CPL new teams speculation

[ted]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

I was hoping for a bit more of a splashy launch video like when they launched the other teams.

That will come when the team gets a name and crest.

[Markoaleks]

Seems like a soccer ownership mutual fund/fractional ownership with this proposed  structure for the new club from the website

Likely looking for more than the 5k I could front 😃

[DrFitzpatrick]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

With the whole World Cup facility tie in buzz I'm calling Burnaby Lake. With a National Tennis facility going there, new arena, giant soccer facility already there, towers condos going all around, skytrain etc etc. It makes a lot of sense 

No offense to the Whitecaps facility but it's a terrible location 

The more I look at this the more I think they're really looking to jump right in and compete with the Whitecaps 

I hope you are right here...Awesome area.  Close to the biggest population bases of Surrey and Vancouver literally right beside highway 1 which is the main highway to get in/out of Vancouver and the Fraser Valley.

The city of Burnaby owns all the land around there.  They just purchased the facility across the street from Burnable Lake fields and ice rink (Fortius Centre) and renamed it the Christine Sinclair Centre.  

Maybe Christine Sinclair Stadium??!!  

[grasshopper1917]

Pacific has an exciting team challenging for first place and struggles badly to get 3000 out to a game. So give the same ownership group a team in Vancouver to go up against the Whitecaps? I dunno - seems like they are just going to give teams to anyone who has a bit of coin and a place to play. Regardless if it makes sense.

[SpursFlu]

6 minutes ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

I hope you are right here...Awesome area.  Close to the biggest population bases of Surrey and Vancouver literally right beside highway 1 which is the main highway to get in/out of Vancouver and the Fraser Valley.

The city of Burnaby owns all the land around there.  They just purchased the facility across the street from Burnable Lake fields and ice rink (Fortius Centre) and renamed it the Christine Sinclair Centre.  

Maybe Christine Sinclair Stadium??!!  

I think its a great location but I think it's a bit redundant to the Caps. I plan on moving to the Valley soon I just don't see myself driving in for that. I think as a real estate play it's smart for the owners and larger facility will create revenue streams for them but I don't see it building a fan base like you could in the Valley.

Hopefully there are still plans to bring a team to the Valley 

[DrFitzpatrick]

4 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Pacific has an exciting team challenging for first place and struggles badly to get 3000 out to a game. So give the same ownership group a team in Vancouver to go up against the Whitecaps? I dunno - seems like they are just going to give teams to anyone who has a bit of coin and a place to play. Regardless if it makes sense.

For the sake of discussion:  If groups come in and pay the league the fees it requires to expand, doesn't handing out a lot of teams make sense?  The league gets more funds and if these groups succeed, great.  If they fail, no risk to the league if they get paid.

I suppose if clubs are failing left, right and centre this doesn't help the league with regards to reputation.  

[DrFitzpatrick]

Just now, SpursFlu said:

I think its a great location but I think it's a bit redundant to the Caps. I plan on moving to the Valley soon I just don't see myself driving in for that. I think as a real estate play it's smart for the owners and larger facility will create revenue streams for them but I don't see it building a fan base like you could in the Valley.

Hopefully there are still plans to bring a team to the Valley 

I live in South-East Van so this is exciting for me if they move to Burnaby Lake.  I will definitely have season tickets.  

And you are right, its pretty close to the Caps, but I for one am quite sick of the Whitecaps "patheticness" on and off the field.  I have a lot of friends in the same boat that dropped their tickets to the Caps a few years ago.  I have other friends who have held on to their tickets only because they love football.  This could be the catalyst to get people to leave the Caps.

I also worry that the snobbiness of the city folk here could keep a CPL team largely ignored; kind of the they do with the CFL.

Exciting times ahead!

[Aird25]

11 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Pacific has an exciting team challenging for first place and struggles badly to get 3000 out to a game. So give the same ownership group a team in Vancouver to go up against the Whitecaps? I dunno - seems like they are just going to give teams to anyone who has a bit of coin and a place to play. Regardless if it makes sense.

What an odd perspective. In spite of everything, the owners are willing to double their risk. That's a positive sign, no?

