General Discussion on CMNT

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

was going to make a thread about this👀....I think this would be massive, as it was last time. Just better because Canada would definitely be involved. 

USA, Mexico - automatically qualified
Costa Rica - Copa Centramericana champs
Jamaica - Caribbean Cup Champs
Panama beat Cuba to qualify
Haiti beat Trinidad to qualify

We were 10th in ranking at the time and didn't qualify for the playoff. (We've came along way)
If they were to use the same format, we could see the very same 6 teams above but replacing Canada with Haiti.

I saw Haiti, Costa Rica and Panama all play at that tournament, down in Orlando. It killed me for one of those teams to not be Canada.

It’s a great idea though. I doubt it happens, but if the idea is to give 2026 a dry run I would love to see a Canadian city in the mix. Why not? 

[Gian-Luca]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I wonder if this contributes to us playing like a “club team”? When you play that often in a short time it really is the closest you can get to a club environment in international soccer.

It certainly helps. Mind you, El Salvador and Panama would have close to the same number of games (one less as they did not reach the semifinals of the Gold Cup), while Mexico, US, Costa Rica and Honduras played nations league matches in June when we did the extra qualifiers so they wouldn’t be that far behind us. Not sure if any of those teams are said to have a “club team” feel to them.

All the panicking on this board about the lack of friendlies ahead of qualifying seems like a lifetime ago now.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It certainly helps. Mind you, El Salvador and Panama would have close to the same number of games (one less as they did not reach the semifinals of the Gold Cup), while Mexico, US, Costa Rica and Honduras played nations league matches in June when we did the extra qualifiers so they wouldn’t be that far behind us. Not sure if any of those teams are said to have a “club team” feel to them.

All the panicking on this board about the lack of friendlies ahead of qualifying seems like a lifetime ago now.

I actually thought Panama looked very cohesive and so did El Salvador, but you are right. People far more important than myself haven’t said that about either team. Canada on the other hand....

[RS]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

I would love to see a Canadian city in the mix.

This board does need something else to argue about after the World Cup.

[SpecialK]

There will be some huge questions after the World Cup.

who’s gonna retire after the World Cup ?

Herdman staying ? 

What are the new players coming in ?

what’s the gonna be the new standard? 

Davies new Captain ? 

[Rougeisthecolour]

3 hours ago, SpecialK said:

There will be some huge questions after the World Cup.

who’s gonna retire after the World Cup ?

Herdman staying ? 

What are the new players coming in ?

what’s the gonna be the new standard? 

Davies new Captain ? 

Do you expect Herdman to turn his back on the CSA when he has been building towards 2026?

The decision has worked, to the extent that the 46-year-old would be an attractive proposition for a coaching role if he decided to return to his homeland.

It is a conversation he skirts around, secure in the knowledge his contract with the Canadian FA does not expire until after the 2026 World Cup

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60144426

[SpecialK]

15 minutes ago, Rougeisthecolour said:

Do you expect Herdman to turn his back on the CSA when he has been building towards 2026?

The decision has worked, to the extent that the 46-year-old would be an attractive proposition for a coaching role if he decided to return to his homeland.

It is a conversation he skirts around, secure in the knowledge his contract with the Canadian FA does not expire until after the 2026 World Cup

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60144426

If Canada get out of group, you bet pro club teams will take a crack at herdman. I’m sure in his contract has a no compete clause, so we won’t see him for another Country until after 2026. 

[SpecialK]

8 hours ago, Rougeisthecolour said:

Do you expect Herdman to turn his back on the CSA when he has been building towards 2026?

The decision has worked, to the extent that the 46-year-old would be an attractive proposition for a coaching role if he decided to return to his homeland.

It is a conversation he skirts around, secure in the knowledge his contract with the Canadian FA does not expire until after the 2026 World Cup

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60144426

If the offer is good. Herdman turn his back on the womens program right before a World Cup. Herdman is an opportunist. 
Has herdman done good things for the mens side yes no question. But the level of sainthood this guy has been give is just crazy. The program was getting better much before herdman. 

