Ottawa CPL Club

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fortunately for CPL, 95% of fans could not give a rat's ass about the Fury or its woes. It absolutely cannot affect the CPL in any significant way. Otherwise, answer this:

How many potential CPL fans have now said they won't buy season tix, or single game tix, or support their team at all, because of what is going on with Ottawa Fury?

Or further: how many potential CPL fans have decided to not support the league because there will be an unbalanced schedule with one team sitting out each match day?

Can anyone seriously imagine a major contingent of very demanding fans in Halifax or Edmonton sitting out CPL because of such concerns? Or even one, single person?

God had an easier time picking out the righteous in Sodom than we have picking out disaffected CPL fans because of Ottawa Fury.

 

I agree that it will have little impact on the other CPL teams generally.  For me, it is more the unfortunate implication of what this sort of escalation means for pro footy in Ottawa.  After recent events, the Fury to CPL seems to be a closed door.  I don't see how you could have a productive business relationship after these sorts of claims (assuming that Fury folks are the poorly referenced sources in the article).  And insofar as I don't think the Fury have any realistic chance of winning their case against CONCACAF (aside from possibly getting a one year extension) it seems very likely that:

• The Fury will play at most one more year of pro footy in that city
• Their ownership group may seek to obstruct the emergence of a new CPL team in that market (if the account of their influence over the Ottawa infrastructure is accurate)
• And thus, the fallout from this conflict may prevent CPL from gaining traction in that market for a few years.

 

[JamboAl]

The situation in Ottawa should have absolutely no effect on the supporters in other cities.  If anything, not having a team in Toronto proper, Montreal and Vancouver may be more of an obstacle. 

My only other comment is that the Ottawa Sun are a mouthpiece for the Ottawa Fury (when they actually give the team attention).  Even then, I think it’s utterly irresponsible for the accusations being made and the commentary from the writer to be published as fact.  It only increases the polarization, which is not helpful. 

[Keegan]

Call me crazy but I think this fiasco is actually good for CanPL.  Signing the players we are signing isn’t going to grab national headlines and there really hasn’t been a big headline since the teams were announced.  But whoa FIFA/CONCACAF is forcing a Canadian team to join this league through an arbitration l in Switzerland - what’s going on here?! If this was basketball I’d still be interested. 

I feel if you read about this and then did some quick Wikipedia research having maybe never or briefly heard about CPL you would at least be interested.  Btw, the league and club Wikipedia’s are really well done - very professional.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Keegan

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The reason it is damaging is that having an ownership group go to these lengths to try to avoid being part of the league calls into serious question whether the league was a good idea in the first place.

Bear in mind that this was originally supposed to be a CFL oriented league in ownership terms and we now have one CFL ownership group going to the CAS in Geneva to try to stay in the USL Championship instead and another apparently still allowed to have a team at USL League One level after not being allowed in. Confused, you will be after this week's episode of Soap?

It's not at all clear why any Canadian team should be allowed into USSF leagues under FIFA statutes at this point if CanPL is what the CSA claim it is in terms of being a fully pro D1, and why the Fury would be singled out for non-sanctioning other than Victor Montagliani doing this on a whim to bolster his pet project.

Why is Canada still allowed to have its cake and eat it too where MLS participation is concerned in another country's D1 and PDL participation at a lower D4 level of USL in direct competition with several CanPL teams? The question of what is exceptional in any of this is not obvious and clear cut, so the idea that the outcome of arbitration is a foregone conclusion either way looks highly dubious to me.

[deschamp86]

16 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The reason it is damaging is that having an ownership group go to these lengths to try to avoid being part of the league calls into serious question whether the league was a good idea in the first place.

Bear in mind that this was originally supposed to be a CFL oriented league in ownership terms and we now have one CFL ownership group going to the CAS in Geneva to try to stay in the USL Championship instead and another apparently still allowed to have a team at USL League One level after not being allowed in. Confused, you will be after this week's episode of Soap?

It's not at all clear why any Canadian team should be allowed into USSF leagues under FIFA statutes at this point if CanPL is what the CSA claim it is in terms of being a fully pro D1, and why the Fury would be singled out for non-sanctioning other than Victor Montagliani doing this on a whim to bolster his pet project.

Why is Canada still allowed to have its cake and eat it too where MLS participation is concerned in another country's D1 and PDL participation at a lower D4 level of USL in direct competition with several CanPL teams? The question of what is exceptional in any of this is not obvious and clear cut, so the idea that the outcome of arbitration is a foregone conclusion either way looks highly dubious to me.

You ever consider writing for the Sun?

