CPL General

[m-g-williams]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Crusade?

The name of the sport is "Association Football". Check out the official FIFA (not FISA) rulebook if you don't believe me.

And we play in CONCACAF (not CONCACAS).

In North America, "soccer" is widely regarded as a children's game.

Those are the facts. Do with them what you will.

Kudos to Toronto FC for realizing what they are and naming themselves accordingly. It is a trend that just makes sense and I hope and expect that CPL will recognize this.

No one here is disputing that it's nearly universally recognized as "football"; we're all well aware of that. I just don't see the necessity of branding it as "football" in a country where the sport is generally referred to as "soccer". If "soccer" is what it's known as - and "football" generally refers to an entirely different sport - , then I don't see why we would need to swim against the current. 

And for the record, "soccer" being considered a children's game is your opinion, not a fact. Don't try to present it as such. 

16 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

For the sake of accuracy, the North American Soccer League is not defunct but cancelled their 2018 season largely because of the late verdict for their injunction appeal.

 

Not looking good for the NASL's future though with only 4 clubs left in the league but time will tell if they return to the field in 2019.

Thanks for the clarification! I couldn't remember exactly where things landed with them, and just felt too lazy to confirm.   Much appreciated! 

Edited April 25, 2018 by m-g-williams

[Shortdutchcanuck]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I would argue that the leagues you cite have been extraordinarily poor at marketing themselves and that branding themselves as a children's game has certainly not helped.

I usually agree with you @dsqpr so it's fun to argue for once.  But I don't even know how to continue this discussion when you have this made-up concept of soccer as a children's game.  The sport is simply referred to at every level in Canada and the US as soccer.  

You can certainly criticise MLS marketing but the fact is the league has franchises lining up to be a part of it.  The quality has been on a constant trajectory of improvement.  I would counter-argue that had MLS presented itself as simply a carbon copy of a European league it might not be around today.  

[Complete Homer]

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

I usually agree with you @dsqpr so it's fun to argue for once.  But I don't even know how to continue this discussion when you have this made-up concept of soccer as a children's game.  The sport is simply referred to at every level in Canada and the US as soccer.  

You can certainly criticise MLS marketing but the fact is the league has franchises lining up to be a part of it.  The quality has been on a constant trajectory of improvement.  I would counter-argue that had MLS presented itself as simply a carbon copy of a European league it might not be around today.  

1. Yes, discussion is always good! Almost all the people I know who are not football fans like me regard "soccer" as an activity for their children. These are exactly the people I think the CPL would hope to recruit as fans. Perhaps everybody else's experience is different but that has been mine. Kids play "soccer" until they are 13-15 when they start playing a "real" sport like hockey or misnomer football. But however that may be...

2. Check out the TV numbers for MLS. That will give you an idea of how widely accepted it is. Combine that with the fact that most EPL clubs get the vast majority of their revenue from TV (I think the average is currently around £40m per club per season -- yes, that is GBP not CAD) and you see the importance of wide acceptance and interest. A fan base that only lives in the cities that have teams is a massive marketing fail.

3. I'm afraid the "carbon copy" comment is too complicated to address here. I'm really just talking about the name of the game. I don't think MLS would now be defunct if it had steered clear of the word "soccer", as CPL have astutely done with the choice of name for the league.

4. THE SPORT IS CALLED FOOTBALL! That is not just the terminology adopted by most of the world, it is the name of the sport! It is just plain silly to call it something different.

Edited April 26, 2018 by dsqpr

[Bison44]

20 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Using the word "soccer" would be fatal branding. "Soccer" is widely regarded as a children's game in Canada. The top professional levels globally are all FOOTBALL leagues and everybody knows it.

There is a funny Laurel and Hardy movie where they are marching out of step with all the others. Time for Canada to get into step with the rest of the FOOTBALL World.

The kids game thing is way off.  If you said it is regarded in canada as a sport for whiny play acting foreigners I would buy that.  That is the complaint I hear over and over.  But most people realize that it is a sport that grown men play and make millions doing it.  But trying to make any of my friends that never actually played soccer (a non existent sport on the prairies in the 70-80's)  that it takes a mix of toughness, stamina and skill is like talking to a wall.  If the CPL is smart they are targeting the huge numbers of former youth soccer players that actually have a grounding/respect for the game and are now adults and might be more inclined to buy tickets. 

The need to make the seismic shift between what everyone has always called it in canada (soccer) to another name which we already use for another sport seems like an needless venture.  Let them buy their first ticket for a soccer game, then once they get season tickets they can act superior and call it real football.  

[Symp_Res]

I think I've commented on this type of discussion before, and I understand both the argument for "football" and the argument for "soccer". Personally, I prefer "SC" as it is known as soccer in Canada (along with other British Commonwealth countries...AsSOCiation Football...a term used by the British when they came to Canada).  But I can live with either one if they want to tack it on to the end of their moniker.  

What I don't want to see is <cityname>FC or <cityneame>SC.  The teams should have a name that connects it to the community where they are based.  Names like "Wanderers", "York 9" etc. create a connection to their community.  Those are the names they should be known by, not something like "The Reds". (That is the National Team as far as I'm concerned). 