The program started turning things around when Hoilett joined , larin was an young star in the making and Arfield joins. Davies, Ballou and others were beating england in U20s plus a young 16-17 David was starting to shine in U17. Floro gets fired. Cavallini comes back, Osorio is added. We tied Scotland, we had a great Qatar youth camp and Davies enters at the Gold Cup and we reach the quarters. Herdman was given the team with everything in place and super talented. We are now seeing the reward. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by SpecialK

[Bison44]

[SpecialK]

53 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Love it!

[maplebanana]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

If the offer is good. Herdman turn his back on the womens program right before a World Cup. Herdman is an opportunist. 
Has herdman done good things for the mens side yes no question. But the level of sainthood this guy has been give is just crazy. The program was getting better much before herdman. 

Ah, welcome back SpecialK. One of these days you’ll have to tell us about the time Herdman kicked your dog.

Even Milan Borjan directly disagrees with you on Herdman’s impact. But what the heck does he know?

[SpecialK]

4 hours ago, maplebanana said:

Ah, welcome back SpecialK. One of these days you’ll have to tell us about the time Herdman kicked your dog.

Even Milan Borjan directly disagrees with you on Herdman’s impact. But what the heck does he know?

I’m not saying he hasn’t don’t anything good. He’s done a lot but the level of sainthood he’s been give here is really crazy. He’s a got a super talented team playing amazing football. Now if he was given a team that was bare bones here and got the same results go ahead name soccer stadiums and towns after him. But let’s be real here. He was given Canada‘s golden generation coming up into their prime. 

[Weng]

35 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I’m not saying he hasn’t don’t anything good. He’s done a lot but the level of sainthood he’s been give here is really crazy. He’s a got a super talented team playing amazing football. Now if he was given a team that was bare bones here and got the same results go ahead name soccer stadiums and towns after him. But let’s be real here. He was given Canada‘s golden generation coming up into their prime. 

I think he’s done more than that.  He’s helped changed the mental aspect of our team and has got the best of this golden generation.  He’s taught them how to be winners and given them an identity which were some of our biggest stumbling blocks.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Weng

[El Hombre]

9 hours ago, SpecialK said:

The program started turning things around when Hoilett joined , larin was an young star in the making and Arfield joins. Davies, Ballou and others were beating england in U20s plus a young 16-17 David was starting to shine in U17. Floro gets fired. Cavallini comes back, Osorio is added. We tied Scotland, we had a great Qatar youth camp and Davies enters at the Gold Cup and we reach the quarters. Herdman was given the team with everything in place and super talented. We are now seeing the reward. 

1 - Yes, we beat England U20s but then our U20s crashed out of CONCACAF qualifying without making it out of the group.  As did our U17s losing to Costa Rica and Cuba.
2 - Tabla went MIA internationally refusing call-ups until he finally committed in 2018.
3 - We made the Gold Cup quarterfinals, but we did it by beating French Guiana and tying Honduras 0-0 and Costa Rica 1-1.  If we didn't make it out of the group, that would've been a colossal failure regardless of who we had.
4 - We tied Scotland but followed that up with a couple draws at the Gold Cup, a loss to Jamaica at the Gold Cup, a win against Jamaica in a Friendly and then a loss to El Salvador.  

So while everything you say was true, we were still a terribly inconsistent team.  Just as we had been for the previous decade.  We didn't really get consistent until the last 13 months.  Further to that, Eustaquio doesn't join until 2019 and he could be considered as important a part to MNT success as anyone else.  Also, the majority of our backline emerged between 2018 and 2021 (Laryea, Johnston, Miller, Adekugbe) not to mention guys like Tajon Buchanan.

So while some pieces were in place when Herdman took over (mainly Davies, Larin, Hoillet and Vitoria), that team was very different than the team that just finished qualifying.

[costarg]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I’m not saying he hasn’t don’t anything good. He’s done a lot but the level of sainthood he’s been give here is really crazy. He’s a got a super talented team playing amazing football. Now if he was given a team that was bare bones here and got the same results go ahead name soccer stadiums and towns after him. But let’s be real here. He was given Canada‘s golden generation coming up into their prime. 

You know how many Countries did absolutely nothing with golden generations?  We also had a a really good team in 2000, how did that work out for us?  The entire culture from players, coaches, staff, back office and CSA was poluted with accepting and expecting failure.  Herdman changed that from the top down.  Have you seen one player act up, question or speak against him?  Any drama whatsoever?  That's the first thing a good coach does, cleans up the trash.  Everyone is in line, this is the first time we can say this about CANMNT.  Like they've all said, every single one of these guys would run into a brick wall for him.  It seems everyone that's worked with him is willing to the same (asst coaches, CSA, etc..).  Even the guys that don't get a minute or don't get called up rave about him, and just say they'll work harder to get the call.  That is incredibly impressive.  Everyone involved is on this guys side.  Time you get onboard buddy.  Frankly, he earned the respect, as a supporter and having suffered being a CANMNT fan for decades, I'm disappointed with your watering down of his accomplishments. 

[Bison44]

Just to make it a bit more even, I dont think its watering down anything to say Herdman has had plenty of tools to work with, some he helped bring in others he had drop in his lap.  Half the squad has become big contributers at their clubs in the last 2-3 years which didnt have anything to do with our national team (Buchanon, Lareya, Millar, Miller, Kennedy,Johnston) And I think slowly our guys are bringing winning attitudes from their clubs...Davies with Bayern, Oso in Azteca, Cavallini in MX, Borjan in CL etc.  These guys are used to big moments, and dont wilt like other generations might have.    And if you say there is no drama you must have missed out on the whole Arfield thing.  And there are guys who were pretty decent for us who have been shut out, Tiebert, James even Cornelius so there hasnt been agreement on that either. 

BUT.....You cant argue with success, and it has been a wild rocket ride to the top of CONCACAF.   He has everyone revved up and pulling in the same direction (for once), which is prob the hardest job for a manager.  But if we are doling out praise and making the coach some sort of savior isnt that watering down the accomplishments of the players, its them that are the ones on the field standing up to the mexicans in Azteca.  In my lifetime we have never had scorers and offensive players like David and Davies (Sorry Dero, Alex).  

[TOcanadafan]

Put me on the side of referring to Herdman now as St. John.

As a team, we are much more the sum of our parts.  Just looking at our options at defensive and midfield positions, Mexico and US are miles above us in depth and talent yet we finished WCQ conceding the fewest goals.  Tactically, he shines.  Plus, you hear only positive things he’s done ‘behind the scenes’ to put a high performance team in place (sports scientists, other coaches, physios, trainers, etc.).

After we get to the semis in 2026 (losing to the US in a controversial referee decision), he will leave us and join Man U.  We can coax Vancouver resident Carlo Ancelotti out of retirement and he’ll lead us to the Cup in 2030… by that time we’ll need an experienced manager who can deal with all the big egos of a star-studded outfit.

[Sal333]

13 hours ago, SpecialK said:

If the offer is good. Herdman turn his back on the womens program right before a World Cup. Herdman is an opportunist. 
Has herdman done good things for the mens side yes no question. But the level of sainthood this guy has been give is just crazy. The program was getting better much before herdman. 

The program started turning things around when Hoilett joined , larin was an young star in the making and Arfield joins. Davies, Ballou and others were beating england in U20s plus a young 16-17 David was starting to shine in U17. Floro gets fired. Cavallini comes back, Osorio is added. We tied Scotland, we had a great Qatar youth camp and Davies enters at the Gold Cup and we reach the quarters. Herdman was given the team with everything in place and super talented. We are now seeing the reward. 

Let me ask you. Are you Jungle Pete on another site? If not, well then I found your doppelganger. 

[Sal333]

10 hours ago, maplebanana said:

Ah, welcome back SpecialK. One of these days you’ll have to tell us about the time Herdman kicked your dog.

Even Milan Borjan directly disagrees with you on Herdman’s impact. But what the heck does he know?

Milan Borjan and every other national team player who has been asked.

[TGAA_Star]

1 hour ago, TOcanadafan said:

Put me on the side of referring to Herdman now as St. John.

As a team, we are much more the sum of our parts.  Just looking at our options at defensive and midfield positions, Mexico and US are miles above us in depth and talent yet we finished WCQ conceding the fewest goals.  Tactically, he shines.  Plus, you hear only positive things he’s done ‘behind the scenes’ to put a high performance team in place (sports scientists, other coaches, physios, trainers, etc.).

After we get to the semis in 2026 (losing to the US in a controversial referee decision), he will leave us and join Man U.  We can coax Vancouver resident Carlo Ancelotti out of retirement and he’ll lead us to the Cup in 2030… by that time we’ll need an experienced manager who can deal with all the big egos of a star-studded outfit.

Canada after 2026 could we have a world class manager take over? I wouldn't doubt it but for now I'm good with Herdman 

[rkomar]

There's lots of credit for our success being given to our talented goal scorers here but not much for our other players.  Before the qualification process, everyone was sure our defense would be our Achilles heel.  On paper, our backs are not golden generation material.  However, we allowed the fewest goals against of any team in qualification.  Our team defending is better than the sum of our parts.  That's down to coaching and I think you would be wrong in assuming that it would be the same no matter who had that job.  Anyone watching Lille for the past two years can see what difference a coach can make in that department.

[maplebanana]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:49 AM, SpecialK said:

I’m not saying he hasn’t don’t anything good. He’s done a lot but the level of sainthood he’s been give here is really crazy. He’s a got a super talented team playing amazing football. Now if he was given a team that was bare bones here and got the same results go ahead name soccer stadiums and towns after him. But let’s be real here. He was given Canada‘s golden generation coming up into their prime. 

Many people here were saying that he was given good ingredients (golden generation, etc) and so getting to the Ocho was bare minimum. It seemed the consensus was that if he got us competitive for 4th we would be happy about that. We finished first in qualifying, vastly higher than anyone expected (I didn't even simulate first place in my analysis pre-Ocho). That's to Herdman's credit. 

Are the goalposts moving? I dunno, maybe ask this guy: 

On 6/14/2021 at 10:13 PM, SpecialK said:

Maybe people forget how good Holger and his Canadian team was and tough competition they played. I just saw he record in detail and I was shocked. God I wish Canada could play teams like that. Come on CSA stop hiding Herdman in the CONCACAF closet. Herdman Ted talk lovers just look at this record ! When Herdman beats The Swiss, Mexico, South Korea, Columbia, Costa Rica and draws Brazil And wins a tournament and qualifies for the World Cup 2022 ( Holger never did ) I’ll praise Frodo Herdman and say he’s the best manager Canada has ever and if he doesn’t I’ll start a go fund me page for his ticket back to England. 

[Sal333]

7 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

Many people here were saying that he was given good ingredients (golden generation, etc) and so getting to the Ocho was bare minimum. It seemed the consensus was that if he got us competitive for 4th we would be happy about that. We finished first in qualifying, vastly higher than anyone expected (I didn't even simulate first place in my analysis pre-Ocho). That's to Herdman's credit. 

Are the goalposts moving? I dunno, maybe ask this guy: 

Sorry, bud, but the goalposts will be constantly shifting. Do you really expect posters like Special K to a dmit that maybe they were wrong about JH?

[narduch]

17 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

Many people here were saying that he was given good ingredients (golden generation, etc) and so getting to the Ocho was bare minimum. It seemed the consensus was that if he got us competitive for 4th we would be happy about that. We finished first in qualifying, vastly higher than anyone expected (I didn't even simulate first place in my analysis pre-Ocho). That's to Herdman's credit. 

Are the goalposts moving? I dunno, maybe ask this guy: 

I think the last window brought us back down to Earth with the 2 losses.

That's partly why some questions are coming out now.

[maplebanana]

12 minutes ago, narduch said:

I think the last window brought us back down to Earth with the 2 losses.

That's partly why some questions are coming out now.

I think criticism of his squad selection for the Panama game is warranted. As is perhaps his motivational acumen for that game. But to say that he has a golden generation handed to him and that the last 10 years were building to this even without him? That's a bit much.