[Keegan]

25 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The reason it is damaging is that having an ownership group go to these lengths to try to avoid being part of the league calls into serious question whether the league was a good idea in the first place.

Bear in mind that this was originally supposed to be a CFL oriented league in ownership terms and we now have one CFL ownership group going to the CAS in Geneva to try to stay in the USL Championship instead and another apparently still allowed to have a team at USL League One level after not being allowed in. Confused, you will be after this week's episode of Soap?

It's not at all clear why any Canadian team should be allowed into USSF leagues under FIFA statutes at this point if CanPL is what the CSA claim it is in terms of being a fully pro D1, and why the Fury would be singled out for non-sanctioning other than Victor Montagliani doing this on a whim to bolster his pet project.

Why is Canada still allowed to have its cake and eat it too where MLS participation is concerned in another country's D1 and PDL participation at a lower D4 level of USL in direct competition with several CanPL teams? The question of what is exceptional in any of this is not obvious and clear cut, so the idea that the outcome of arbitration is a foregone conclusion either way looks highly dubious to me.

No it really doesn’t, unless you care to elaborate on that?  So one rogue group with questionable motives calls into question a whole league?  Talk about a stretch and a half. 

OSEG wants to ride coattails and cut costs - that’s all this is and they don’t want to have an academy or have to market their team. 

This really isn’t complicated or dubious as you suggest.  MLS is an exceptional circumstance for the time being.. USL is not.  USL is run at a semi pro level with reserve teams and many players taking part time jobs.. certainly not an exceptional circumstance.  CPL is directly in line with USL in terms of budget etc. and no matter how much people scream into the sky about the “superiority” of USL it isn’t based in reality, it’s pure jealousy over a new league already being in line with a league that constantly is trying to prove itself as legitimate - despite being one of the most unstable leagues in world football.  We are talking about a USL side that squeaked by Blainville.  

Currently Canada doesn’t have a national amateur league equivalent to PDL.. so for the time being they are exceptional circumstances.  TFC 3 is not eligible for CPL, so clearly an exceptional circumstance.  Also, the further you travel down the ladder the less significant it is to regulate you (see Berwick Rangers).  Just a little business mixed with common sense. 

Ottawa Fury is eligible for CPL (Canadian national pro league) but wants to play in USL (American national pro D2).  There is no major difference, ethnic conflict etc. They are not an exceptional circumstance. Very simple. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Keegan

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 minutes ago, Keegan said:

No it really doesn’t, unless you care to elaborate on that?  So one rogue group with questionable motives calls into question a whole league?  Talk about a stretch and a half...

How many of the CanPL groups would choose USL instead if the CSA allowed it and how many other would be USL ownership groups would emerge from the woodwork, if a genuine choice were provided and the CSA hadn't steered things towards their preferred outcome? Beyond that you are not addressing what is normally meant by exceptional circumstances in FIFA statutes terms. If a country has a fully pro league of its own nobody gets playing out rights. The exceptional circumstances are the absence of a fully pro league.

Edited December 21, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Blackdude]

Well, we can say no for 2019. 

[dyslexic nam]

So, CONCACAF has given one year sanction, subject to FIFA approval:

https://www.ottawafuryfc.com/news_article/show/978696

 

 

[mianjo]

Fury good to go in USL in 2019

 

Ottawa Fury FC was today informed by Canada Soccer that it has now been sanctioned by CONCACAF, the governing body for soccer in North America, to play in the United Soccer League (USL) in 2019, subject to approval by FIFA, soccer’s international governing body. Notification was provided to Canada Soccer after Fury FC sought urgent relief from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) to permit the team to play in the USL after its sanctioning had been brought into question by CONCACAF. With confirmation that CONCACAF sanctioning has been received, there is no longer any need for the urgent relief from CAS.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Looks like Victor Montagliani blinked first after his bluff was called.

[dyslexic nam]

I certainly wouldn't read too much into this long term. Even those who think the Fury have no real argument recognize that the timing might lead to a one year extension.  The timing was poor regardless of the merits of either side.  I still absolutely believe that the Fury will not be playing in USL come 2020.

[BrennanFan]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like Victor Montagliani blinked first after his bluff was called.

Yes it does look like that. Makes you wonder why we had to go down this road in the first place.

Now there will be all sorts of speculation about what deals have been made with regards to 2020, but I don't think we will hear anything until next Fall (if ever). On its face Concacaf looks very weak.

