Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, I was just saying that you have to judge a player by how he is doing on his team as well. Which went along with a bit of rhetorical jibing the TFC fanboys who overstate every bit of scrub that comes their way. Don't you think?

In the Voyageurs Cup final, who was better, Teibert or Osorio? The latter had a weak game in a critical match, then was the guy that flubbed the definitive penalty. He looked quite a bit like the sort of player some laugh about mockingly when Teibert gets mentioned.

Over summer and into fall of the MLS 2021 season Teibert was starting and playing on a team that had gone on an excellent run of form, during months. One of the best teams in MLS the last 3-4 months of the season. I'd also say he was solid and was a piece of that good run; this year it was not the case, he was weak, probably even weaker than the Caps. At times he was hapless and the team covered for him. So your club play matters, how the club around you is doing matters too. 

That said, all I was doing was using Teibert as a foil, RS's reading comprehension limitations notwithstanding. 

Regardless, as we saw, Osorio was excellent for Canada, consistently; he was one of our critical players and IMO his goal at Azteca was the most important of the qualilfying campaign.

Finally: my point about the club form mattering is backed by the Montreal core for our NT, with Montreal having by far the best season of the three MLS teams. Now watch them argue Laryea is not on loan to TFC, Henry is still a TFC player and Kaye is on the national team thanks to TFC.

 

 

Everything you say about Teibert here was true, yet I am left with the impression your opinion is informed by club allegiance. Others seem to feel the same way, which I don't see as being a coincidence. And nothing personal by the way, you're a great contributor here, especially on the Spain stuff, where you are clearly the expert around here. I appreciate your insights on a lot of football related stuff, actually. And I have had my disagreements with RS on a bunch of things, but you know there is nothing wrong with his reading comprehension, so no need to insult. 

And on the TFC fanboys overstating Toronto players? I have never felt this way, personally. I am not from the GTA, but I am a Toronto FC fan, so maybe I have blinders when it comes to that. Honestly though, I have never gotten the impression Toronto fans rate Toronto players unduly, and I would say the same about Montreal or Vancouver fans. I just don't see it. 

[PopePouri]

3 hours ago, RS said:

You pretty much have to go back to the Floro days (2016 and earlier) to get to a time where Teibert and Osorio would even be in the same conversation. From 2017 onward, Osorio's performed like a TAM-level MLS player and carried that over into the national team.

This is no diss on Teibert, who's an honest professional with an incredible work ethic. It's just that the level of the national team has long since passed him by, which is no shame.

I will echo everyone else in here in that, by following UT's own criteria, Laryea should be one of his favourite players on the national team. Richie plays with an edge that no one else does, and is a master in shithouse tactics that UT has often advocated our previously naive national team to employ more of. Laryea's done this without ever harming the team, and one could even suggest that he's set an example of how to do so that certain other players (Cavallini, mostly) should aspire to.

Given that Laryea so perfectly embodies these qualities that UT's been asking for (along with many others, myself included) to properly compete in CONCACAF, I can only come to the conclusion that it's Richie's employment at TFC that is the offending issue.

I addressed it a bit above, but I agree that Teibert has looked good this past season.

Unfortunately for him, the pool expanded so quickly that there's really no need to bring in a near 30-year-old central midfielder that would be, at best, 6th or 7th in depth chart, in the months leading up to a World Cup.

I don't really agree with this. It was just a few months ago that we were worried about the CM depth, and shouts for Arfield to come back. Plus Herdman was consistently calling Wotherspoon and Fraser ahead of him during this WC qualifying cycle. With respect to those players, there's very little separating them from someone like Tiebert.

I mean the depth is so much better now than 2018, but we still have some ways to go until we think a player like Tiebert shouldn't be involved. Someone that has almost 300 MLS appearances. In my opinion he should be a lot higher on the depth chart especially on a relatively young team.

And yes, he's limited, he doesn't win his duels, he's not quick, he barely makes a forward pass. But our CM pool allows him to be paired with others that cover his deficiences.

Edited November 4, 2022 by PopePouri

[RS]

8 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

I don't really agree with this. It was just a few months ago that we were worried about the CM depth, and shouts for Arfield to come back. Plus Herdman was consistently calling Wotherspoon and Fraser ahead of him during this WC qualifying cycle. With respect to those players, there's very little separating them from someone like Tiebert.

I mean the depth is so much better now than 2018, but we still have some ways to go until we think a player like Tiebert shouldn't be involved. Someone that has almost 300 MLS appearances. In my opinion he should be a lot higher on the depth chart especially on a relatively young team.

And yes, he's limited, he doesn't win his duels, he's not quick, he barely makes a forward pass. But our CM pool allows him to be paired with others that cover his deficiences.

Perhaps he should have been called in some of those earlier WCQ camps, but I'm not sure how I'm wrong in saying he's 6th or 7th at best in the depth chart.

Who should he be higher than when considering Eustaquio, Hutchinson, Osorio, Piette, Kaye and Kone are the ones likely going to the World Cup? Maybe Kaye, but even that's a stretch given MAK's skillset and athletic profile versus Teibert's.

[Unnamed Trialist]

In the new One Soccer video released today they predict the core 16 players Herdman referred to; neither Wheeler nor Platt have Osorio, which is odd (unless his health is really dire), but both have Laryea.

Both put Ugbo as the preferred sub up top, neither think Cavallini is there.

Neither think we'll need a sub at the back.

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In the new One Soccer video released today they predict the core 16 players Herdman referred to; neither Wheeler nor Platt have Osorio, which is odd (unless his health is really dire), but both have Laryea.

Both put Ugbo as the preferred sub up top, neither think Cavallini is there.

Neither think we'll need a sub at the back.

They both had concerns about his health/fitness and they said as much. It had nothing to do with Osorio's quality. 

[PopePouri]

No I'd agree he is 6th or 7th especially after the emergence of Kone, but that's one or two injuries from making the team. 

I just don't like the narrative that he should be written off, and "the level of national team has long passed him by". He should have been there and there abouts in the conversation.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Perhaps he should have been called in some of those earlier WCQ camps, but I'm not sure how I'm wrong in saying he's 6th or 7th at best in the depth chart.

Who should he be higher than when considering Eustaquio, Hutchinson, Osorio, Piette, Kaye and Kone are the ones likely going to the World Cup? Maybe Kaye, but even that's a stretch given MAK's skillset and athletic profile versus Teibert's.

This makes all the difference when it comes to Kaye versus Teibert. MAK may dip in and out of form, but these things have kept him ahead of Teibert, I believe, and I don't expect that to change. I feel that Teibert is underrated, but I find it hard to argue that he wouldn't be 6th or 7th at best. 

The strange thing (perhaps to @PopePouri's point) is that usually someone who's 6th or 7th at best in the depth chart gets a couple of looks here or there, but somehow that hasn't happened for Teibert. The fact that Herdman really seemed to like Teibert early on makes it even stranger. I am not saying there was a fallout between them, or something, because I think it was just a matter of Herdman going with other players. Just because Teibert could theoretically be that 6th or 7th option doesn't mean he has to be, unfortunately for Rusty.  

It seems that Herdman likes to keep a tight knit squad, so I think it's just unfortunate Teibert has been on the outside of that. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get a call in the big January 2021 camp? The one where we didn't play a friendly and the one that Flores was supposed to attend but couldn't because of the England restrictions on travel. This was the same camp we called everyone under the sun, even Ricketts was there. Anyone remember if Russel attended that? I feel like he did.

At any rate, whether he did or not, I wonder if he can play his way back on? Hutchinson is retiring, Wotherspoon will probably retire soon (from Canada), and so our depth post WC may look something like this:

1. Eustaquio  
2. Osorio
3. Piette
4. Kone
5. Kaye
6. Nelson?
7. Choniere?
8. Fraser?
9. ......Teibert?

I mean, why not? He's basically the same age as Osorio. Jury is out on Priso, Smith, Okello, etc. I am not saying he should absolutely be in the mix, but I kind of hope Herdman opens things up a bit for next cycle and goes a bit experimental for friendlies, thus expanding the pool.

By the time that happens though (if it even happens) we'll probably be in late 2023/early 2024 with a little over 2 years until the next world cup. Any of those question marks may have clearly surpassed Teibert, who may have begun to decline by then. 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

 

[kacbru]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

And on the TFC fanboys overstating Toronto players? I have never felt this way, personally. I am not from the GTA, but I am a Toronto FC fan, so maybe I have blinders when it comes to that. Honestly though, I have never gotten the impression Toronto fans rate Toronto players unduly, and I would say the same about Montreal or Vancouver fans. I just don't see it.

Well it was just a few months ago that Lucas MacNaughton scored a goal and there were a lot of calls for him to get a call-up. I think it's great for him that he gets the opportunity to train with the team for Bahrain, but from what I've seen (admittedly limited), I'd be shocked to see him on the field. 

[Bison44]

Yeah Mcnaughton and Waterman are hopefully still improving and would only be included with an eye to the future.  Lareya has been top notch for CMNT and TFC.  With his stint back in TO after his english adventure it didnt click with the italians and he didnt look his usual self.  But with his skill set he'll be off the bench if we need offense and prob start a game in Qatar, Thats the way herdman has been running it...I dont see that he all of a sudden changes it.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, Sal333 said:

They both had concerns about his health/fitness and they said as much. It had nothing to do with Osorio's quality. 

They had Hutch though, and he's played less than Osorio in the last 3 months.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, Obinna said:

This makes all the difference when it comes to Kaye versus Teibert. MAK may dip in and out of form, but these things have kept him ahead of Teibert, I believe, and I don't expect that to change. I feel that Teibert is underrated, but I find it hard to argue that he wouldn't be 6th or 7th at best. 

The strange thing (perhaps to @PopePouri's point) is that usually someone who's 6th or 7th at best in the depth chart gets a couple of looks here or there, but somehow that hasn't happened for Teibert. The fact that Herdman really seemed to like Teibert early on makes it even stranger. I am not saying there was a fallout between them, or something, because I think it was just a matter of Herdman going with other players. Just because Teibert could theoretically be that 6th or 7th option doesn't mean he has to be, unfortunately for Rusty.  

It seems that Herdman likes to keep a tight knit squad, so I think it's just unfortunate Teibert has been on the outside of that. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get a call in the big January 2021 camp? The one where we didn't play a friendly and the one that Flores was supposed to attend but couldn't because of the England restrictions on travel. This was the same camp we called everyone under the sun, even Ricketts was there. Anyone remember if Russel attended that? I feel like he did.

At any rate, whether he did or not, I wonder if he can play his way back on? Hutchinson is retiring, Wotherspoon will probably retire soon (from Canada), and so our depth post WC may look something like this:

1. Eustaquio  
2. Osorio
3. Piette
4. Kone
5. Kaye
6. Nelson?
7. Choniere?
8. Fraser?
9. ......Teibert?

I mean, why not? He's basically the same age as Osorio. Jury is out on Priso, Smith, Okello, etc. I am not saying he should absolutely be in the mix, but I kind of hope Herdman opens things up a bit for next cycle and goes a bit experimental for friendlies, thus expanding the pool.

By the time that happens though (if it even happens) we'll probably be in late 2023/early 2024 with a little over 2 years until the next world cup. Any of those question marks may have clearly surpassed Teibert, who may have begun to decline by then. 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

 

Most Whitecaps fans who know the team well realize he's slipped and could be replaced for the better. Or moved to the bench for Caps.

In any case, the mids we have to look at going forward, ignoring those called for Bahrein, are Metcalfe, Lucas Días, Raposo. You'd get Wotherspoon into the mix before recalling Teibert.

[Sal333]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

They had Hutch though, and he's played less than Osorio in the last 3 months.

From what I gathered it was just they were more certain of Hutch being fit than Oso. The fact that Oso may have had a concussion worried them.

But we may have bigger issues with Davies' injury. (The inner Buddha in me keeps reminding me that we topped CONCACA with Davies missing half the games. ).

Edited November 5, 2022 by Sal333

[BearcatSA]

30 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Most Whitecaps fans who know the team well realize he's slipped and could be replaced for the better. Or moved to the bench for Caps.

In any case, the mids we have to look at going forward, ignoring those called for Bahrein, are Metcalfe, Lucas Días, Raposo. You'd get Wotherspoon into the mix before recalling Teibert.

I agree with almost all of this except that I am not convinced as to how much more upside Raposo has as a regular starter (even though he improved considerably this past season).  The tactical switch of going with a naturally left footed at LWB/LB will likely continue into next season (ditto the right footed Gressel on the right), and I think the back up on the left will also be a left footer (the plan is to keep Gutierrez, for now), so I think Raposo might have to be a back up to Gressel.

A guy who exceeded expectations in a back up wingback role, Godinho, has yet to be re-signed, so I wonder if/when a new deal gets done.

Teibert?  With the NT, he is in at level in the depth chart where you'd be looking at a younger prospect, ditto Akindele.

[BearcatSA]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:06 AM, jonovision said:

I don't trust Henry on the field as he lacks pace and hasn't played enough recently, but I have no concerns about him losing his cool.

Losing your cool manifests in different ways, like diving in for a crunching, "hero" tackle to make a statement to an opponent you've been in a pissing match against.

His atleticism isn't an issue.  Decision making is.

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Losing your cool manifests in different ways, like diving in for a crunching, "hero" tackle to make a statement to an opponent you've been in a pissing match against.

His atleticism isn't an issue.  Decision making is.

I don't have an issue with his decision making in important matches with Canada either. I do think there's a good chance of him lunging in because he is a step behind the pace.

[Bigandy]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:28 PM, PopePouri said:

No I'd agree he is 6th or 7th especially after the emergence of Kone, but that's one or two injuries from making the team. 

I just don't like the narrative that he should be written off, and "the level of national team has long passed him by". He should have been there and there abouts in the conversation.

I am not sure he would be 6th or 7th.  My list isnt in order but 1-6 are for sure ahead of tiebert. 7-15 all probably have higher ceilings than tiebert and would make more sense at camp poutine. 

 

On 11/4/2022 at 4:38 PM, Obinna said:

This makes all the difference when it comes to Kaye versus Teibert. MAK may dip in and out of form, but these things have kept him ahead of Teibert, I believe, and I don't expect that to change. I feel that Teibert is underrated, but I find it hard to argue that he wouldn't be 6th or 7th at best. 

The strange thing (perhaps to @PopePouri's point) is that usually someone who's 6th or 7th at best in the depth chart gets a couple of looks here or there, but somehow that hasn't happened for Teibert. The fact that Herdman really seemed to like Teibert early on makes it even stranger. I am not saying there was a fallout between them, or something, because I think it was just a matter of Herdman going with other players. Just because Teibert could theoretically be that 6th or 7th option doesn't mean he has to be, unfortunately for Rusty.  

It seems that Herdman likes to keep a tight knit squad, so I think it's just unfortunate Teibert has been on the outside of that. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he get a call in the big January 2021 camp? The one where we didn't play a friendly and the one that Flores was supposed to attend but couldn't because of the England restrictions on travel. This was the same camp we called everyone under the sun, even Ricketts was there. Anyone remember if Russel attended that? I feel like he did.

At any rate, whether he did or not, I wonder if he can play his way back on? Hutchinson is retiring, Wotherspoon will probably retire soon (from Canada), and so our depth post WC may look something like this:

1. Eustaquio  
2. Osorio
3. Piette
4. Kone
5. Kaye
6. Nelson?
7. Choniere?
8. Fraser?
9. ......Teibert?

I mean, why not? He's basically the same age as Osorio. Jury is out on Priso, Smith, Okello, etc. I am not saying he should absolutely be in the mix, but I kind of hope Herdman opens things up a bit for next cycle and goes a bit experimental for friendlies, thus expanding the pool.

By the time that happens though (if it even happens) we'll probably be in late 2023/early 2024 with a little over 2 years until the next world cup. Any of those question marks may have clearly surpassed Teibert, who may have begun to decline by then. 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

 

Looking at a post world cup squad, I have listed a bunch of options below. I think its reasonable to assume between 5-7 CM get picked in a window. 1-5 are extremely solid. That leaves 1 or 2 spots. Fraser seems to be much higher in the depth chart than tiebert. 7-15 all have higher ceilings than tiebert so I would imagine we would prefer to take a risk on a youngster to be our number 6 or 7. If any of the guys from 7-15 take a development step, then they could become the number 7. In 2-3 years, we should have at least a few of these guys, plus some new hidden gems (like kone) emerge and fill in the lower end depth at cm. #16-17 are unlikely as they both will likely retire soon (Post gold cup?) #18-19 are unlikely scenarios but Herdman could consider it as an extreme back up if he wants to go with only 5-6 cm call ups. 

Essentially, the only possible time for tiebert to get a look in, would be in the short gap between post world cup/gold cup and 1-2 years. Is there any value in bringing in tiebert as a 7th rated depth chart player who probably won't play, when you can call up nelson instead? Is the drop off with nelson (with another year of development as that is when we would face these questions) so significant that we need tiebert to fill the #7 depth guy role? I just don't see it. 

1. stach
2.Piette
3. Oso
4.MAK
5. Kone
6. Fraser
7. Nelson
8. Priso 
9.Zouhir 
10. Smith
11. Chouniere
12. Okello
13.JMR as an 8?
14. Dias
15. Smith
16. Hoillet as a 10? retired?
17. Spoony... Retired? 
18. David as a 10? 
19. Laryea getting minutes at cm?

Not to mention
20. Ben Paton
21. Simon Colyn
22. Jesse Costa
23. Gabriel Pellegrino
24. Coupland?
25. Frank Sturing?

I like entertaining the idea of Tiebert, but I just dont see the merit for the long term planning of our program. 

 
 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bigandy

[BearcatSA]

On 11/5/2022 at 3:16 PM, jonovision said:

I do think there's a good chance of him lunging in because he is a step behind the pace.

And yet, I will give him props for not doing that on that one wing attack into the p.a. early in the match vs Mexico in Edmonton. 

If he plays, I hope he delivers.  Herdman has publicly pumped up his tires so he clearly sees him as a key piece of what he has available to him in the player pool.

[Kadenge]

Herdman telling Richie he's not starting v Belgium  Laryea is all muscle  zero fat

 

[Lurker]

Every time a player thread lights up the anxiety kicks in because I'm worried they're hurt... this happening to anyone else?  (It's only Saturday... four days until Christmas).

[rkomar]

Richie probably was hurt if that's the news he got.

[VinceA]

[RS]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

Is it weird that Kaka posted a pic with Laryea but not Larin? You'd think he would've run into Cyle as well.

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, RS said:

Is it weird that Kaka posted a pic with Laryea but not Larin? You'd think he would've run into Cyle as well.

Maybe he didn't like him?

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Maybe he didn't like him?

I recall he's been very complementary of him as a player, at least. 

[RS]

57 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Maybe he didn't like him?

He follows Larin on IG (but not Laryea).

It was probably just a timing thing.