Having said that, any team in Sask will get my undivided devotion at the expense of all others regardless of what they are called!

GO CPL!!!

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The kids game thing is way off.  If you said it is regarded in canada as a sport for whiny play acting foreigners I would buy that.  That is the complaint I hear over and over.  But most people realize that it is a sport that grown men play and make millions doing it.  But trying to make any of my friends that never actually played soccer (a non existent sport on the prairies in the 70-80's)  that it takes a mix of toughness, stamina and skill is like talking to a wall.  If the CPL is smart they are targeting the huge numbers of former youth soccer players that actually have a grounding/respect for the game and are now adults and might be more inclined to buy tickets. 

The need to make the seismic shift between what everyone has always called it in canada (soccer) to another name which we already use for another sport seems like an needless venture.  Let them buy their first ticket for a soccer game, then once they get season tickets they can act superior and call it real football.  

I'm not talking about the sport though, I'm talking about what it is called. I'm sure your friends realize equally well that those leagues that pay millions are FOOTBALL leagues. And if they watch any World Cup matches they will be left in no doubt from the commentary that they are watching FOOTBALL. As opposed to what their kids play, which is clearly "soccer". The mental association is unavoidable.

I agree that a "seismic shift" is not likely to work. What is needed instead is a change by osmosis, and avoiding both names for a while is a good approach. Suffixing club names with "FC" without explicitly spelling it out is another good approach. If CPL succeeds, it may one day overtake CFL in terms of interest. That would be the moment to definitively bring Canada into line with the rest of the world.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

As more announcements come out this discussion can be left behind.  We'll all be far too caught up in the excitement, soccer fans and football fans alike, to worry about it.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Let them buy their first ticket for a soccer game, then once they get season tickets they can act superior and call it real football.  

Ha! If you think I'm acting superior by calling football "football", you should see me when I call hockey "hockey"!!

[Tigers]

*Ice Hockey 

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

As more announcements come out this discussion can be left behind.  We'll all be far too caught up in the excitement, soccer fans and football fans alike, to worry about it.

Yeah, it is just a message board debate that is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Still, that is why we come here!

For my part, I am very encouraged that the people running the show in Canada do seem to realize the importance of trying to position the sport as the one that dominates the world rather than the one that is a well known Canadian recreational activity.

Edited April 26, 2018 by dsqpr

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Tigers said:

*Ice Hockey 

 

 

Oh you are so superior!!

And what makes you think I meant the version that is played on ice!

Edited April 26, 2018 by dsqpr

[Shortdutchcanuck]

5 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Ha! If you think I'm acting superior by calling football "football", you should see me when I call hockey "hockey"!!

I'm going to leave this conversation now: too excited about recent CanPL soccer news and TFC beating a Mexican team at soccer to give in to my rage at this line of thinking.

[Rocket Robin]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Crusade?

The name of the sport is "Association Football". Check out the official FIFA (not FISA) rulebook if you don't believe me.

And we play in CONCACAF (not CONCACAS).

In North America, "soccer" is widely regarded as a children's game.

Those are the facts. Do with them what you will.

Kudos to Toronto FC for realizing what they are and naming themselves accordingly. It is a trend that just makes sense and I hope and expect that CPL will recognize this.

And the federation is in Switzerland.  

The International Hockey Federation is in Lausanne Switzerland and has 125 national associations.  Australian men are currently ranked #1 in the world.  Canada is 11th.  Netherlands in #1 for women, Canada is #21.    

The International Ice Hockey Federation is located in Zurich Switzerland and has 76 full and associate countries.  

So I should expect that anyone watching the Stanley Cup playoffs should refer to what they are watching as ICE hockey!    

Well Switzerland sets the rules doesn't it?   

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Rocket Robin said:

And the federation is in Switzerland.  

The International Hockey Federation is in Lausanne Switzerland and has 125 national associations.  Australian men are currently ranked #1 in the world.  Canada is 11th.  Netherlands in #1 for women, Canada is #21.    

The International Ice Hockey Federation is located in Zurich Switzerland and has 76 full and associate countries.  

So I should expect that anyone watching the Stanley Cup playoffs should refer to what they are watching as ICE hockey!    

Well Switzerland sets the rules doesn't it?   

 

Feel free to call it "hockey" or "ice hockey", whichever you prefer!

(The NHL seems to be doing fine in Canada so probably doesn't need to worry about their name.)

Edited April 26, 2018 by dsqpr

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

I'm going to leave this conversation now: too excited about recent CanPL soccer news and TFC beating a Mexican team at soccer to give in to my rage at this line of thinking.

Yes, TFC. There is hope for sanity yet!

[Dub Narcotic]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Ha! If you think I'm acting superior by calling football "football", you should see me when I call hockey "hockey"!!

Trust me, no one thinks you are superior when you are banging on about the crazy concept that different countries have different words for things.