[SpursFlu]

I don't thik so. It was always meant to be a warning shot. I fully expect them sold or in the CPL in 2020. Now TFC can fill the team with a bunch of players on loan

Edited December 21, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Keegan]

15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

How many of the CanPL groups would choose USL instead if the CSA allowed it and how many other would be USL ownership groups would emerge from the woodwork, if a genuine choice were provided and the CSA hadn't steered things towards their preferred outcome? Beyond that you are not addressing what is normally meant by exceptional circumstances in FIFA statutes terms. If a country has a fully pro league of its own nobody gets playing out rights. The exceptional circumstances are the absence of a fully pro league.

Now you’re just being intentionally ignorant.  Your question is essentially “how many teams would join an American League if the CSA decided not to have a league?” Do better. 

No the exceptional circumstances are not the absence of a pro league and you know this.  Look at the league of Ireland and Derry City - look at Berwick Rangers as I just told you.  Also show me a definition of exceptional circumstances.. that’s the funny thing about law, precedents can be set by a judge.  

The Ottawa Fury have no exceptional circumstances and will be out of USL after 2019.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Keegan

[baulderdash77]

I think a deal was reached.  The Fury certainly can’t say in 2020 that they have no idea there’s no sanctioning then.  

 

[Keegan]

10 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like Victor Montagliani blinked first after his bluff was called.

Does it? Or did Ottawa fold? 

Keep making your narrative I guess.  CONCACAF would not fold unless a deal was reached.. why would they?  Ottawa got the message and it’s game over for them next year is my guess.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Keegan

[Ottawafan74]

9 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like Victor Montagliani blinked first after his bluff was called.

Of course he blinked. They were going to lose the case if it went before the CAS. They didn’t follow their own rules and protocols. This was all VM trying to push his weight around when he didn’t have to go down this path. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, Keegan said:

No the exceptional circumstances are not the absence of a pro league and you know this.  Look at the league of Ireland and Derry City - look at Berwick Rangers as I just told you.  Also show me a definition of exceptional circumstances.. that’s the funny thing about law, precedents can be set by a judge.  

The Ottawa Fury have no exceptional circumstances, period. 

I'm not being intentionally anything. Derry City and Berwick Rangers are easy walking distance from the borders involved and there's a loophole for that. The obvious exceptional circumstance for Ottawa is the same as that for the MLS and PDL teams. They are grandfathered in like the Welsh teams in the English pyramid were after the League of Wales was formed.

Edited December 21, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think a deal was reached.  The Fury certainly can’t say in 2020 that they have no idea there’s no sanctioning then.  

 

That is the main rationale I suspect.  CONCACAF gives a one year extension and essentially neuters all of Ottawa's main arguments for next year - no economic impact, no communication breakdown, no lack of awareness.

That gives the Fury and CPL one year to decide if they want to shack up or the CPL can shutter the place.  Pretty straightforward at this point.

[Keegan]

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Of course he blinked. They were going to lose the case if it went before the CAS. They didn’t follow their own rules and protocols. This was all VM trying to push his weight around when he didn’t have to go down this path. 

Which rules and protocols didn’t they follow?

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I'm not being intentionally anything. Derry City and Berwick Rangers are easy walking distance from the borders involved and there's a loophole for that. The obvious exceptional circumstance for Ottawa is the same as that for the MLS and PDL teams. They are grandfathered in like the Welsh teams in the English pyramid were after the League of Wales was formed.

Where is the grandfather rule in FIFA statutes?  Just curious. 

This clearly means that CONCACAF won in my mind.  Ottawa will be in CPL in 2020 without the drama, which was probably to avoid this whole scenario next year.  The best Ottawa would get in CAS is 1 year so they got their settlement and now can say they moved to CPL by choice.  Win-win for all sides - it’s called a settlement.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Keegan

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think a deal was reached.  The Fury certainly can’t say in 2020 that they have no idea there’s no sanctioning then.  

 

Sanctioning for Canadian teams in USSF leagues is always done one year at a time. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Sanctioning for Canadian teams in USSF leagues is always done one year at a time. 

Given that a large part of their complaint this year was that there was far too little notice given to them in advance of the 2019 season, your point is disingenuous.  @baulderdash77's point is that in 2020, they can't claim ignorance that sanctioning might not be forthcoming.

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Sanctioning for Canadian teams in USSF leagues is always done one year at a time. 

Yes.. and now they’ve been formally told over a year in advance they’re not getting sanctioned.

You live in an alternate reality if you think concacaf folded and now everything is going to go back to how it was.  

[LAK]

15 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I don't thik so. It was always meant to be a warning shot. I fully expect them sold or in the CPL in 2020. Now TFC can fill the team with a bunch of players on loan

This is what I was thinking too. They were never going to deny them this late and totally screw the team...but, it's only a year, and it's an exception being made. The message is very clear.