Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[RS]

53 minutes ago, El Diego said:

This is what confuses me the most about this whole thing. From what I've seen of UT's posts about this topic (i.e. doing what it takes to win, not being moral about things that happen on the pitch -- which btw I agree with him completely and have backed him up on these points in the past) I would think Laryea would be one of his favourite players!

It's because Laryea is a TFC fan favourite.

He had the same weirdo obsession with denigrating Jonathan Osorio for years, even suggesting that Russell Teibert should be called over him.

[El Diego]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's not a prime example, it's an example, and not even the example others are citing here. 

Anyways, it was Armando Villareal the MLS ref, he apparently spoke to him as if he knew him, from what I read, because he did. So he was trying to get a ref he knew to card a rival for no good reason when it made no difference to what really mattered.

If you think players regularly act badly when someone spits in their general direction without hitting them you haven't watched pro football. The vast majority would not blink an eye.

You called him 'mentally unstable'. The only example you citing was the spitting one, which led to zero disciplinary action. I don't even disagree with your general point -- he wasn't good last match and isn't a guaranteed starter (though certainly he will get minutes). What are the other examples others are citing? Bad defending or not getting calls when going down? 

We provide you with facts that he has literally never gotten a red card and has conceded one penalty in his pro career. If you still believe he is 'mentally unstable' then I don't know what to say. The only guy we have to worry about being 'mentally unstable' and costing the team for no reason is Lucas Cavallini.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, El Diego said:

You called him 'mentally unstable'. The only example you citing was the spitting one, which led to zero disciplinary action. I don't even disagree with your general point -- he wasn't good last match and isn't a guaranteed starter (though certainly he will get minutes). What are the other examples others are citing? Bad defending or not getting calls when going down? 

We provide you with facts that he has literally never gotten a red card and has conceded one penalty in his pro career. If you still believe he is 'mentally unstable' then I don't know what to say. The only guy we have to worry about being 'mentally unstable' and costing the team for no reason is Lucas Cavallini.

Or maybe "wacko" is better; I also used "psycho". We get a bit of that from Cavallini, Henry, Laryea.

@El Diegois right that I like these sort of players, or at least don't like it when coaches weed them out of their locker rooms, which is something Guardiola tends to do. Did it with Eto'o, for example, ostracized Ibra. I like to have a team with contrasts and that is something that I like about our national team, it is full of contrasts and diverse characters. 

Thing is, it also depends on the position and the game circumstances. I'm more enthusiastic about edgy players in attack, as sometimes you need that nuttiness to break open a defence or inspire the rest of the team. In defence I normally prefer serenity and reliability, and I am sure I am not alone, which is what we get from Adekugbe. Compare the two: Sam is far more reliable on defence, and has been just as effective or more so in offence for Canada over the last year and a bit. No comparison.

As I posted previously, for a gutsy character play, that Johnston shot way out of position vs. Mexico where Larin scores on the rebound. You can also be edgy or get edgy results and be a calm, focused player; Tajon is very even keel and ignores the nitpicky stuff, including dirty fouling; so does David, Johnston, even Vitória. So it is not about defending the wacko types for their own sake, and less so if you can get what wackos might give you from calmer guys who just play it straight and compete to the limit.

 

[Bigandy]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's not a prime example, it's an example, and not even the example others are citing here. 

Anyways, it was Armando Villareal the MLS ref, he apparently spoke to him as if he knew him, from what I read, because he did. So he was trying to get a ref he knew to card a rival for no good reason when it made no difference to what really mattered.

If you think players regularly act badly when someone spits in their general direction without hitting them you haven't watched pro football. The vast majority would not blink an eye.

I completely disagree. He was trying to get the ref to card a rival for what is a very good reason. Spitting is a straight red every time and it was also during covid. Next, getting an opposing player a red card at that stage of the octo would have weakened panama for their next match. At the time we were worried about panama and weakening their team would have been advantageous to us. Also, the ref now is going to be extra vigilant for dark arts. Maybe laryea bringing attention to the spitting made it so a panama player was less likely to do something that could injure one of our guys. However the biggest reason why I disagree with your opinion is because we came into qualifying with a new team mentality. We were no longer going to ignore the dark art. Instead we are going to stand up to it as a team. If laryea didn't acknowledge it, we are doing exactly what old Canada may have done. We all agree that there is a line to standing up for yourself vs losing control. All evidence is that laryea stood up for himself and did not lose control. 

Like others have said, what was the negative consequence of Laryeas reaction? It feels like you are saying his reaction was not severe enough to warrant a card or a consequence of any kind, yet let's rip him to shreds because there could have been a consequence if he had not controlled his emotions so well. 

Insulting the rest of the board for not watching pro football is absolutely laughable (We wouldnt be on this board if we didnt watch it) and such a terrible way to justify your own opinion. "If you don't agree with my opinion, its because you dont watch the sport".

Spitting in someones direction because youre dehydrated and clearing your mouth is one thing, but thats not what the panama player did. He spat towards laryea with intention. Maybe the intention was to hit him and he missed or maybe it was to get close to him but not actually hit him. Either way, it is probably one of the biggest signs of disrespect and not a normal spitting occurrence like your statements suggests.  There are many players at a higher level who have reacted way more than laryea (Rijkaard and voller to name 1). 

You've claimed he was willing to be baited into taking a yellow - False. You cant criticize a player for something he didnt do.
you claimed he may have cost us a W - False. You cant criticize a player for something that didnt happen.
You claim he lost focus - I think this is false. We won the game. What evidence is there that he lost focus? Sure he reacted, but the second the game resumed, he had focus. 

This just feels like you have a hate against laryea and your trying to make up some weird justification which includes tossing out insults to the rest of the board.  

[RS]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you think players regularly act badly when someone spits in their general direction without hitting them you haven't watched pro football. The vast majority would not blink an eye.

Great point. Pro football in CONCACAF is renowned for its virtuous sportsmanship and fair play.

[BearcatSA]

Many, many top teams have a lightning rod for antagonism, a wind up artist, a sh*t disturber on the field.  He is ours.  Fortintately, he can do much more than on the field (when he is on form).

[Gian-Luca]

13 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Many, many top teams have a lightning rod for antagonism, a wind up artist, a sh*t disturber on the field.  He is ours.  Fortintately, he can do much more than on the field (when he is on form).

Then there is also Doneil Henry, who can be a shit disturber when he's not on the field, but taking the knee by the corner flag.

Then there is that grey category, when Tajon can be a shit disturber when he on the field, but technically just off the pitch during an injury time out when he punches the ball out of a Mexican's hands (see the brawl against Mexico in Edmonton for reference).

[BearcatSA]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

Then there is also Doneil Henry, who can be a shit disturber when he's not on the field, but taking the knee by the corner flag.

Then there is that grey category, when Tajon can be a shit disturber when he on the field, but technically just off the pitch during an injury time out when he punches the ball out of a Mexican's hands (see the brawl against Mexico in Edmonton for reference).

I don't trust Henry on the field, frankly.  Laryea, however, I do trust to "get away" with stuff.

[jonovision]

16 hours ago, RS said:

It's because Laryea is a TFC fan favourite.

He had the same weirdo obsession with denigrating Jonathan Osorio for years, even suggesting that Russell Teibert should be called over him.

There were several years where Teibert over Osorio was a reasonable position to hold. Not recently though.

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

I don't trust Henry on the field, frankly.  Laryea, however, I do trust to "get away" with stuff.

I don't trust Henry on the field as he lacks pace and hasn't played enough recently, but I have no concerns about him losing his cool.

Edited November 4, 2022 by jonovision

[RS]

19 minutes ago, jonovision said:

There were several years where Teibert over Osorio was a reasonable position to hold. Not recently though.

Maybe a decade ago, but UT was making that argument as recently as 2021.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Maybe a decade ago, but UT was making that argument as recently as 2021.

You're stalking me. Again. As recently as today.

 

[RS]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You're stalking me. Again. As recently as today.

 

Stalking you? No, I just remember your asinine arguments from a year ago.

It basically boiled down to "the Whitecaps are better so Teibert should be getting Osorio's call-ups." Many on here disagreed with you at the time.

You should be proud that some of your takes are so memorable. I'm sure the "you don't watch pro football if you think players react negatively to being spit on" take will last just as long in our collective memory banks.

Edited November 4, 2022 by RS

[Obinna]

@Unnamed TrialistI think it was the hints of homer-ism that were particular offputting during at the time. It was one thing to have leaned Tiebert over Osorio in those days, when both were part of the pool during the Floro years, but it was another thing to vehemently oppose the other side of the argument as strongly as you did, because it was clear both players were solid and there were arguments for both. I don't recall anyone on the Osorio/Toronto side of that argument engaging that way. Perhaps I have a faulty memory though...

[Obinna]

That said though (if you guys don't mind me going here in the Laryea thread), I must say that I am a little surprised Teibert has been unable to sneak back into the pool, even for a token camp or two. I watched him live in Vancouver against Toronto back in May and thought he was great. I found myself having a lot more appreciation for him, somehow. I kept thinking what a time it was in Canadian soccer when a player like that can't get a sniff at the national team. He had a wonderful season this year past, from what I know and saw, and personally I think it would be cool to see him sneak into a January camp poutine. I doubt he ever gets to be a mainstay again, but at age 29/30 it's sort of odd he's been out of the picture for several years now, despite him playing some of his best soccer. He has his limitations, but he seems like a leader, he's clean on the ball, he is super fit, and he's still a good age, starting every week and often captaining his MLS side. Are we that good that he doesn't get a look, ever? I guess so!

[RS]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

@Unnamed TrialistI think it was the hints of homer-ism that were particular offputting during at the time. It was one thing to have leaned Tiebert over Osorio in those days, when both were part of the pool during the Floro years, but it was another thing to vehemently oppose the other side of the argument as strongly as you did, because it was clear both players were solid and there were arguments for both. I don't recall anyone on the Osorio/Toronto side of that argument engaging that way. Perhaps I have a faulty memory though...

You pretty much have to go back to the Floro days (2016 and earlier) to get to a time where Teibert and Osorio would even be in the same conversation. From 2017 onward, Osorio's performed like a TAM-level MLS player and carried that over into the national team.

This is no diss on Teibert, who's an honest professional with an incredible work ethic. It's just that the level of the national team has long since passed him by, which is no shame.

I will echo everyone else in here in that, by following UT's own criteria, Laryea should be one of his favourite players on the national team. Richie plays with an edge that no one else does, and is a master in shithouse tactics that UT has often advocated our previously naive national team to employ more of. Laryea's done this without ever harming the team, and one could even suggest that he's set an example of how to do so that certain other players (Cavallini, mostly) should aspire to.

Given that Laryea so perfectly embodies these qualities that UT's been asking for (along with many others, myself included) to properly compete in CONCACAF, I can only come to the conclusion that it's Richie's employment at TFC that is the offending issue.

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That said though (if you guys don't mind me going here in the Laryea thread), I must say that I am a little surprised Teibert has been unable to sneak back into the pool, even for a token camp or two. I watched him live in Vancouver against Toronto back in May and thought he was great. I found myself having a lot more appreciation for him, somehow. I kept thinking what a time it was in Canadian soccer when a player like that can't get a sniff at the national team. He had a wonderful season this year past, from what I know and saw, and personally I think it would be cool to see him sneak into a January camp poutine. I doubt he ever gets to be a mainstay again, but at age 29/30 it's sort of odd he's been out of the picture for several years now, despite him playing some of his best soccer. He has his limitations, but he seems like a leader, he's clean on the ball, he is super fit, and he's still a good age, starting every week and often captaining his MLS side. Are we that good that he doesn't get a look, ever? I guess so!

I addressed it a bit above, but I agree that Teibert has looked good this past season.

Unfortunately for him, the pool expanded so quickly that there's really no need to bring in a near 30-year-old central midfielder that would be, at best, 6th or 7th in depth chart, in the months leading up to a World Cup.

[Free kick]

I dont recall those arguments 

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

That said though (if you guys don't mind me going here in the Laryea thread), I must say that I am a little surprised Teibert has been unable to sneak back into the pool, even for a token camp or two. I watched him live in Vancouver against Toronto back in May and thought he was great. I found myself having a lot more appreciation for him, somehow. I kept thinking what a time it was in Canadian soccer when a player like that can't get a sniff at the national team. He had a wonderful season this year past, from what I know and saw, and personally I think it would be cool to see him sneak into a January camp poutine. I doubt he ever gets to be a mainstay again, but at age 29/30 it's sort of odd he's been out of the picture for several years now, despite him playing some of his best soccer. He has his limitations, but he seems like a leader, he's clean on the ball, he is super fit, and he's still a good age, starting every week and often captaining his MLS side. Are we that good that he doesn't get a look, ever? I guess so!

He (Teibert)  was always a very average MLS player and his skill set brought nothing new to the MNT mix.   Whereas Oso would have been a key linkup man to the to the forwards.  We seldom (if not never) had those kinds of players.   Remember how everyone was questioning Larin's scoring abilities as a forward?  Its because he wasn't getting enough service.  For that reason, I thought it was a travesty that OSO was excluded.   

The bias and homerism, in this case, was from ppl who are stuck in this anti Toronto petty regionalism (that unfortunately exists Canada) that they overlooked what would have been good for CMNT..   Oso was at his best at the time we were trying to qualify for 2018.   He could have desperately helped. Ashtone Morgan, also, was decent at the time but one would have had a harder argument to make for his inclusion, so I have much less of a problem with his exclusion.  But still, Jamar Dixon got called up; Morgan and Osorio did not.  Go figure!!!!!

Floro, unfortunately, didnt want TFC players.   That, and the fact that the WCQ matches were not played in Toronto, tells you something about the orientation (from Floro and the CSA brass) at the time.  

 

Edit>;  I don't recall what UT's views were at that time.   But i recall several others ranting and raving about Oso's poor attitude.   In order to be on the 2018,  Oso would have had to have been playing for the Whitecaps, then there wouldnt have been any issues with his attitude.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

59 minutes ago, Obinna said:

@Unnamed TrialistI think it was the hints of homer-ism that were particular offputting during at the time. It was one thing to have leaned Tiebert over Osorio in those days, when both were part of the pool during the Floro years, but it was another thing to vehemently oppose the other side of the argument as strongly as you did, because it was clear both players were solid and there were arguments for both. I don't recall anyone on the Osorio/Toronto side of that argument engaging that way. Perhaps I have a faulty memory though...

No, I was just saying that you have to judge a player by how he is doing on his team as well. Which went along with a bit of rhetorical jibing the TFC fanboys who overstate every bit of scrub that comes their way. Don't you think?

In the Voyageurs Cup final, who was better, Teibert or Osorio? The latter had a weak game in a critical match, then was the guy that flubbed the definitive penalty. He looked quite a bit like the sort of player some laugh about mockingly when Teibert gets mentioned.

Over summer and into fall of the MLS 2021 season Teibert was starting and playing on a team that had gone on an excellent run of form, during months. One of the best teams in MLS the last 3-4 months of the season. I'd also say he was solid and was a piece of that good run; this year it was not the case, he was weak, probably even weaker than the Caps. At times he was hapless and the team covered for him. So your club play matters, how the club around you is doing matters too. 

That said, all I was doing was using Teibert as a foil, RS's reading comprehension limitations notwithstanding. 

Regardless, as we saw, Osorio was excellent for Canada, consistently; he was one of our critical players and IMO his goal at Azteca was the most important of the qualilfying campaign.

Finally: my point about the club form mattering is backed by the Montreal core for our NT, with Montreal having by far the best season of the three MLS teams. Now watch them argue Laryea is not on loan to TFC, Henry is still a TFC player and Kaye is on the national team thanks to TFC.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by RS
Eliminated my real name from here, left everything else.

[DeRo_Is_King]

51 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That said though (if you guys don't mind me going here in the Laryea thread), I must say that I am a little surprised Teibert has been unable to sneak back into the pool, even for a token camp or two. I watched him live in Vancouver against Toronto back in May and thought he was great. I found myself having a lot more appreciation for him, somehow. I kept thinking what a time it was in Canadian soccer when a player like that can't get a sniff at the national team. He had a wonderful season this year past, from what I know and saw, and personally I think it would be cool to see him sneak into a January camp poutine. I doubt he ever gets to be a mainstay again, but at age 29/30 it's sort of odd he's been out of the picture for several years now, despite him playing some of his best soccer. He has his limitations, but he seems like a leader, he's clean on the ball, he is super fit, and he's still a good age, starting every week and often captaining his MLS side. Are we that good that he doesn't get a look, ever? I guess so!

I wouldn't mind seeing Teibert play for Canada again, either. I can't really recall him having a terrible game for us.

Edit: Hey, why not try Teibert instead of Kaye? 

Edited November 4, 2022 by DeRo_Is_King

[RS]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Now watch them argue Laryea is not on loan to TFC, Henry is still a TFC player and Kaye is on the national team thanks to TFC.

I'm sure this is a thing that will totally happen, and not a strawman at all.

[Free kick]

 

To further my earlier point about Anti-Toronto sentiment at the time.  Look at the list of callups below.   This is for a 2018 WCQ versus Honduras   

Is someone going to tell me with a straight face that Oso and Ashtone Morgan had no place on that squad?  

Game Details (concacaf.com)

MILAN BORJAN
8DONEIL HENRY
10JUNIOR HOILETT
3MANJREKAR JAMES
17MARCEL DE JONG
13ATIBA HUTCHINSON
23TESHO AKINDELE
5DAVID EDGAR
16SCOTT ARFIELD
4DEJAN JAKOVIC
21CYLE LARIN
14SAMUEL PIETTE
9MARCUS HABER
11TOSAINT RICKETTS
2NIKOLAS LEDGERWOOD
20KARL OUIMETTE
15ADAM STRAITH
1MAXIME CREPEAU
19STEVEN VITORIA
22KENNY STAMATOPOULOS
12ANDRE HAINAULT
6JAMAR DIXON
7SIMEON JACKSON

But hey, nobody raised even an eyebrow. In 2016, Floro thought that a player of this profile was worthy of a callup. But Oso and Morgan was not. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Free kick

[Bigandy]

35 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, I was just saying that you have to judge a player by how he is doing on his team as well. Which went along with a bit of rhetorical jibing the TFC fanboys who overstate every bit of scrub that comes their way. Don't you think?

In the Voyageurs Cup final, who was better, Teibert or Osorio? The latter had a weak game in a critical match, then was the guy that flubbed the definitive penalty. He looked quite a bit like the sort of player some laugh about mockingly when Teibert gets mentioned.

Over summer and into fall of the MLS 2021 season Teibert was starting and playing on a team that had gone on an excellent run of form, during months. One of the best teams in MLS the last 3-4 months of the season. I'd also say he was solid and was a piece of that good run; this year it was not the case, he was weak, probably even weaker than the Caps. At times he was hapless and the team covered for him. So your club play matters, how the club around you is doing matters too. 

That said, all I was doing was using Teibert as a foil, RS's reading comprehension limitations notwithstanding. 

Regardless, as we saw, Osorio was excellent for Canada, consistently; he was one of our critical players and IMO his goal at Azteca was the most important of the qualilfying campaign.

Finally: my point about the club form mattering is backed by the Montreal core for our NT, with Montreal having by far the best season of the three MLS teams. Now watch them argue Laryea is not on loan to TFC, Henry is still a TFC player and Kaye is on the national team thanks to TFC.

 

 

"RS's reading comprehension limitations notwithstanding."

Wow, You don't quit with the insults. It is almost as if you struggle to back up your opinion with credible statements, evidence etc and resort to personal insults.  

[Free kick]

57 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Teibert play for Canada again, either. I can't really recall him having a terrible game for us.

 

Perhaps.  But i can't ever recall him having a great game either

Edited November 4, 2022 by Free kick

[DeRo_Is_King]

11 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Perhaps.  But i can't recall him having a great game either

Great? No, but he's been decent.

To compare, I think Kaye has more upside, but I am concerned about his form for the immediate future. Anyway, that's the last thing I'll say here since it's not truly relevant to this thread. 

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Finally: my point about the club form mattering is backed by the Montreal core for our NT, with Montreal having by far the best season of the three MLS teams. Now watch them argue Laryea is not on loan to TFC, Henry is still a TFC player and Kaye is on the national team thanks to TFC.

 

 

But it is happening.  I have no issues with Montreal players included for that reason alone.  But in 2016,  TFC finished 3rd in the east with 53 points and went to the MLS finals.   

Laryea is playing for TFC.  Not Notts forest.  And as for Kaye,  Its not me, but I am seeing more people questioning his inclusion now compared to before when he wasnt playing for TFC

Edited November 4, 2022 by Free kick