Ottawa CPL Club

[Gopherbashi]

10 minutes ago, matty said:

Who's looking forward to the new yearly holiday tradition of a legal battle/game of chicken between Fury vs CSA/CONCACAF and maybe CPL?

I, for one, can't wait to rehash this all next year.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The tweet doesn't really make any sense given it was CONCACAF that gave the permission last week rather than the CSA. The CSA gave their approval on sanctioning back in September or October.

Seems like a warning that they won't the next time around and that the "blindside" excuse won't work this time around.

The sanctioning bodies have all the tools to enforce their rules. 

This is it for them.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Don't doubt the pressure for them to move will continue behind the scenes and this somewhat strange tweet may well be a part of that, but think it was obvious that the Fury are not going to meekly comply and do have avenues such as the CAS that they can pursue to fight it.

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Seems like a warning that they won't the next time around and that the "blindside" excuse won't work this time around.

The sanctioning bodies have all the tools to enforce their rules. 

This is it for them.

1) Yes they have the rights to enforce their rules but they also have to follw rules and as this didn't go to the CAS there's still very much a chance there is/will be justification for "exceptional circumstances" favouring Fury.
2) The CSA making this statement to the Fury at the time would likely result in more court stuff right away and press leaks to Fury friendly media right away. I don't believe it went the way this Tweet claims.
3) If the CSA are doing a join or die thing this early, when there is so much up in the air about the CPL's level of play, they're kinda fucking jackasses. The Fury closing up shop in the middle of 2022 WCQ would be awful and there is sizable risk.

Edited December 28, 2018 by matty

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, matty said:

1) Yes they have the rights to enforce their rules but they also have to follw rules and as this didn't go to the CAS there's still very much a chance there is/will be justification for "exceptional circumstances" favouring Fury.
2) The CSA making this statement to the Fury at the time would likely result in more court stuff right away and press leaks to Fury friendly media right away. I don't believe it went the way this Tweet claims.
3) If the CSA are doing a join or die thing this early, when there is so much up in the air about the CPL's level of play, they're kinda fucking jackasses. The Fury closing up shop in the middle of 2022 WCQ would be awful and there is sizable risk.

Sanctioning is a privilege, not a right. They signed on knowing all of the rules ahead of time and were told ahead of time of this scenario. This falls flat in conventional courts which would trigger immediate desanction from FIFA which would prompt USL to exclude them.

As for the CAS, them making a case for the exceptional clause is reaching at best. They arent FC Cincinnati so they can argue the level of play, they could barely keep up themselves, it's not like CPL signatures looks that low in comparison so far. CAS would be creating a massive precedent which would impact the entire FIFA to rule for the Fury. I just don't see that happening and expect the full might of FIFA to stop them. Besides, the PDL teams couldn't stop the same scenario, Fury aren't any different in comparison.

I wish them good luck and that they make the right decision, however, this needs to end and they must fall back in line. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ansem

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Sanctioning is a privilege, not a right. They signed on knowing all of the rules ahead of time and were told ahead of time of this scenario. This falls flat in conventional courts which would trigger immediate desanction from FIFA.

As for the CAS, them making a case for the exceptional clause is reaching at best. They arent FC Cincinnati so they can argue the level of play, they could barely keep up themselves, it's not like CPL signatures looks that low in comparison so far. CAS would be creating a massive precedent which would impact the entire FIFA to rule for the Fury. I just don't see that happening.

I wish them good luck and that they make the right decision, however, this needs to end and they need to fall back in line.

Ummmmm what? How is them making the case for exceptional circumstances a reach? You don't fucking know what meets FIFA ground for an exceptional circumstance as it isn't clear. A UCLA law prof looked at it and found it is very case by case. For all we know the CPL business plan is the exceptional circumstance and that would be enough for the CAS to favour Fury. Is this unlikely? Maybe I don't know you don't know. We're not fucking experts and it seems like even experts are currently unsure what meets the criteria so don't act like this can't happen.

Also the CPL doesn't look low because it hasn't kicked a ball. Don't say the level of play issue an issue until you actually know what the level of play is.

This needs to end but it needs to end right.