Halifax fans remind me so much of Seattle Sounders fans in the early years

[Big_M]

Seriously doubt this group has another few million to spend...surely there is another investor or the sale of one of the two teams coming

[grasshopper1917]

3 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

What an odd perspective. In spite of everything, the owners are willing to double their risk. That's a positive sign, no?

Halifax fans remind me so much of Seattle Sounders fans in the early years

I don't think my view represents 'Halifax fans'. Even though I am a Wanderers fan. I have no idea what 'risk' 'Sixfive' is taking nor who is funding them. Nor do I have an idea what kind of cash they are putting up - frankly if any. 

It just for me doesn't seem like a logical thing to do. Same way I thought it was crazy to put a team in York. I just think there are many places in the country where a team would work better. However why not give it a chance. 

I also have no idea what your reference to Seattle Sounder fans is referring to.

[Watchmen]

12 minutes ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

And you are right, its pretty close to the Caps, but I for one am quite sick of the Whitecaps "patheticness" on and off the field.  I have a lot of friends in the same boat that dropped their tickets to the Caps a few years ago.  I have other friends who have held on to their tickets only because they love football.  This could be the catalyst to get people to leave the Caps.

I'm not going to tell anyone who to cheer for or how to spend their money, but if you stopped watching the Caps this year you missed an exciting second half, a top DP in Ryan Gauld, and a final game in front of 25k fans against a rival. Which to me, makes the timing of this announcement a bit odd. I get it - the old FO is embroiled in yet another scandal (or the same scandal, depending on your point of view). But there is a lot of goodwill towards the current players, coach, and Schuster's management. If they keep up being decent on the field and actually do clear out a lot of the old FO, that makes this even more of an uphill battle for the CPL.

[SpursFlu]

6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not going to tell anyone who to cheer for or how to spend their money, but if you stopped watching the Caps this year you missed an exciting second half, a top DP in Ryan Gauld, and a final game in front of 25k fans against a rival. Which to me, makes the timing of this announcement a bit odd. I get it - the old FO is embroiled in yet another scandal (or the same scandal, depending on your point of view). But there is a lot of goodwill towards the current players, coach, and Schuster's management. If they keep up being decent on the field and actually do clear out a lot of the old FO, that makes this even more of an uphill battle for the CPL.

Me I'm just not in to going to Vancouver anymore. The energy in the stands isn't my cup of tea either. If I'm still around when the CPL team launches I'll probably switch but we'll see how things go in 2023 and where and how this team shapes up

[Aird25]

10 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not going to tell anyone who to cheer for or how to spend their money, but if you stopped watching the Caps this year you missed an exciting second half, a top DP in Ryan Gauld, and a final game in front of 25k fans against a rival. Which to me, makes the timing of this announcement a bit odd. I get it - the old FO is embroiled in yet another scandal (or the same scandal, depending on your point of view). But there is a lot of goodwill towards the current players, coach, and Schuster's management. If they keep up being decent on the field and actually do clear out a lot of the old FO, that makes this even more of an uphill battle for the CPL.

It does seem like odd timing with Vancouver and Pacific both entering the playoffs. Maybe they're just hoping to ride the wave 

[DrFitzpatrick]

17 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not going to tell anyone who to cheer for or how to spend their money, but if you stopped watching the Caps this year you missed an exciting second half, a top DP in Ryan Gauld, and a final game in front of 25k fans against a rival. Which to me, makes the timing of this announcement a bit odd. I get it - the old FO is embroiled in yet another scandal (or the same scandal, depending on your point of view). But there is a lot of goodwill towards the current players, coach, and Schuster's management. If they keep up being decent on the field and actually do clear out a lot of the old FO, that makes this even more of an uphill battle for the CPL.

Fair enough point.  I'm watching from afar.  Just not ready to start throwing my hard earned money back at the Caps.  I did however watch them live in Langford and traded in all my Caps gears from some Pacific swag!

Edited November 10, 2021 by DrFitzpatrick
addition to comment

[Watchmen]

19 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Me I'm just not in to going to Vancouver anymore. The energy in the stands isn't my cup of tea either. If I'm still around when the CPL team launches I'll probably switch but we'll see how things go in 2023 and where and how this team shapes up

Sure, but that's more "life style" change than anything related to either the on field product or the current scandal, and that happens to all clubs every year.

[nazzer]

3 hours ago, Footscray said:

With FV coming in, if Saskatoon happens Kelowna should be next - there are 400,000 people in the Okanagan Valley within 50 minutes of downtown Kelowna now which is the same size as Victoria and it is growing way faster, albeit more spread out.  Would give you a nice little cluster of 6 clubs in a western conference with significant travel savings for operations.  Come up with an imbalanced schedule involving 2 home and away with each western team and one away trip to the clubs from Winnipeg east per season makes a lot of sense for long term financial viability.

Fraser Valley, Van Isle, Okanagan, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon is a perfect western conference

Hamilton, York, Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, Halifax would be the ideal eastern six

Just have to decide who gets stuck with Winnipeg and the travel burden there.

Whenever someone talks about Kelowna like this I always have to ask; do you live in Kelowna? Is the person talking about the area being '400,000 people' actually from there? I read stories about the reason certain cities are successful in sports is because they have downtown stadiums with accessible transit systems. Kelowna is the absolute worst with respect to accessability. 

[Footscray]

1 hour ago, nazzer said:

Whenever someone talks about Kelowna like this I always have to ask; do you live in Kelowna? Is the person talking about the area being '400,000 people' actually from there? I read stories about the reason certain cities are successful in sports is because they have downtown stadiums with accessible transit systems. Kelowna is the absolute worst with respect to accessability. 

I do.  It has changed immensely in the last 10 years and the downtown is densifying rapidly.  There have been a huge influx of white collar young families priced out of Vancouver who can work remotely.  There has been a new university built here from nothing, shooting off the college that has 11,500 students now.  The community is becoming more diverse, albeit slowly.  It'll work here if the facility gets built in the right place and we have ownership willing to commit for a while and build something.

City Park downtown has a beautiful pitch close to the water with lots of parkades within walking distance and a ton of foot traffic in the summer every day.  I'd argue that there is more foot traffic in downtown Kelowna per square foot than any other city in western Canada in the summer.  Accessibility compared to Spruce Meadows or Starlight would be way way better.  The old industrial park just north of downtown has a few playing fields and open spaces that would also be a good location.

Sure we do not have great mass transit, but downtown is filling in and a huge part of that has been a bunch of large parkades being built, that easily accommodate the 6-7,000 folks who come downtown for big Rockets games and the many festivals that go on in the downtown parks in summer.

A small stadium down there would kill, for soccer and concerts and I think the current mayor would happily partner with someone interested in investing and the community is still young enough that it hasn't got the same level of nimbyism as vancouver or victoria.  Needs an investor with some money and the central stadium.  If they were to revamp the Apple Bowl or build on the outskirts I think it would be a div 2 team, but they could attract similar crowds to starlight if not better if built downtown and marketed well.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Footscray

[wallflower]

8 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm a Toronto person. But I have to ask, why not play at Swanguard?

Me T.O. too.

Swanguard grass pitch - much better than Whitecaps stadium! And the surrounding trees and view make Swanguard a fabulous place to spectate. Decent transit there.

[ted]

6 hours ago, Footscray said:

Just have to decide who gets stuck with Winnipeg and the travel burden there.

I don't have a problem taking Winnipeg for the West. It's way closer than Halifax.

 

4 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Pacific has an exciting team challenging for first place and struggles badly to get 3000 out to a game. So give the same ownership group a team in Vancouver to go up against the Whitecaps? I dunno - seems like they are just going to give teams to anyone who has a bit of coin and a place to play. Regardless if it makes sense.

The population of the Capital Region (Greater Victoria) is in the neighbourhood of 350-400,000. The population of the Lower Mainland is approaching 3 million. I think they will have no problem finding an audience given how many soccer fans the Whitecaps have alienated in the last five years.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

If they keep up being decent on the field and actually do clear out a lot of the old FO, that makes this even more of an uphill battle for the CPL.

It would be better if this new team was on the east side of the Port Mann and have a clear Fraser Valley identity.  Maybe less of a fan base competition?

With Kelowna, I just don't see it as a summer time pro soccer market (at least on weekends).  And, believe it or not, I actually told Friend that when I flukily met him and Simpson at the Pacific FC store two years ago and he seemed to concur (or was he just politely cajoling this boomer?).  I would like to see how a League 1 BC team does first in Kelowna. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

For the sake of discussion:  If groups come in and pay the league the fees it requires to expand, doesn't handing out a lot of teams make sense?    

This group wanted to be in lower mainland BC at launch (specifically Surrey, the move to Langford was at the very last minute) and have often been reported/rumoured to still hold the franchise rights for that area (hope it's safe to finally be able to use the f-word on here now after David Clanachan did it repeatedly in interviews related to this expansion club). The league was probably already on the hook for this team once a suitable stadium solution was identified.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

The stadium deficit in Canada is dire. I'd say not one CPL club has one that's appropriate. They're either makeshift, piecemeal, too big, too dinky or lacking something basic. I'm sick of these summer garden tents all over filling in the gaps. Or the unfilled gaps with the truck towing the generators parked pitch side. Or cavernous empty stands. 

I have no hope for anything to change with this new project in "Vancouver". 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The stadium deficit in Canada is dire. I'd say not one CPL club has one that's appropriate. They're either makeshift, piecemeal, too big, too dinky or lacking something basic. I'm sick of these summer garden tents all over filling in the gaps. Or the unfilled gaps with the truck towing the generators parked pitch side. Or cavernous empty stands. 

I have no hope for anything to change with this new project in "Vancouver". 

But but what about character… I think starlight is the best stadium albeit the hydro pole.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Shway said:

But but what about character… I think starlight is the best stadium albeit the hydro pole.

I suppose you have been.

There are things at Starlight that are pure idiocy and frankly embarrassing. That they got past the dunces in Langford city hall, civil servants and politicians, Rugby Canada and Pacific FC suggests very poor due diligence.

They had an original main stand running about 40 metres total, either side of the centre line. With a corresponding covering roof. That roof did not cover all the way down to row one, however.

Then they extended the stands on either side to run the full length. A new investment, expensive, with public funding. But look at it. With those wooden roofs they brought in from Europe, forget where, they decided to only put them over part of each side extension. There are two gaps in the main stand roof.

It is a major design flaw and anyone with half a brain would have recognised it immediately, on paper. So on a rainy day, it rains fully on about 5-7 seats from top to bottom, and what happens: fans move away from the wet seats into dryer ones, if available. 

The lowest seats on that stand are also too low and really, you can't watch a match from the first row, it is too low. 

Pacific takes this design flaw and makes cool pics of the sun shining through it, which is the emperor's new clothes all over again. I'll gather pics and post them.

As someone working in design I give it a fail, and those were the publicly funded recent upgrades. The end stand, with a roof built by the same company, is a bit better, but again the lowest row is too low and it is set back from the goalline, so people are walking in front of the stand constantly, blocking their view.

I am not surprised Clanachan, who shows major ignorance in this area and others, and the suits at CPL missed it too, because they have not imposed themselves on any stadium decision in the league. As we stand, that negligence, in many directions, is one of the key debilitating factors of the CPL so far. They are talking about the new Vancouver club meeting their expansion conditions, but let's be honest: those conditions need to be revised when it comes to minimum stadium requirements. Making the efforts in Saskatoon to build the first properly purposed CPL stadium all the more valuable, but get this: the guys trying to do things right in Al Simpson's group have not gotten approval yet. If I were in Saskatoon I'd be asking WTF is going on: you can't have hacks getting approved and major investors doing things right being stonewalled.  

Edited November 11, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

See how they either try to hide the errors, or make them look cute. This was paid for by the municipality of Langford, and is a travesty.

The newer end stand is better, but even still. You are building a new stand with a roof--make the roof cover the stand. Simply extending the roof 90cm each side would give you full coverage over top of the full width. Or, you could have two sets of stairs going up on the sides, not four sets in the middle (let the stairs get wet, not the seats). Since the roof slants upwards, extending it a bit further would have given you coverage of the lower rows. Spending public money this way is disgraceful, so you can imagine the level of the city councillors and municipal planning people at Langford.

The sooner Pacific gets out of Langford and into Royal Athletic Park the better. I think they know this.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist