CPL TV Contract

[Ivan]

49 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Having MLS franchises in Canada's three biggest markets is a BARRIER to CPL, not the other way around!

Your attitude smacks of "I'm alright Jack, screw the rest of Canada, you can watch my TFC on TV". CPL is the league that can bring professional football to many different Canadian cities, and of course is emphasizing development of Canadian talent first. Canadian football desperately needs CPL because in over 30 years MLS has done nothing but discriminate against Canadian youngsters. With CPL that is all about to change.

I realize that MLS filled a need at the time, but with the advent of CPL that need for MLS is gone.

This is a chicken & egg response.  The success of the MLS in Canada largely set up the what appears to be early success of the CPL and encouraged investors to support Canadian soccer.

[matty]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Having MLS franchises in Canada's three biggest markets is a BARRIER to CPL, not the other way around!

Your attitude smacks of "I'm alright Jack, screw the rest of Canada, you can watch my TFC on TV". CPL is the league that can bring professional football to many different Canadian cities, and of course is emphasizing development of Canadian talent first. Canadian football desperately needs CPL because in over 30 years MLS has done nothing but discriminate against Canadian youngsters. With CPL that is all about to change.

I realize that MLS filled a need at the time, but with the advent of CPL that need for MLS is gone.

First MLS isn't 30 years old, second it's been in Canada for under 15 years.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, matty said:

First MLS isn't 30 years old, second it's been in Canada for under 15 years.

You're right matty, I meant over 20 years. But my point is still valid.

Edited March 25, 2019 by dsqpr

[matty]

2 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

You're right matty, I meant over 20 years. But my point is still valid.

I think it is for a portion but to expect the MLS to have given Canadians special status from 96-06 it isn't a valid position 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ivan said:

This is a chicken & egg response.  The success of the MLS in Canada largely set up the what appears to be early success of the CPL and encouraged investors to support Canadian soccer.

The success of CPL depends on markets like Halifax, Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg. So I suppose you have a point in that MLS is pretty massive in Winnipeg, at least with the 5 people who have actually heard of it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, matty said:

I think it is for a portion but to expect the MLS to have given Canadians special status from 96-06 it isn't a valid position 

If it were truly a USA/Canada league, then all USA and Canadian players would be treated as domestic by all teams. I think that is a very fair and valid position (edit: from the date of the first Canadian franchise, of course).

Edited March 25, 2019 by dsqpr

[Kent]

With regards to the Media Pro coverage of the game yesterday, there were one or two "don't show me that, show me the action!" moments, but those aren't exactly unheard of in other soccer broadcasts. On the Cavallini header goal they showed a low to the ground, sideline type of angle that looked pretty good and I've definitely never seen from TSN/Sportsnet coverage before.

[1996]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Having MLS franchises in Canada's three biggest markets is a BARRIER to CPL, not the other way around!

Your attitude smacks of "I'm alright Jack, screw the rest of Canada, you can watch my TFC on TV". CPL is the league that can bring professional football to many different Canadian cities, and of course is emphasizing development of Canadian talent first. Canadian football desperately needs CPL because in over 20 years MLS has done nothing but discriminate against Canadian youngsters. With CPL that is all about to change.

I realize that MLS filled a need at the time, but with the advent of CPL that need for MLS is gone.

The MLS is at the moment a higher level league economically speaking and level of play and players. For now we have a great set up in Canada at the pro level. We have the three Canadian MLS cities playing in a higher league that looks like after so many failed attempts with pro soccer leagues in North America that finally a pro soccer league that looks like it’s here to stay 23 years and going . A league still with a few problem franchises but with a majority of franchises doing well and growing. With the advent of the CPL we now have a developmental type league where players can play and grow and either move on to the MLS or in other leagues in other parts of the world . So this a great time to be a Canadian soccer player something we never had on a consistent basis in Canada before. The CPL has not even kicked a ball yet so know one knows if it will last or go the way of the other pro leagues in the US and Canada. These are different times for soccer in Canada so hopefully the chances of success and sunstainability are much better this time. Once again I’ll repeat my fellow soccer fan of this beautiful game. Be thankful my friend from Winnipeg that the MLS came to Canada’s three biggest and most well known cities internationally and showed the many soccer haters in Canada that pro soccer can work in Canada. This gave impetus to people with money to take a chance and start a Canadian league and bring pro soccer to the smaller centres in Canada like Winnipeg, Halifax, Victoria etc. because without the success of the MLS in Canada the Paul Bernie’s of the world would not be around to help kick start the CPL and please stop making me have to repeat myself but I will gladly keep doing it if I have to. One last thing I do realize that the MLS too is a development type league in itself and is another stepping stone for Canadian players see Davies and Larin for higher level leagues around the world.

Edited March 26, 2019 by 1996

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Having MLS franchises in Canada's three biggest markets is a BARRIER to CPL, not the other way around!

Your attitude smacks of "I'm alright Jack, screw the rest of Canada, you can watch my TFC on TV". CPL is the league that can bring professional football to many different Canadian cities, and of course is emphasizing development of Canadian talent first. Canadian football desperately needs CPL because in over 20 years MLS has done nothing but discriminate against Canadian youngsters. With CPL that is all about to change.

I realize that MLS filled a need at the time, but with the advent of CPL that need for MLS is gone.

We're currently watching Canada's most talented squad in decades, and 13 of the players on the team against French Guiana either play for or got training from MLS teams.  That's not a coincidence.  

There's a place for the CPL, as it provides both additional spots for Canadian players to develop and continues to expand the fan base for Canadian soccer fans.  But there's lots of fans in the big markets that follow MLS and won't bother to follow CPL, and if the MLS teams dropped down to CPL they just wouldn't follow them.

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I don't think the Oakland Raiders were owned by a pension fund either, but they were still sold.

As for your unspoken reality, the CPL is not franchise based because CPL clubs are not franchises that can be bought and sold. If you want to start a club in Saskatoon, go for it: you do not have to buy another CPL team and move it, so why would you? And even if you tried, CPL would have to permit it and my understanding is that they would not. 

I don't think it's inconceivable that teams in the CPL fold or relocate.  MLS folded 2 teams in the early days.  I have immense respect for the Faths for everything they did in Edmonton and the patience they showed developing that market, but they reached a breaking point and had to be talked in to reforming the team after folding it.  I'm not saying I think Edmonton might fold, but rather that I don't think it's inconceivable that a market just doesn't work out.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...and there are at least two that are already showing some early warning signs on that for those on here who are capable of critical thought as opposed to unconditional blind faith. Having franchises fall by the wayside in the early years doesn't mean the league as a whole will fail, because taking Saskatoon seriously means they have a business plan in mind that caters to a lot of smaller markets, so they have more viable possibilities to potentially cycle through than the original CSL did back in the day when the goal the CSA had in mind at the outset was to be the soccer version of the CFL. What they need is to get enough strong expansion possibilities in the works so that one struggling franchise isn't an existential crisis for the entire league. There's an easy way to do that and it will be interesting to see if the necessary compromise gets made at some point.

[Copes]

Chiming in here gents. We can't sit back and pretend MLS is bad for Canada. That's an unfair narrative, perhaps because we're all fanboy-ing so hard about the CPL. I'm super stoked to switch much of my soccer investing into a Canadian league, but if MLS didn't exist I would not have this decision to make. CPL is, without a doubt in my mind, the result of MLS' success. Proving that soccer can garner tons of attention in Canada - specifically our 3 biggest markets -  is why we are willing to start a league and test smaller teams in smaller markets. 

Is it fair to say that the MLS teams will make it harder for CPL to compete in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver? Yes of course, however if those teams weren't there then there would be no CPL to compete with them anyway. 

However I also don't think calling the MLS an American league is shitting on the MLS is any way. That is a factual statement. The MLS IS an American league, and while the three best Canadian teams of all time play in that league, it is still an American league. The roster rules favour American players, and the expansion plans don't include Canada. 

Talking factually about the MLS isn't bashing it. Pretending we never needed the MLS is disingenuous. 

We have the MLS to thank for the league we're all excited about, as well as our current National team which seems to be on the up-and-up. 

Now let's strive to build a soccer product that can compete with the American league. In the short-term though (and likely the medium or long term) it is foolish to think we need (or want) to displace the 3 MLS teams.