[Ansem]

40 minutes ago, matty said:

Ummmmm what? How is them making the case for exceptional circumstances a reach? You don't fucking know what meets FIFA ground for an exceptional circumstance as it isn't clear. A UCLA law prof looked at it and found it is very case by case. For all we know the CPL business plan is the exceptional circumstance and that would be enough for the CAS to favour Fury. Is this unlikely? Maybe I don't know you don't know. We're not fucking experts and it seems like even experts are currently unsure what meets the criteria so don't act like this can't happen.

1) Language

2) I clearly pointed out the ramifications of a ruling in favor of the Fury. There are lots of legal cases involving going to court to challenge the way a league manages itself. Leagues and sports organizations rarely lose on that front. They have the right to manage themselves as long as they aren't breaking any laws. Courts shy away from creating precedents by ruling in those leagues/sports organizations affairs.

So 

A) Please, point out which law FIFA is breaking by enforcing it's own rules that the Fury agreed ahead of time to conform to 

B )A ruling for the Fury opens pandora box. It creates a MASSIVE precedent and the ruling could be used as jurisprudence by other clubs around the world wanting to compete in other country's leagues bypassing sanctioning bodies. Those clubs would flock the courts to get similar ruling. Courts are very aware of the consequences of such rulings.

C) Also, you're asking a court to rule on what constitutes "Exceptional circumstances" and to fill the blanks left on purpose by FIFA so they have discretionary last say on it, which isn't breaking any laws. How can the CAS determine what constitutes "Exceptional circumstances"? What expertise do they have to decide that? This is exactly the kind of ramifications that courts avoids like the plague. If it went that far, which I doubt, FIFA will through all it's might to fight it. Seriously, just NO. People need to stop thinking of courts as the "shit disturbers" they aren't. FIFA has been relatively stable for decades, it's not knowing the courts to assume they will just shake everything "just because"... for the Ottawa Fury from Canada in the USL of all clubs... if it was Real Madrid or Manchester United....ugh....

D) The Fury threatening to go to CAS was to seek an injunction for 2019, not to argue the "Exceptional Clause". They raised that issue after. Why not before all of this? That's how you know it's all smokescreen.

E) Experts.... yeah, I'd like more international opinions on this than US experts that are biased by their "Murica beats everything else" when there are examples of courts not wanting to rule on their own US sports leagues affairs. But somehow, this doesn't apply to FIFA... lol... we'll see.

40 minutes ago, matty said:

Also the CPL doesn't look low because it hasn't kicked a ball. Don't say the level of play issue an issue until you actually know what the level of play is.

We'll all know at the end of the 2019 season. It doesn't even need to be equal or above. Ballpark would suffice to kill their case.

40 minutes ago, matty said:

This needs to end but it needs to end right.

Yes it does, by doing what they are being told and stop whining about the rules not being in their favor this time around. 

Or they can campaign to Don Garber to get into MLS... which won't happen. If the big 3 REALLY wants to help themselves and the Fury, lobby Garber to let Ottawa in, I'll be the 1st one being super happy for them and move on.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ansem

[matty]

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

1) Language

Are you fucking serious with this shit? Who cares about the word fucking on the V boards? This isn't court or an academic paper. We're having a casual discussion on a site where people have talked shit for years. If swearing bugs you this much then you might not want to explore this site anymore.

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A) Please, point out which law FIFA is breaking by enforcing it's own rules that the Fury agreed ahead of time to conform to 

CONCACAF/CSA might not be breaking any FIFA rules but they might be. They've allowed various reasons is the passed for granting permission for teams to play in leagues outside their own borders and denying Fury could damage the reasons given to allow other teams into other leagues. Like you've mentioned in your next point pandora's box could open.

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

B )A ruling for the Fury opens pandora box. It creates a precedent and the ruling could be used as jurisprudence by other clubs around the world wanting to compete in other country's leagues bypassing sanctioning bodies. Also, you're asking a court to rule on what constitutes "Exceptional circumstances" and asking them to tell FIFA how to conduct their affairs. This is exactly the kind of ramifications that courts avoids like the plague. If it went that far, which I doubt, FIFA will through all it's might to fight it. 

The Fury threatening to go to CAS was to seek an injunction for 2019, not to argue the "Exceptional Clause". They raised that issue after. Why not before all of this? That's how you know it's all smokescreen.

Yes it might but FIFA itself agreed to that by making the CAS its court for shit like this. CAS would likely ask FIFA to create a clearer guideline while making a temp ruling until that is done.....or FIFA could just ignore it, some organization do.

