CPL new teams speculation

[narduch]

 

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The stadium deficit in Canada is dire. I'd say not one CPL club has one that's appropriate. They're either makeshift, piecemeal, too big, too dinky or lacking something basic. I'm sick of these summer garden tents all over filling in the gaps. Or the unfilled gaps with the truck towing the generators parked pitch side. Or cavernous empty stands. 

I have no hope for anything to change with this new project in "Vancouver". 

I was watching York United vs Forge the other night. From some close up shots of players from field level, or there abouts, you can see cars driving by in the background. It looks ridiculous. You half expect to see a player run behind the net to hop a fence and fetch a ball out of the parking lot.

[Aird25]

Here are a couple photos of the beloved Royal Athletic Park mentioned (also a publicly owned and funded stadium btw). Just a grand ol' pitch with wonderful stands for watching soccer. And that roof!!! It just really feels like England.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Aird25

[Watchmen]

19 hours ago, ted said:

The population of the Capital Region (Greater Victoria) is in the neighbourhood of 350-400,000. The population of the Lower Mainland is approaching 3 million. I think they will have no problem finding an audience given how many soccer fans the Whitecaps have alienated in the last five years.

The Lower Mainland is not the greatest at always supporting anything they think is "minor league", and a lot of those soccer fans were alienated by the Whitecaps because of their failures on the pitch and perception that ownership has been cheap.  There are definitely fans alienated by the scandals, but it's not as much as most people think.  So...this new CPL team will have support.  I'm aware of a supporters group already up and running, so good for them.  But, I think it will have trouble attracting the more casual fan on a regular basis.

[Soro17]

21 hours ago, Footscray said:

I do.  It has changed immensely in the last 10 years and the downtown is densifying rapidly.  There have been a huge influx of white collar young families priced out of Vancouver who can work remotely.  There has been a new university built here from nothing, shooting off the college that has 11,500 students now.  The community is becoming more diverse, albeit slowly.  It'll work here if the facility gets built in the right place and we have ownership willing to commit for a while and build something.

City Park downtown has a beautiful pitch close to the water with lots of parkades within walking distance and a ton of foot traffic in the summer every day.  I'd argue that there is more foot traffic in downtown Kelowna per square foot than any other city in western Canada in the summer.  Accessibility compared to Spruce Meadows or Starlight would be way way better.  The old industrial park just north of downtown has a few playing fields and open spaces that would also be a good location.

Sure we do not have great mass transit, but downtown is filling in and a huge part of that has been a bunch of large parkades being built, that easily accommodate the 6-7,000 folks who come downtown for big Rockets games and the many festivals that go on in the downtown parks in summer.

A small stadium down there would kill, for soccer and concerts and I think the current mayor would happily partner with someone interested in investing and the community is still young enough that it hasn't got the same level of nimbyism as vancouver or victoria.  Needs an investor with some money and the central stadium.  If they were to revamp the Apple Bowl or build on the outskirts I think it would be a div 2 team, but they could attract similar crowds to starlight if not better if built downtown and marketed well.

I feel this is a great opportunity to share this with a new audience. Kelownafornia here we come. Surrey-by-the-Lake.

 

 

[SthMelbRed]

48 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The Lower Mainland is not the greatest at always supporting anything they think is "minor league", and a lot of those soccer fans were alienated by the Whitecaps because of their failures on the pitch and perception that ownership has been cheap.  There are definitely fans alienated by the scandals, but it's not as much as most people think.  So...this new CPL team will have support.  I'm aware of a supporters group already up and running, so good for them.  But, I think it will have trouble attracting the more casual fan on a regular basis.

They'll have to make it into a fun way to spend a summer's eve if it's going to work. They'll realistically need somewhere between 1k and 2k hardcores who attend most matches, but make it enjoyable enough that you can have another 50k who are casually invested enough to attend 1-2 matches per year. Perhaps Swangard, if they can come to a favourable arrangement with the City of Burnaby, but having worked for Burnaby Parks for a long time, I'd say that professional sports isn't viewed as the primary purpose of the facility. If they're going for a new facility, I can tell you almost 100% that it won't be at Burnaby Lake. The city is not going to give up public park land for a new stadium when Swangard is only a 5-10 minute drive away. I can't see anything other than a home south of the Fraser, really.

[SthMelbRed]

And, if we're sharing stadium porn today, I'd invite you all to have a look at the Western Sydney Stadium, recently built as a shared home for Western Sydney Wanderers (A-League) and a bunch of NRL teams. It hosted the Socceroos WCQ against Saudi Arabia last night in a torrential downpour, and it's magnificent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sydney_Stadium

It's what real football people build when they want to build a new stadium, rather than the various, U-shaped bullshit that MLS keeps barfing up.