[Kent]

16 hours ago, dsqpr said:

1. Yes, discussion is always good! Almost all the people I know who are not football fans like me regard "soccer" as an activity for their children. These are exactly the people I think the CPL would hope to recruit as fans. Perhaps everybody else's experience is different but that has been mine. Kids play "soccer" until they are 13-15 when they start playing a "real" sport like hockey or misnomer football. But however that may be...

2. Check out the TV numbers for MLS. That will give you an idea of how widely accepted it is. Combine that with the fact that most EPL clubs get the vast majority of their revenue from TV (I think the average is currently around £40m per club per season -- yes, that is GBP not CAD) and you see the importance of wide acceptance and interest. A fan base that only lives in the cities that have teams is a massive marketing fail.

3. I'm afraid the "carbon copy" comment is too complicated to address here. I'm really just talking about the name of the game. I don't think MLS would now be defunct if it had steered clear of the word "soccer", as CPL have astutely done with the choice of name for the league.

4. THE SPORT IS CALLED FOOTBALL! That is not just the terminology adopted by most of the world, it is the name of the sport! It is just plain silly to call it something different.

Other people already commented on a lot of stuff but I can't help myself. I apologize in advance but the "call it football or you are stupid" argument is terrible.

1. Some people in Canada may regard "soccer" as an activity for their kids. Many, many, many more people in Canada regard "football" as a sport you play wearing a helmet, and has leagues like the NFL and CFL.

2. Really? The disparity in TV ratings and financial success of EPL vs MLS is all due to the words "football" and "soccer"? That's the only difference between these leagues? No further comment needed on that ridiculous claim.

3. You don't think MLS would be defunct if it didn't use "soccer". But you do believe CPL will die if it uses "soccer" (from the original comment you made about this made up "issue").

4. THE SPORT IS NOT CALLED FOOTBALL! As you said before it's "Association Football". Blame the British for coming up with a stupid name that needed to get nicknames, which they created (both "football" and "soccer"). Seriously, why would they make their national governing body of "Association Football" go by the name of "Football Association".

I wonder how Italy does it. They have a successful league, and they have won 4 World Cups, even though they don't call it football. They just call it the Italian word for "kick", and somehow they do OK... or I suppose that's probably why they didn't make it to this year's World Cup.

[lazlo_80]

https://twitter.com/ticatmitchell/status/989480482818740225

[mpg_29]

So maybe we'll get a formal announcement of a team or two tomorrow along with the CPL website/logo stuff?

[BuzzAndSting]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

So maybe we'll get a formal announcement of a team or two tomorrow along with the CPL website/logo stuff?

Doubt it. All indications point to teams being announced at the next CSA AGM which is the first weekend in May.

[mpg_29]

3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Doubt it. All indications point to teams being announced at the next CSA AGM which is the first weekend in May.

Is the plan to do them all at once or roll-them-out over next month or so?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Other people already commented on a lot of stuff but I can't help myself. I apologize in advance but the "call it football or you are stupid" argument is terrible.

1. Some people in Canada may regard "soccer" as an activity for their kids. Many, many, many more people in Canada regard "football" as a sport you play wearing a helmet, and has leagues like the NFL and CFL.

2. Really? The disparity in TV ratings and financial success of EPL vs MLS is all due to the words "football" and "soccer"? That's the only difference between these leagues? No further comment needed on that ridiculous claim.

3. You don't think MLS would be defunct if it didn't use "soccer". But you do believe CPL will die if it uses "soccer" (from the original comment you made about this made up "issue").

4. THE SPORT IS NOT CALLED FOOTBALL! As you said before it's "Association Football". Blame the British for coming up with a stupid name that needed to get nicknames, which they created (both "football" and "soccer"). Seriously, why would they make their national governing body of "Association Football" go by the name of "Football Association".

I wonder how Italy does it. They have a successful league, and they have won 4 World Cups, even though they don't call it football. They just call it the Italian word for "kick", and somehow they do OK... or I suppose that's probably why they didn't make it to this year's World Cup.

You are twisting and mis-representing all of my arguments.

0. I have never said, nor do I think, that you must "call it football or you are stupid". I did say that it is silly to use a different name than the real one, and you have twisted that statement.

1. I never said that the disparity between EPL and MLS revenue is because of the name football!! The point I made was that TV revenue is important to the success of a league and MLS does not have it because their marketing has failed. And yes, I do think their marketing would be more successful if they avoided the word "soccer" in their branding.

3. Of course I don't think MLS would be defunct if it did not use the word "soccer"! That is my whole point! Pay attention!

4. Yes, it is called Association Football, but in common usage the "association" half is dropped, as you well know. And I am well aware of the etymology for "soccer" and it does not affect my argument in the least.

5. Italy is not trying to establish a new league. Under very difficult circumstances, where small details could very well be the difference between failure and success.

Edited April 26, 2018 by dsqpr

[BuzzAndSting]

12 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Is the plan to do them all at once or roll-them-out over next month or so?

No idea, I'm guessing we'll get 4-6 at once.

[deschamp86]

19 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Doubt it. All indications point to teams being announced at the next CSA AGM which is the first weekend in May.

Perhaps we will get more of an idea as to the structure of the league, salary caps, foreign player quotas, etc.