FIFA might also throw CONCACAF under the bus too and grant Fury approval because this shit is such a small matter that they don't wanna deal with it. You never know.

They were also seeking said injunction because CONCACAF (not FIFA, you keep saying FIFA but this shit doesn't go that high yet) claimed they were going to deny them playing in 2019 because they didn't see need for the exceptional clause, which CONCACAF acknowledged. That issue would def of come up at CAS. The when does not matter, the fact it was part of the issue does.

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We'll all know at the end of the 2019 season. It doesn't even need to be equal or above. Ballpark would suffice to kill their case.

Yeah, I'm not denying any of that at all. If the CPL is even USL league 2 in level of play that's probably enough to kill the level of play argument dead. I'm saying were a year away (probably less) from knowing and that makes making such claims stupid from both us and the CSA.

I'd also note that it might not kill their case if level of play is part of a number of factors. Money has been brought up a lot as an issue for the Fury and that could very well be a factor.

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

C) Experts.... yeah, I'd like more international opinions on this than experts that are biased by their "Murica beats everything" when there are examples of courts not wanting to rule on their own US sports leagues affairs. But somehow, this doesn't apply to FIFA... lol... we'll see.

Dude an expert is an expert. Who gives a fuck where he's from if he's giving his opinion on his subject? He's a) a soccer guy b) a law professor and c) gave the FIFA rule a look and looked into examples of when exceptions have been applied and why. Do just dismiss him because "HA American" and assuming he's biased on this because of that really is fucking dumb.

It's fine to want more opinions but just dismiss his because USA.

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Yes it does, by doing what they are being told and stop whining about the rules not being in their favor this time around. 

Or they can campaign to Don Garber to get into MLS... which won't happen. If the big 3 REALLY wants to help themselves and the Fury, lobby Garber to let Ottawa in, I'll be the 1st one being super happy for them and move on.

Dude first again the rules could very well be in their favour should they go to CAS (I really hope this doesn't go to CAS for an actual ruling, that could be bad for Canadian soccer).

Second, please just hope that in the next 12 months both parties come to the proper terms and stop fantasizing about the Fury getting bitchified.

Either way I think the convo is going to turn pointless as neither of us knows enough about FIFA law, general law, CAS, all sides arguments or have access to a time machine to see CPL level of play. Let's leave this.

Edited December 28, 2018 by matty

[Ansem]

28 minutes ago, matty said:

If might not be breaking any rules but they might be. They've allowed various reasons is the passed for granting permission for teams to play in leagues outside their own borders and denying Fury could damage the reasons given to allow other teams into other leagues. Like you've mentioned in your next point pandora's box could open.

They've been pretty consistent on that end. It's a steep hill to climb for the Fury. 

28 minutes ago, matty said:

Yes it might but FIFA itself agreed to that by making the CAS its court for shit like this. CAS would likely ask FIFA to create a clearer guideline while making a temp ruling until that is done.....or FIFA could just ignore it, some organization do.

Perhaps, but like you said, I doubt FIFA let's anyone tell them how to do business, not with what's a stake here.

28 minutes ago, matty said:

FIFA might also throw CONCACAF under the bus too. You never know.

Over the Ottawa Fury? Did I miss something or is everyone talking about them like they are the new Real Madrid?

28 minutes ago, matty said:

They were also seeking said injunction because CONCACAF (not FIFA) claimed they were going to deny them playing in 2019 because they didn't see need for the exceptional clause, which CONCACAF acknowledged. That issue would def of come up at CAS. The when does not matter, the fact it was part of the issue does.

A lot had to do with timing and "he said, she said". CONCACAF statements and play was to put the cards on the table. Every party knows where they stand and what's up for 2020. The same excuses won't work next time. They either submit to sanctioning bodies or take it to the next level at their own risks.

28 minutes ago, matty said:

Yeah, I'm not denying any of that at all. If the CPL is even USL league 2 in level of play that's probably enough to kill the level of play argument dead. I'm saying were a year away (probably less) from knowing and that makes making such claims stupid from both us and the CSA.

I'd also note that it might not kill their case if level of play is part of a number of factors. Money has been brought up a lot as an issue for the Fury and that could very well be a factor.

The "Exceptional Clause" is at FIFA discretion and seems to be on a case by case thing. They've been fairly consistent over the decades and that can only strengthen their position. 

They are simply arguing that if an equivalent league exists (which it will be in this case), Fury can't be in USSF. FIFA has been fairly consistent in their approach on that. Equivalent leaves a lot to interpretation and the CAS isn't better equipped than FIFA to rule on that either. That's why I think they will not want to do that. 

Seriously, it won't even go there.

28 minutes ago, matty said:

Dude and expert is an expert. Who gives a fuck where he's from if he's giving his opinion on his subject? He's a) a soccer guy b) a law professor and c) gave the FIFA rule a look and looked into examples of when exceptions have been applied and why. Do just dismiss him because "HA American" and assuming he's biased on this because of that really is fucking dumb.

FIFA isn't an American league or entity. You're getting opinions from US law experts biased to their US legal system and US league... damn right it matters if more international legal experts gave their opinions.

Which brings me to my next point. THEY AREN'T EVEN BOTHERING TO GIVE ONE.

This case, if it went the Fury way, could open Pandora Box in UEFA with talks about teams wanting to form their own super leagues and clubs that could seek to join other leagues which would be easy due to proximity. You think such a case would attract more attention but it doesn't. IF the Fury push it to CAS, it would be a fool's errand. Won't go anywhere.

28 minutes ago, matty said:

Second, please just hope that in the next 12 months both parties come to the proper terms and stop fantasizing about the Fury getting bitchified.

You're hilarious. I just don't want CSL 2.0 and one of the things that sank that league was ownership not being on the same page and infighting.

Canadian soccer and CPL is bigger than OSEG. So yeah, they can get in line of get the fuck out the way. We only get one shot at this league and we don't need disgruntled owners fucking shit from the inside out

*using your language. Not really that angry, I know they won't win this

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ansem

[baulderdash77]

In court cases, sufficient notice can get you a lot of leeway.  Especially if your in a position of power and your unilaterally changing the conditions or terms of a contract.

I think extending sanctioning by 1 year and giving notice will go a long way to minimizing damages and strengthening the case for the CSA.

It will also give some time to address the Fury’s assertion of risk from a new startup venture.

If the CanPL season goes well, and sufficient notice has been given it will be nearly impossible for the Fury to fight this further.  It’s a good compromise by CONCACAF and shows leeway was given but the Fury are undoubtedly on formal notice now without any substantive case.

[matty]

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

Over the Ottawa Fury? Did I miss something or is everyone talking about them like they are the new Real Madrid?

I cleared this up in an edit I think you would agree with

8 hours ago, matty said:

FIFA might also throw CONCACAF under the bus too and grant Fury approval because this shit is such a small matter that they don't wanna deal with it. You never know.

 

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

A lot had to do with timing and "he said, she said". CONCACAF statements and play was to put the cards on the table. Every party knows where they stand and what's up for 2020. The same excuses won't work next time. They either submit to sanctioning bodies or take it to the next level at their own risks.

Why would you put your cards on the table a year early? Yes that could be a bold move to make a point but it could also like result in a defeat if they have a year to research and make a case against you. I'm sorry but I do disagree on this point. You might like it but it's not a good legal play if the goal is 2020 and Fury really don't wanna join.

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

FIFA isn't an American league or entity. You're getting opinions from US law experts biased to their US legal system and US league... damn right it matters if more international legal experts gave their opinions.

Which brings me to my next point. THEY AREN'T EVEN BOTHERING TO GIVE ONE.

Yes it's not but he's a dude who writes about matters relating to the USSF and MLS and teaches classes on international sports law and law relating to soccer at a major university. His nationally doesn't erase the fact he's studied FIFA guidelines. I would say he's probably more qualifed to talk on this issue than you, me, probably everyone on here, most journalist who have covered the story.

Like come on man.

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

This case, if it went the Fury way, could open Pandora Box in UEFA with talks about teams wanting to form their own super leagues and clubs that could seek to join other leagues which would be easy due to proximity. You think such a case would attract more attention but it doesn't. IF the Fury push it to CAS, it would be a fool's errand. Won't go anywhere.

As we've discussed a ruling on this could open that box if it goes either way in court but I don't think it ever will go because I think both parties are actually playing chicken.

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

You're hilarious. I just don't want CSL 2.0 and one of the things that sank that league was ownership not being on the same page and infighting.

Canadian soccer and CPL is bigger than OSEG. So yeah, they can get in line of get the fuck out the way. We only get one shot at this league and we don't need disgruntled owners fucking shit from the inside out

*using your language. Not really that angry, I know they won't win this

I fully agree but I also don't want Canada to be crippled in 2022 or the CPL having an ownership group that is disgruntled cause it doesn't want to be there possibly fucking with important league matters. I don't think them being there in 2020 should be an obsession because there are bigger things to deal with like getting a TV deal for CPL or establishing D3 west coast for CSA.

Also don't think this needs to be a matter of winning but a matter of coming to terms that work for everyone like they did for FCE

Edited December 28, 2018 by matty

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, matty said:

I fully agree but I also don't want Canada to be crippled in 2022 or the CPL having an ownership group that is disgruntled cause it doesn't want to be there possibly fucking with important league matters. I don't think them being there in 2020 should be an obsession because there are bigger things to deal with like getting a TV deal for CPL or establishing D3 west coast for CSA

The problem with the Fury is that they publicly said that they would refuse to join even if they were told to.

As a business, CPL can't really be expected to sit around and wait for the Fury to come around. The heart of the issue is that everyone keep speculating on when they might come around or to give them more time. What if they NEVER want to join? What then? We stay out of Ottawa until we convince them? CPL being shut out of Canada's 5th biggest market is an unnecessary obstacle to the league's growth that cant be expected to stand. It's the nation's capital of a national league. People need to understand that they are unwilling to give any timetable. That's very unreasonable to expect CPL or any sanctioning bodies to accept that. So the decision is being made for them. Canadian soccer is bigger than that ownership. 

If they don't want to join, that's their prerogative but I cringe whenever they talk about what's best for Canadian soccer... it's really about the monopoly on Ottawa and how they are doing everything to not let go of it. Let's be honest here.

 

[matty]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The problem with the Fury is that they publicly said that they would refuse to join even if they were told to.

As a business, CPL can't really be expected to sit around and wait for the Fury to come around. The heart of the issue is that everyone keep speculating on when they might come around or to give them more time. What if they NEVER want to join? What then? We stay out of Ottawa until we convince them? CPL being shut out of Canada's 5th biggest market is an unnecessary obstacle to the league's growth that cant be expected to stand. It's the nation's capital of a national league. People need to understand that they are unwilling to give any timetable. That's very unreasonable to expect CPL or any sanctioning bodies to accept that. So the decision is being made for them. Canadian soccer is bigger than that ownership. 

If they don't want to join, that's their prerogative but I cringe whenever they talk about what's best for Canadian soccer... it's really about the monopoly on Ottawa and how they are doing everything to not let go of it. Let's be honest here.

 

I largely agree here Ottawa is a fickle issue because while CPL is the best development tool Canada has for the future, there is a lot of uncertainty about how it will factor into to both 2022 and even to some extent 2026, both of which could/will also do wonders for the program.

The CSA and CPL do need to be careful with it as they are dealing with a group that reportedly wants out of soccer and still would control the best stadium option in the city who might have very negative feelings towards both parties. Losing the only team we know MLS teams will work with for sure could be bad for the CanMNT program and that could very well deny CPL access to the stadium and hurt getting a team into the market in time to help with 2026 (yes money talks but groups and businesses sometimes do do things out of spite) and maybe delay growth in the area.

The timetable thing isn't that big a deal at the moment (which it's likely CSA knows) BUT that doesn't mean it won't be in 6 months (which I think the Fury know) so I except to hear more official stuff after the Gold Cup and think the crap being said about CSA telling them "next year this isn't an option" now is kind of redic.

I get why you cringe and agree but make no mistake they do currently (and for how long is unknown) have importance to Canadian soccer and everyone involved knows it.

Edited December 28, 2018 by matty

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

In court cases, sufficient notice can get you a lot of leeway.  Especially if your in a position of power and your unilaterally changing the conditions or terms of a contract.

I think extending sanctioning by 1 year and giving notice will go a long way to minimizing damages and strengthening the case for the CSA.

It will also give some time to address the Fury’s assertion of risk from a new startup venture.

If the CanPL season goes well, and sufficient notice has been given it will be nearly impossible for the Fury to fight this further.  It’s a good compromise by CONCACAF and shows leeway was given but the Fury are undoubtedly on formal notice now without any substantive case.

This is, as I see it, the most reasonable interpretation. 

I personally do not fully understand why the MLS clubs are sanctioned, or why teams in NZ play in the Aussie league. For me, there do seem to be precedents to allow a team in Canada to play in a US league. So I recognize that legally, I find Ottawa has a decent argument. But that case might be countered by the statements and intent expressed by the CSA and Concacaf these recent months. If the CAS were to decide they were being merely arbitrary, I could see Ottawa having a case even next year. 

So why is the restriction on Fury not arbitrary (however much I agree with it)?

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Earlier information from Tony Marinaro suggests there has been a shifting of the goalposts on his preferred narrative and very much casts doubt on the veracity of the information he has been receiving:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianPL/comments/a5zlyh/tony_marinaro_tsn_reporter_based_on_information_i/

Edited December 28, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Initial B]

On 12/22/2018 at 11:31 AM, Ansem said:

And they shutdown their academy... 

I need to comment on this. Yes, they shut down their academy, but in it's place they have their Fury In Training (FIT) program. Rather than taking players from existing teams, they are offering additional training to supplement training kids are currently getting on their teams. Now, most of the elite teams in Ottawa are already practice 3-4 times a week in addition to their league game, but there are some smaller clubs in the region that don't have the resources for that training tempo. The Fury offer good players from those types of clubs a chance to develop at a faster pace, but they have to pass a tryout first.

My son has been practicing this year with the Fury Goalkeepers and GK coach. He's learned a lot from their tutelage. With TFC moving into the region by affiliating with an east-end club and rebranding themselves as "Ottawa TFC", the Fury need to be careful they don't alienate the existing clubs by appearing to poach their talent.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Initial B

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Ottawa Fury had already alienated the local clubs way back when they had teams in PDL and the USL Y league.    The shut down of their academy was more of a financial decision by OSEG.   

 

[1996]

34 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I need to comment on this. Yes, they shut down their academy, but in it's place they have their Fury In Training (FIT) program. Rather than taking players from existing teams, they are offering additional training to supplement training kids are currently getting on their teams. Now, most of the elite teams in Ottawa are already practice 3-4 times a week in addition to their league game, but there are some smaller clubs in the region that don't have the resources for that training tempo. The Fury offer good players from those types of clubs a chance to develop at a faster pace, but they have to pass a tryout first.

My son has been practicing this year with the Fury Goalkeepers and GK coach. He's learned a lot from their tutelage. With TFC moving into the region by affiliating with an east-end club and rebranding themselves as "Ottawa TFC", the Fury need to be careful they don't alienate the existing clubs by appearing to poach their talent.

As much as I think that Ottawa should be in the CPL from the start and their decision to play in the USL makes no sense and I’m still thinking there has to be more to this story , I’m not going to make comments about things like their academy without knowing the whole story, moreover, as someone who has been involved in youth soccer in Canada for many years I say that people on here not involved in youth soccer really have no idea about the the intricacies and what really goes on in the whole youth soccer set up. You really have to live it day in day out to really get a real understanding of how it all works. Therefore , to just say that Ottawa shut down their academy as a slight against this organization expecially from some people who are not involved in the youth game or have ever been involved in the youth game makes no sense. Moreover, as you have showed it looks like Ottawa for now has taken a different approach for the time being in terms of developing up and coming youth players, but I agree in the future they would need to get back to something close to running their own academy again and hopefully something like TFC’s academy which is not a pay to play scenario.

[dyslexic nam]

10 hours ago, matty said:

I largely agree here Ottawa is a fickle issue because while CPL is the best development tool Canada has for the future, there is a lot of uncertainty about how it will factor into to both 2022 and even to some extent 2026, both of which could/will also do wonders for the program.

The CSA and CPL do need to be careful with it as they are dealing with a group that reportedly wants out of soccer and still would control the best stadium option in the city who might have very negative feelings towards both parties. Losing the only team we know MLS teams will work with for sure could be bad for the CanMNT program and that could very well deny CPL access to the stadium and hurt getting a team into the market in time to help with 2026 (yes money talks but groups and businesses sometimes do do things out of spite) and maybe delay growth in the area.

The timetable thing isn't that big a deal at the moment (which it's likely CSA knows) BUT that doesn't mean it won't be in 6 months (which I think the Fury know) so I except to hear more official stuff after the Gold Cup and think the crap being said about CSA telling them "next year this isn't an option" now is kind of redic.

I get why you cringe and agree but make no mistake they do currently (and for how long is unknown) have importance to Canadian soccer and everyone involved knows it.

I tend to view the bolded a bit differently.  If anything, I think this is a reason to give Fury an ultimatum.  Putting them in a position where they can enable MLS teams to boycott CPL is not something I see as a positive.  Again, I see it as a long view versus short view issue.  In the short term it may help with fringe MLS player development, but long term it facilitates MLS undermining CPL by not only snubbing it for player loans but also by strengthening the lone holdout in a US league.  To me, there are far more negatives involved than positives.

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by dyslexic nam

[Ottawafan74]

3 hours ago, 1996 said:

As much as I think that Ottawa should be in the CPL from the start and their decision to play in the USL makes no sense and I’m still thinking there has to be more to this story , I’m not going to make comments about things like their academy without knowing the whole story, moreover, as someone who has been involved in youth soccer in Canada for many years I say that people on here not involved in youth soccer really have no idea about the the intricacies and what really goes on in the whole youth soccer set up. You really have to live it day in day out to really get a real understanding of how it all works. Therefore , to just say that Ottawa shut down their academy as a slight against this organization expecially from some people who are not involved in the youth game or have ever been involved in the youth game makes no sense. Moreover, as you have showed it looks like Ottawa for now has taken a different approach for the time being in terms of developing up and coming youth players, but I agree in the future they would need to get back to something close to running their own academy again and hopefully something like TFC’s academy which is not a pay to play scenario.

Agree 100%. OSEG and their involvement with the Fury came after the Fury had established their name in the local market. The perception was not a good one amongst the local clubs. The relationship between the bigger clubs and the Fury was non existent as they were directly competing against each other for players. The way the EODSA, ERSL and the Fury went about their business had and will continue to have repercussions on any potential youth program for the club. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ottawafan74

[SpursFlu]

1 year to get it together Ottawa. Canada needs the Ottawa market and the soccer fans of Ottawa to make the CPL work to its potential. Join the party, you won't regret it.

Edited December 28, 2018 by SpursFlu

[matty]

5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I tend to view the bolded a bit differently.  If anything, I think this is a reason to give Fury an ultimatum.  Putting them in a position where they can enable MLS teams to boycott CPL is not something I see as a positive.  Again, I see it as a long view versus short view issue.  In the short term it may help with fringe MLS player development, but long term it facilitates MLS undermining CPL by not only snubbing it for player loans but also by strengthening the lone holdout in a US league.  To me, there are far more negatives involved than positives.

 

I don't think it undermines CPL long term at all with the new USL league system (Fury lose being the idea place for 20 year olds) and the advantage of closer places for out of windows loans will be too much for Toronto and Vancouver Whitecaps to pass up (Impact being partners with OFFC and there being no Quebec CPL caution are why I don't mention them). Fury's MLS advantage is pretty short term, less than 5 seasons I would guess, but it's still in that 2022 qualification window.

Edited December 28, 2018 by matty

[CDNFootballer]

2 hours ago, matty said:

I don't think it undermines CPL long term at all with the new USL league system (Fury lose being the idea place for 20 year olds) and the advantage of closer places for out of windows loans will be too much for Toronto and Vancouver Whitecaps to pass up (Impact being partners with OFFC and there being no Quebec CPL caution are why I don't mention them). Fury's MLS advantage is pretty short term, less than 5 seasons I would guess, but it's still in that 2022 qualification window.

What new USL league system? They put some lipstick on a pig with the name changes of their D2, D3 and amateur PDL but what new league system are you referring to?

[matty]

21 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

What new USL league system? They put some lipstick on a pig with the name changes of their D2, D3 and amateur PDL but what new league system are you referring to?

Well one is MLS B-Teams with teams that have some cash, another has USL B-teams and has noticeably less money involved, and the 3rd is just rebranded PDL as you said. So they did a little more than throw lipstick on a pig.

Edited December 29, 2018 by matty

[CDNFootballer]

15 minutes ago, matty said:

Well one is MLS B-Teams with teams that have some cash, another has USL B-teams and has noticeably less money involved, and the 3rd is just rebranded PDL as you said. So they did a little more than throw lipstick on a pig.

USL D2 has had MLS reserve/B teams and affiliates for years. The new USL D3 has a few B teams that moved down.

Guess you were referrng to USL starting the D3 for 2019 they've been planning for a while? No real systematic changes.