[footballfreak]

8 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

And, if we're sharing stadium porn today, I'd invite you all to have a look at the Western Sydney Stadium, recently built as a shared home for Western Sydney Wanderers (A-League) and a bunch of NRL teams. It hosted the Socceroos WCQ against Saudi Arabia last night in a torrential downpour, and it's magnificent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sydney_Stadium

It's what real football people build when they want to build a new stadium, rather than the various, U-shaped bullshit that MLS keeps barfing up.

Of all the reasons to have a go at MLS, criticizing the stadiums/infrastructure is such a weird and bad take. Are you a time traveler from the past?

[Unnamed Trialist]

El Malecón in Torrelavega, Cantabria, Spain, is the gold standard. Simple, gorgeous. 

Capacity 6800. All of the classic English stadiums with a few easy adjustments and modest detailing.

 

[SthMelbRed]

1 minute ago, footballfreak said:

Of all the reasons to have a go at MLS, criticizing the stadiums/infrastructure is such a weird and bad take. Are you a time traveler from the past?

Being better than what they had before doesn't automatically make the current crop of MLS stadiums necessarily good. Why can't the idiots count to four when they're building stands around a rectangular pitch?

[SthMelbRed]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

El Malecón in Torrelavega, Cantabria, Spain, is the gold standard. Simple, gorgeous. 

Capacity 6800. All of the classic English stadiums with a few easy adjustments and modest detailing.

 

It's certainly nice. If it's build with the ability to expand each individual stand with a second tier, as required, it'd be perfect for new CanPL teams.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, SthMelbRed said:

It's certainly nice. If it's build with the ability to expand each individual stand with a second tier, as required, it'd be perfect for new CanPL teams.

I think you just keep the elegant continuity, but build the stands higher. 

I don't mind stadiums with a larger main stand, also offering better press boxes, but depends how they are done.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Here are a couple photos of the beloved Royal Athletic Park mentioned (also a publicly owned and funded stadium btw). Just a grand ol' pitch with wonderful stands for watching soccer. And that roof!!! It just really feels like England.

I suppose you've been, or seen football there. 

First, the location is great. Second, it has a homey feel and is near a commercial area, restaurants, pubs. And if you go a bit further afoot, even more (up near the Belfry, for eg). Also: the density is coming up in Victoria. It puts you in the middle of the population of Greater Victoria, not like Langford, which is on the edge. 

It could be fit properly: the main long stand is alright, but probably you'd have to redo all the stands so it works for baseball and football.

 

[Stoppage Time]

4 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Here are a couple photos of the beloved Royal Athletic Park mentioned (also a publicly owned and funded stadium btw). Just a grand ol' pitch with wonderful stands for watching soccer. And that roof!!! It just really feels like England.

In the mid 1970's I saw Chelsea play the Island All-Stars. For some reason Ray Wilkins would not trade his jersey for my Whitecaps cap. Anyway, RAP was an excellent place to watch soccer as the pitch was so close to the grandstand. As I recall, the pitch did not extend into the baseball diamond infield so there was no need to play among the bases. A grandstand could be built against Cook Street, a grandstand extension could be built along Caledonia, and movable bleachers could be built aside the baseball diamond and along Pembroke, This could create a a cozy 6000 or so seat stadium for soccer. I am not sure of the parking availability around that location. Cheers!

[Aird25]

19 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I suppose you've been, or seen football there. 

First, the location is great. Second, it has a homey feel and is near a commercial area, restaurants, pubs. And if you go a bit further afoot, even more (up near the Belfry, for eg). Also: the density is coming up in Victoria. It puts you in the middle of the population of Greater Victoria, not like Langford, which is on the edge. 

It could be fit properly: the main long stand is alright, but probably you'd have to redo all the stands so it works for baseball and football.

 

Yes, I've watched many a game at RAP and I've played there too. I lived up the block for years. You're right that it's more central and currently a better location than Starlight, but you weren't talking about location. You were criticizing the stands, and I greatly prefer the stands at Starlight to RAP which is just a cold, generic concrete stand. I think if we built a completely enclosed stadium at RAP in the style of the end stand at Starlight it would be an absolutely lovely place to watch a game and it would significantly outdraw anything we've seen in Victoria up till now (Edit: perhaps with some tweaks to fix the things you've pointed out ). But Victoria won't fund that, so I'm hoping Langford continues to.