[Macksam]

12 hours ago, Watchmen said:

We're currently watching Canada's most talented squad in decades, and 13 of the players on the team against French Guiana either play for or got training from MLS teams.  That's not a coincidence.  

There's a place for the CPL, as it provides both additional spots for Canadian players to develop and continues to expand the fan base for Canadian soccer fans.  But there's lots of fans in the big markets that follow MLS and won't bother to follow CPL, and if the MLS teams dropped down to CPL they just wouldn't follow them.

That's a broad statement to make and you and I don't know what the exact effect of such a thing happening would do to the fanbase. Would a portion of fans disappear if it's not MLS? Sure, maybe.

Anyhow, I don't see the issue with having 3 MLS teams along with the CPL. Any talks of them joining up is a conversation best had 15-20 years down the road when the soccer landscape in this country evolves and fleshes out even further. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Macksam

[Guest]

On 3/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, Ivan said:

This is a chicken & egg response.  The success of the MLS in Canada largely set up the what appears to be early success of the CPL and encouraged investors to support Canadian soccer.

Actually, it is the 2026 World Cup that has been the catalyst for the CPL at this time and I'm sure Clanachan has said so explicitly, although I can't be bothered to dig up the reference; just as the 1994 World Cup was the catalyst for MLS (although MLS started just after that World Cup). And is is rather obvious that CPL would be stronger if it did not have MLS teams in its three biggest markets.

I find the suggestion that MLS in Canada somehow "inspired" CPL laughable. As if the MLS watching football fans in Canada would not be interested in football if the MLS teams weren't there! So I'm not surprised to see the people making this absurd claim backing it up with nothing but hot air.

[ted]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

I find the suggestion that MLS in Canada somehow "inspired" CPL laughable. As if the MLS watching football fans in Canada would not be interested in football if the MLS teams weren't there! So I'm not surprised to see the people making this absurd claim backing it up with nothing but hot air.

Nothing but hot air? You mean like your opinion?

Without the three MLS teams the CanPL would almost certainly NOT have been a viable proposition. The success of those teams in paid spectators, sponsorships and TV ratings showed the business community that there are people out there willing to pay.

Will the CanPL overtake (and maybe absorb) them someday? Probably. But we must acknowledge that TFC, Impact and Whitecaps are owed at least some recognition for the survival and recent growth of pro soccer in Canada.

[Ams1984]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Actually, it is the 2026 World Cup that has been the catalyst for the CPL at this time and I'm sure Clanachan has said so explicitly, although I can't be bothered to dig up the reference; just as the 1994 World Cup was the catalyst for MLS (although MLS started just after that World Cup). And is is rather obvious that CPL would be stronger if it did not have MLS teams in its three biggest markets.

I find the suggestion that MLS in Canada somehow "inspired" CPL laughable. As if the MLS watching football fans in Canada would not be interested in football if the MLS teams weren't there! So I'm not surprised to see the people making this absurd claim backing it up with nothing but hot air.

The three Canadian mls clubs showed that pro soccer could work here. That matters. 

[1996]

3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Actually, it is the 2026 World Cup that has been the catalyst for the CPL at this time and I'm sure Clanachan has said so explicitly, although I can't be bothered to dig up the reference; just as the 1994 World Cup was the catalyst for MLS (although MLS started just after that World Cup). And is is rather obvious that CPL would be stronger if it did not have MLS teams in its three biggest markets.

I find the suggestion that MLS in Canada somehow "inspired" CPL laughable. As if the MLS watching football fans in Canada would not be interested in football if the MLS teams weren't there! So I'm not surprised to see the people making this absurd claim backing it up with nothing but hot air.

Sorry my Winnipeg friend I think the cold cold weather of your lovely city is affecting your thought process, but don’t worry July is a few months away so that’s only what about 3 more months of -20 weather before you might get some respite from the cold ?.  It’s not about the the soccer fans it’s about the guys with money. The guys who saw the success the MLS had in the three Canadian cities to give these money guys the push to spend their money on pro soccer in Canada and starting a pro league . The last try of a Canadian pro soccer league died in what the early 90’s with the death of the CSL . Why was not another Canadian league started after that? Why did it take almost what 25 years for another Canadian pro soccer league to start ? It’s funny that now a new Canadian soccer league is starting only after a few good years of Canadian MLS teams , coincidence . Don’t think so , but you keep believing what you want it’s all good . Once again I’ll repeat the CPL is happening because of the success of the MLS in Canada. Green Park Homes in the Toronto area is owned by a soccer loving guy. They have built a good portion of homes  in the Toronto area and they have been at if for years . Strange that after so many years they finally get involved with putting their money in pro soccer with ownership in York9,   I wonder why ? Can it have to do with the success of TFC ? Nah can’t be it’s nothing but hot air , ya ok!

Edited March 27, 2019 by 1996

[Winnipeg Fury]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

Sorry my Winnipeg friend I think the cold cold weather of your lovely city is affecting your thought process, but don’t worry July is a few months away so that’s only what about 3 more months of -20 weather before you might get some respite from the cold ?.  It’s not about the the soccer fans it’s about the guys with money. The guys who saw the success the MLS had in the three Canadian cities to give these money guys the push to spend their money on pro soccer in Canada and starting a pro league . The last try of a Canadian pro soccer league died in what the early 90’s with the death of the CSL . Why was not another Canadian league started after that? Why did it take almost what 25 years for another Canadian pro soccer league to start ? It’s funny that now a new Canadian soccer league is starting only after a few good years of Canadian MLS teams , coincidence . Don’t think so , but you keep believing what you want it’s all good . Once again I’ll repeat the CPL is happening because of the success of the MLS in Canada. Green Park Homes in the Toronto area is owned by a soccer loving guy. They have built a good portion of homes  in the Toronto area and they have been at if for years . Strange that after so many years they finally get involved with putting their money in pro soccer with ownership in York9,   I wonder why ? Can it have to do with the success of TFC ? Nah can’t be it’s nothing but hot air , ya ok!

 

The success of MLS probably did play a part, but honestly, you can't compare the old CSL to CPL.  The CSL literally did not even have a rudimentary business plan.  They had nothing.  The Winnipeg Fury, Canadian champions in 1992, never had an ownership group.  The CSL had no money behind it,.....just passion. 

One reason another stab at a Canadian league took so long, was because we sold our crown jewels, Canada's three largest markets, to MLS.  Not many people would say a pro league in Canada is viable without it's three largest markets, regardless of which sport.  

MLS by taking our three largest markets, essentially colonized Canadian soccer, and propped up their own shaky league in the process.  They effectively killed us as a soccer nation.  Treat American players as domestic, Canadians as imports........and watched us drop down the FIFA rankings.

MLS has been successful.......at making their owners money,.......but an overall failure for Canadian soccer.  And that's why we have CPL today.

 

 

 

[Ivan]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Actually, it is the 2026 World Cup that has been the catalyst for the CPL at this time and I'm sure Clanachan has said so explicitly, although I can't be bothered to dig up the reference; just as the 1994 World Cup was the catalyst for MLS (although MLS started just after that World Cup). And is is rather obvious that CPL would be stronger if it did not have MLS teams in its three biggest markets.

I find the suggestion that MLS in Canada somehow "inspired" CPL laughable. As if the MLS watching football fans in Canada would not be interested in football if the MLS teams weren't there! So I'm not surprised to see the people making this absurd claim backing it up with nothing but hot air.

That's funny.  My opinion (and that's all it is) is hot air, but your opinion is pure fact.  Talk about laughable and absurd.

[Watchmen]

29 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

One reason another stab at a Canadian league took so long, was because we sold our crown jewels, Canada's three largest markets, to MLS.  Not many people would say a pro league in Canada is viable without it's three largest markets, regardless of which sport.  

MLS by taking our three largest markets, essentially colonized Canadian soccer, and propped up their own shaky league in the process.  They effectively killed us as a soccer nation.  Treat American players as domestic, Canadians as imports........and watched us drop down the FIFA rankings.

MLS has been successful.......at making their owners money,.......but an overall failure for Canadian soccer.  And that's why we have CPL today.

 

 

 

This is complete BS. 

1) The CSA tried to form in a league again in..the early 2000s?  With that CPSL (I forget the exact abbreviations).  Never got it off the ground at all.  There was so little progress from Canadian soccer that it took the fans actually going out to form a Cup competition for the teams playing in the USL/A-League.  There was zero progress on a domestic league in any form when MLS came along and had Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal join.

2) The Canadian soccer team was sliding down the FIFA rankings LONG before MLS came to Canada.  

3) The CPL has played zero games so far.  The Canadian men's team is the best it's been in decades.  13 of the squad against French Guiana have either played or currently play for MLS teams.

If you want to say that Canadian soccer is going to be better for having the CPL, I'll 100% agree.  Again, it's going to give more players opportunities and more fans (either hard core or casual) exposure to the sport.  These are good things.  But to dismiss the good things that MLS has done for Canadian soccer (even if more could have been done) is gaslighting the issue.

[baulderdash77]

47 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

MLS has been successful.......at making their owners money,.......but an overall failure for Canadian soccer.  And that's why we have CPL today.

It’s so unsuccessful for Canadian Soccer that 13/23 members of our last game came from or played in MLS at some point including 5 starters currently in MLS.

MLS has become a good thing for Canadian Soccer.  It’s take. A while but it’s good.  

The CPL will be huge for Canadian Soccer in a few years.  Most people running Football Manager (I realize it’s a SIM) eventually get to a point where almost every Canadian player come from CPL or MLS at some point.  

[Bison44]

Seems like everyone is forgetting Edmonton Ottawa and NASL.   If MLS showed that the biggest and best CDN markets could support soccer, but we already knew that from the original NASL.  The later CDN NASL clubs showed that you dont have to be toronto or vancouver and still run a club.  To me that was the missing link...Montreal and Vancouver had teams for years and could support a club already.  MLS poached our crown jewels but thats as far as they were ever going to go.  And they were never exactly even handed with CDN players..even now.  But when Ottawa and Edmonton proved there was an appetite for soccer in smaller markets outside of MLS,  I'm sure the idea of the CPL really started to gain traction.   

I bash MLS for plenty of things but 100% agree we wouldnt be here without them.  And I dont even mind if the 3 big clubs never join CPL.  But I am sure glad that pro soccer has spread across the country, MLS was never going to do that, we had to do it ourselves.  Kudos to all the supporters and especially in Calgary, WPG and the Halifax that now have their own team to follow.  Lets hope this first year is a good one and teams from Quebec and Sask quickly get on board next year.

[matty]

dear mediapro

please release the cpl broadcast info so we can get this thread back on track and then watch soccer.

kind regards and thank you for your time

matty

[Winnipeg Fury]

9 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

It’s so unsuccessful for Canadian Soccer that 13/23 members of our last game came from or played in MLS at some point including 5 starters currently in MLS.

MLS has become a good thing for Canadian Soccer.  It’s take. A while but it’s good.  

The CPL will be huge for Canadian Soccer in a few years.  Most people running Football Manager (I realize it’s a SIM) eventually get to a point where almost every Canadian player come from CPL or MLS at some point.  

 

5 starters in MLS......after having Canadian tams in that league for 12 years..........and ceding our biggest markets to a foreign league.......sorry folks.......that's is GARBAGE.  That is why we have CPL. 

CSL was around for 6 years and put MLS player development to shame.

No doubt it has made the game more popular, but in terms of Canadian player development, it has been an absolute BUST.

[matty]

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

5 starters in MLS......after having Canadian tams in that league for 12 years..........and ceding our biggest markets to a foreign league.......sorry folks.......that's is GARBAGE.  That is why we have CPL. 

CSL was around for 6 years and put MLS player development to shame.

No doubt it has made the game more popular, but in terms of Canadian player development, it has been an absolute BUST.

it's a generation in and with only 3 teams who have fostered some solid talent including tabla and davies, given dudes like osorio a place to go pro that didn't exist prior. you sound blinded by an irrational hate. the cpl is designed to fill gaps left in development that cannot be covered by 3 teams. csl had what a dozen teams at its peak? did you actually expect canada to be a top 3 concacaf team with only 3 teams? no right? maybe it's time to realize the cpl isn't here to replace mls because the mls is doing fuck all but rather meant to fill a void.

now for the love of satan can we leave this fucking thread to broadcast news shit instead of this moronic crap.

Edited March 27, 2019 by matty