lots of minutes, capable of executing the coach strategy.

Got to see past the marginal level of play difference between those 2 leagues. 

This could end up becoming an advantage to play in CPL than be on an MLS bench as well.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ansem

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

I think the national team will favour CPL. Not for the reason of "supporting the local league". The reason being the CPL will probably have more younger talented players generally speaking. Just because the talented young players will be funneled into CPL now over the USL. For that reason, Herdman will likely keep a close eye on the CPL. We probably won't see anything yet, but a couple years down the road we might. Hopefully some young players tear up the league and get some attention.

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

It's heresy to think that the CSA would prioritize it's own league above USL.

CPL makes sense also due to what Thomas also brought up, CHEMISTRY.

In CPL, players will know each other more, will be way more used to one another while I'm sure Herdman and CPL coach will have a communication channel making it easier to coordinate. 

That's a massive advantage over USL. No CPL won't produce "super stars" in short to medium term but it can help produce those depth players capable of supporting our best players from top leagues.

Right now, our depth players aren't even getting minutes. CPL will provide an upgrade there. Players getting lots of minutes, capable of executing the coach strategy.

Got to see past the marginal level of play difference between those 2 leagues. 

This could end up becoming an advantage to play in CPL than be on an MLS bench as well.

The heresy is mostly these forums and Twitter users.

I don't disagree CPL will eventually be favoured but the current signings don't point to it being a hot spot for MNT players (none of the capped guys have been called up in the last 12 months, most since like early 2017/late 2016) over USL MLS loanees in the short term.

Edited January 5, 2019 by matty

[1996]

Like I mentioned it’s all about money, if and that’s a big if a USL team offers someone a lot more money to play for their team than a CPL team most likely that player will pick a USL team, however , if it’s not that much of a difference than yes a player will probably pick the CPL because has a better chance to be seen by the national team. In terms of sitting on the bench of an MLS team and playing on a CPL team again unless the CPL team is going to pay more for that player than the MLS team than he will most likely take the money and sit on the bench and also he will already be in the MLS training with higher quality players . Therefore if a player is already in the MLS regardless if he is getting a lot of minutes he will most likely be staying in the MLS and trying to get more minutes .

Edited January 5, 2019 by 1996

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, matty said:

The heresy is mostly these forums and Twitter users.

I don't disagree CPL will eventually be favoured but the current signings don't point to it being a hot spot for MNT players (none of the capped guys have been called up in the last 12 months) over USL MLS loanees in the short term.

Favored over USL, not over everyone else

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Favored over USL, not over everyone else

yea i know, i'm talking about usl vs cpl at the moment

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

Like I mentioned it’s all about money, if and that’s a big if a USL team offers someone a lot more money to play for their team than a CPL team most likely that player will pick a USL team, however , if it’s not that much of a difference than yes a player will probably pick the CPL because has a better chance to be seen by the national team. In terms of sitting on the bench of an MLS team and playing on a CPL team again unless the CPL team is going to pay more for that player than the MLS team than he will most likely take the money and sit on the bench and also he will already be in the MLS training with higher quality players . Therefore if a player is already in the MLS regardless if he is getting a lot of minutes he will most likely be staying in the MLS and trying to get more minutes .

The more you play, the more you're seen. That was my point and players are aware of it.

This is even more important now that Canada are going to 2026. Without it, I'm sure the money factor would be heavier than in this special circumstances. 

I'm pretty sure that's it's a selling point being used by CPL to get guys home.

It's not like Haber can't be signed in Europe but playing limited limits won't help him either at a higher level while here, hes guaranteed to start and get all the minutes/opportunities to impress Herdman.

That's the point I was making

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, matty said:

yea i know, i'm talking about usl vs cpl at the moment

I'm obviously talking short term, not necessarily immediately 

[Sébastien]

This whole line of argument of CPL vs USL for a CMNT cap is awful.

The coach should be choosing whatever players he believes give the squad the best chance of winning. Period. Whether they are in CPL, USL or Romanian 2nd division.

If the CSA steps in and interferes to say that the coach must select player X over player Y, we should all criticize it. Strongly.

We've all been glad to see that politics have been removed from squad selection (or at least looks like coaches have been given the needed freedom). Can't understand why anyone would want to see it return.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

This whole line of argument of CPL vs USL for a CMNT cap is awful.

The coach should be choosing whatever players he believes give the squad the best chance of winning. Period. Whether they are in CPL, USL or Romanian 2nd division.

If the CSA steps in and interferes to say that the coach must select player X over player Y, we should all criticize it. Strongly.

We've all been glad to see that politics have been removed from squad selection (or at least looks like coaches have been given the needed freedom). Can't understand why anyone would want to see it return.

I think it's because people are pissed OFFC ruined their utopian vision of the CPL and want it harmed lol

Edited January 5, 2019 by matty

[1996]

Well there are Canadians that played in the USL last season will be interesting to see how many leave the USL to play in the CPL .There are so many reasons a guy might want to stay in the USL I don’t think it will always be so straight forward why a guy might stay .

Edited January 5, 2019 by 1996