You've criticized Langford before and it irks me because I know people working for the municipality. It may not have much of the charm of Victoria proper, but we wouldn't have a CPL team without them, and the housing crisis in the city would be even worse. Besides, I'm pretty sure RAP is also publicly owned/funded, so I don't get that angle

Edited November 12, 2021 by Aird25

[Aird25]

16 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

In the mid 1970's I saw Chelsea play the Island All-Stars. For some reason Ray Wilkins would not trade his jersey for my Whitecaps cap. Anyway, RAP was an excellent place to watch soccer as the pitch was so close to the grandstand. As I recall, the pitch did not extend into the baseball diamond infield so there was no need to play among the bases. A grandstand could be built against Cook Street, a grandstand extension could be built along Caledonia, and movable bleachers could be built aside the baseball diamond and along Pembroke, This could create a a cozy 6000 or so seat stadium for soccer. I am not sure of the parking availability around that location. Cheers!

I wish I could find the plans again, but I think that exact configuration was pitched recently by Pacific and Vic West

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Yes, I've watched many a game at RAP and I've played there too. I lived up the block for years. You're right that it's more central and currently a better location than Starlight, but you weren't talking about location. You were criticizing the stands, and I greatly prefer the stands at Starlight to RAP which is just a cold, generic concrete stand. I think if we built a completely enclosed stadium at RAP in the style of the end stand at Starlight it would be an absolutely lovely place to watch a game and it would significantly outdraw anything we've seen in Victoria up till now (Edit: perhaps with some tweaks to fix the things you've pointed out ). But Victoria won't fund that, so I'm hoping Langford continues to.

You've criticized Langford before and it irks me because I know people working for the municipality. It may not have much of the charm of Victoria proper, but we wouldn't have a CPL team without them, and the housing crisis in the city would be even worse. Besides, I'm pretty sure RAP is also publicly owned/funded, so I don't get that angle

Fair enough, but I don't know why knowing someone at Langford means not criticising them. Their urban development policy is not fantastic, but that is another question and irrelevant here. What is not is building deficient installations with public money, with serious design flaws. 

If they can get to a modest second stand on the hydropole side, then we are pretty well set: four sides of a pitch with stands around them in a stadium with the right size for CPL. It will become only the 2nd stadium like that in the league, if they get there. But if you have friends at the town hall, suggest that the fix that stupid roof flaw, it's embarrassing.

You are right about the RAP stands, but they can be improved. There is something to start with there at least. BTW, my best friend lived on Chambers 2 blocks away for 20 years, he literally is handing it over to the new owner this week. So I know the area well enough, and saw a PDL game there years ago.

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough, but I don't know why knowing someone at Langford means not criticising them.

It doesn't, but it could be done in a way that isn't so bloody insulting

[NVsoccer]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:19 AM, Aird25 said:

I wish I could find the plans again, but I think that exact configuration was pitched recently by Pacific and Vic West

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_g9eQ1Qw4QhiLM73Jn4Naw2Xfwf1l18C/view?usp=sharing

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Guess there's a possible explanation why Vancouver and Montreal are being talked about as the markets rather than Fraser Valley and Laval:

At launch there wasn't supposed to be a way for the Whitecaps and Montreal to be able to have USSF sanctioned D3 pro level teams again.

[CDNFootballer]

CPL commissioner David Clanachan about Team Canada in soccer and CPL Expansion :

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/montreal-forum-hour-2-hockey-and-soccer-1.1722346

- 24 minute mark for Soccer content

- 5k - 6k Stadiums

- Quebec CPL Club

Edited November 18, 2021 by CDNFootballer

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Does David Clanachan have the language skills needed to also do an interview targeted at the 80% of Quebec's population that are natively francophone? Think CanPL should maybe examine their corporate culture when it comes to acknowledging Canada's bilingualism for why they may have some issues getting people to step up in a Quebec context.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 5/15/2017 at 4:20 PM, lazlo_80 said:

 

might explain why Ottawa isn't very loud right now. 

...the way things used to be in threads like this. That would be a minimum salary of close to $60k this season and woe betide anyone at that point daring to suggest that might be a tad on the high side to be sustainable in the context of a domestic Canadian pro soccer league. Only reason I am posting this is not because of the I told you so angle however but because it caught my eye when I wound up on page 1 by mistake just now that it was an Atletico Madrid fan who tweeted about what was happening in an Ottawa context. That's some coincidence if it happened at random.

[Ansem]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Does David Clanachan have the language skills needed to also do an interview targeted at the 80% of Quebec's population that are natively francophone? Think CanPL should maybe examine their corporate culture when it comes to acknowledging Canada's bilingualism for why they may have some issues getting people to step up in a Quebec context.

Does Gary Bettman? Garber? NBA, MLB and even CFL commish?

 

uh huh

 

right

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ansem

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Have had some very strange replies on here over the years but that one is truly bizarre. Do any of the NHL, MLS, NBA, MLB or even the CFL badly need to add a Quebec franchise at this point? Interestingly the CEBL, the league that would provide a more sensible parallel to CanPL, just added one but I guess they don't have the extra issue that David Clanachan mentioned of finding suitable stadia to complicate matters given any past or present QMJHL arena will do.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot