Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[RS]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

Man, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Your posts in multiple threads are quite negative and aggressive 

I thought I was the only one to notice this.

[prairiecanuck]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

I thought I was the only one to notice this.

I feel like it was pretty hard to miss...lol.  Richie to be fair really does have his ups and downs.  One game he looks incredible, but he can have some shockers too.  Still when he's at his best he can really shine.  He was outstanding at Azteca in qualifying.  Hopefully, he can have some moments at the world cup because he's certainly capable when he's at his best. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

Man, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Your posts in multiple threads are quite negative and aggressive 

Is that important for you, my personal state?

I just posted my great weekend, five days in Andalucia, but now have eliminated the post. It does not make sense to be dealing with the inability of people to handle differences of opinion by personalising remarks. 

This is what I am saying about weak-minded fans. Why go to a fan forum to only agree with people or harmonise with personalities of people you have never met?

Edited November 2, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

43 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

I feel like it was pretty hard to miss...lol.  Richie to be fair really does have his ups and downs.  One game he looks incredible, but he can have some shockers too.  Still when he's at his best he can really shine.  He was outstanding at Azteca in qualifying.  Hopefully, he can have some moments at the world cup because he's certainly capable when he's at his best. 

Back to the topic: based on Uruguay, and Herdman canning him at the half for being out of sorts (he was one of our worse players), it is not clear he'll get minutes in Qatar. If Herdman thinks Hoillet is more reliable, or if Osorio gets back and we fill in the midfield that way; or if we can have Tajon playing that wingback role we see at Bruges, where he is responsible defensively and still gets forward when he needs to, then Laryea's minutes could be limited. 

I think he's overrated, and anyways, we have alternatives. If he responds well vs. Bahrain and especially Japan, he may work his way back in. As we sit, however, he's not a starter.

[Gian-Luca]

Based on the pre-game interview Herdman gave, the Laryea for Hoilett substitution at half-time vs. Uruguay was pre-planned, much like the reverse substitution was pre-planned against Qatar. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Based on the pre-game interview Herdman gave, the Laryea for Hoilett substitution at half-time vs. Uruguay was pre-planned, much like the reverse substitution was pre-planned against Qatar. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

Laryea came on for Larin, not Hoillet, who played the full match vs. Qatar. 

The Larin sub was because he had not played and was probably not in full game shape.

The Laryea sub was because he was poor and an eyesore--he put Hoillet back to where he'd just done a good job vs. Qatar.

For me he was clearly chastised, but since you rarely remember details like this wrongly I put that down to the kid glove treatment Richie gets from TFC fans.

[Gian-Luca]

43 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Laryea came on for Larin, not Hoillet, who played the full match vs. Qatar. 

The Larin sub was because he had not played and was probably not in full game shape.

The Laryea sub was because he was poor and an eyesore--he put Hoillet back to where he'd just done a good job vs. Qatar.

For me he was clearly chastised, but since you rarely remember details like this wrongly I put that down to the kid glove treatment Richie gets from TFC fans.

Regardless of my faulty memory on who was subbed out in Qatar, Herdman said before the match that Hoilett would come on for the 2nd half. Because it was unusual for him to say stuff like that, this is precisely why I recalled it.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Is that important for you, my personal state?

I just posted my great weekend, five days in Andalucia, but now have eliminated the post. It does not make sense to be dealing with the inability of people to handle differences of opinion by personalising remarks. 

This is what I am saying about weak-minded fans. Why go to a fan forum to only agree with people or harmonise with personalities of people you have never met?

I don't think its an inability for us other members to handle a differing opinion. You say that people on this forum who cannot handle a different opinion will personalize remarks. Your next sentence is personalizing the weak mindedness of the rest of us. Does the fact that you personalized remarks about others show that you have an inability to handle different opinions? What a conundrum. You are doing the same thing you have insulted the rest of the board for doing..... 

It's easy to be aggressive and to invoke absolutism when talking  about players. "He's useless" "Hes not afraid of hurting the team" are just two examples. These are such nonsense statements. We can disagree about how useful laryea is or how disciplined he may be, but your statements are just not true. Laryea provided value to our qualifying campaign as did every player, sub, staff member etc. Thats what a team is about. Therefore he is not useless. 

What is your basis that he isnt afraid to hurt the team. I guarantee you that he would be petrified of hurting the team at the WC. Does he occasionally lose his discipline, sure. Just like eustaquio for porto the other day. It happens. Some players have it happen more often than others, but to claim he isnt afraid to hurt the team is so ignorant. If you think the CMNT is important to you or me, you better believe that a guy who is actually on the team treats it with the same importance. 

[Kent]

17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And he's mentally unstable, getting into unnecessary squabbles.

 

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's not afraid of hurting the team for no reason.

If I didn't watch the player, I would assume you are talking about boneheaded or hotheaded red cards. I just double checked, he's played 154 club games and 32 internationals, and doesn't have any red cards to his name. So it can't be that. I feel like you are afraid he will cross the line when he seems to know very well where the line is. Or has he given up penalties that have stuck in your memory? I personally don't remember any but I'm sure there must have been a couple. I don't know if there is anywhere that can be looked up like the red cards (I used transfermarkt). Or are you referencing poor defensive play? Doesn't seem to line up with what you are saying but maybe that is what you meant?

[Stryker911]

I can't believe people are debating Laryeas quality. He is a stud for us. I love his tenacity and willingness to be a shithead. It is something that we have been missing for years.

In regards to how he ended the season, I think Laryea is the type of player that gets up for the big games. After watching the latest episode of the We can doc, he was awesome against Mexico with 0 fear playing against Azteca. Similar to Osorio in that regards. 

When he first came back to Toronto then went on a pretty good run, but then after the last minute goal against LA resulting in a draw, the season was basically over. The whole team played horrible after that, Laryea included. 

[El Diego]

15 hours ago, Kent said:

 

If I didn't watch the player, I would assume you are talking about boneheaded or hotheaded red cards. I just double checked, he's played 154 club games and 32 internationals, and doesn't have any red cards to his name. So it can't be that. I feel like you are afraid he will cross the line when he seems to know very well where the line is. Or has he given up penalties that have stuck in your memory? I personally don't remember any but I'm sure there must have been a couple. I don't know if there is anywhere that can be looked up like the red cards (I used transfermarkt). Or are you referencing poor defensive play? Doesn't seem to line up with what you are saying but maybe that is what you meant?

I'm with you. For the first bit when he joined TFC I was like, why is this guy always getting up in peoples' grills? He is going to get dismissed a bunch... except that has never happened. He gets his fair share of cautions, but he is able to rein himself in after that. It's all calculated on his part. It actually surprises me that UT, who usually lauds clever players like this, is missing this point. Sure one could argue that being on a caution is negative because it impacts what plays you are willing to make for the rest of the game. But that is hard to quantify and I don't buy it with Laryea with the eye test.

I also thought maybe he was talking about penalties, but immediately from memory I can remember Laryea winning way more penalties than he's conceded. I looked it up on FBRef and according to them in his professional club career he has conceded 1 penalty while winning 7.

These are all club stats, but I also can't recall him receiving a dismissal or conceding a penalty for Canada.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

I looked it up on FBRef and according to them in his professional club career he has conceded 1 penalty while winning 7.

I am not sure he was winning as many penalties in his time prior to his NF transfer.  My eye test could certainly be wrong but it seemed like MLS refs waved "play on" a lot more after he went down in the box.  However, he is quite crafty when juking and jiving on the dribble in the p.a. and as such benefit guys willing to run off the ball and make space for him.  That hasn't (and likely won't) happen with either Italian winger in front of him.

 

[RS]

2 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I am not sure he was winning as many penalties in his time prior to his NF transfer.  My eye test could certainly be wrong but it seemed like MLS refs waved "play on" a lot more after he went down in the box.  However, he is quite crafty when juking and jiving on the dribble in the p.a. and as such benefit guys willing to run off the ball and make space for him.  That hasn't (and likely won't) happen with either Italian winger in front of him.

 

He won quite a few penalties with TFC. 

The most notable one was in the playoffs in 2019 against NYCFC in the 88th minute that led to a game-winning Panenka by Pozuelo.

 

[Bison44]

This is all optics.  He chirps, he is always in these little dust ups after the whistle.  As El Deigo said, you think he is going to get ejected, but he has walked that line for years and never crossed it.  If your looking for an excuse to not play him or slag him, I guess thats it///he is reckless or a mistake waiting to happen.  Henry gets this and to a lesser extent Cavallini. 

But there is no way he wont start games and be coming off the bench in Qatar.  Him drawing a penalty might just get us a goal.  

[El Diego]

37 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I am not sure he was winning as many penalties in his time prior to his NF transfer.  My eye test could certainly be wrong but it seemed like MLS refs waved "play on" a lot more after he went down in the box.  However, he is quite crafty when juking and jiving on the dribble in the p.a. and as such benefit guys willing to run off the ball and make space for him.  That hasn't (and likely won't) happen with either Italian winger in front of him.

 

He has won a penalty in each season with TFC, including 2 in 2019. I agree that there are many times he goes down and doesn't get the call, but that doesn't mean that he isn't much more of a penalty winner than a penalty conceder. I think it also means he gets in the box a lot and attacks guys 1v1.

I haven't figured out how to look up PK won across everyone on FBRef, but I used their tool to to compare him to his 5 most similar players. Those 5 players in their career combined have won 5 penalties and conceded 7. I think it's likely that a 7:1 ratio that Laryea has is a bit nutty for a defender.

[BearcatSA]

44 minutes ago, RS said:

He won quite a few penalties with TFC. 

The most notable one was in the playoffs in 2019 against NYCFC in the 88th minute that led to a game-winning Panenka by Pozuelo.

 

I'm talking about 2021, 2020, the more recent past.  When he started making his name at TFC, he definitely generated ("sold") well crafted fouls.

Edited November 3, 2022 by BearcatSA

[Bison44]

HAHA, the refs watch the highlights too, they saw Richie "selling" alot of fouls and they didnt buy into his dark arts as much.  

[rydermike]

Laryea isn't a perfect defender, sure he makes some defensive miscues, might get too focused on the offensive end, can go a bit overboard, but we're also Canada, not Germany/Brazil/Spain where the expectation is you're going to have to a perfect fullback.

For a team of our level (30-40 fifa rank), he's basically what you expect to have in a player: He's going to look great in Concacaf against equal and lesser teams and probably look lower tier again those top tier uefa sides...... But that's also going to be everyone on our team. Eustaquio is a beast in Concacaf but he's not Luka Modric. 

Now, maybe you choose to go With Alistair Johnston at RB because he's more of a defensive defender against Belgium/Croatia, but thats more just a tactical decision rather than a quality decision. A team at out level needs to pick our lineup to counter our opponents because we don't have the quality to be the 'big dog' who need to force other teams to adjust to us. 

I say this as someone who for a long time rated Auro Jr above Laryea at TFC because Auro was more of a traditional defender and Laryea was a bit more quirky (with some of his awkward looking runs that just always seem to work). But Laryea has his moments of brilliance that can change games and it took me a while to get used to but  I started to appreciate that.

Now personally would I start him at RB? Maybe not against Croatia/Belgium. Again, I think against those teams we might need a more traditional defender since we're going to have very little of the ball. But that's just a personal choice as well be massive underdogs. Maybe throw him in as a second half sub at RB or RW if we need a little Richie magic. Against Marocco though, I would start him. That's a game that some Richie magic could take over pretty early. Then again, Richie always seems to exceed my expectations when I'm worried his offe sive style was going to hurt the team defe sively, so what do I know. Maybe he's the perfect choice. He's such a unique fullback that maybe these elite teams will be all out of sorts because they don't know how to deal with playing against him because they're used to facing convential defenders

Edited November 3, 2022 by rydermike

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

This is all optics.  He chirps, he is always in these little dust ups after the whistle.  As El Deigo said, you think he is going to get ejected, but he has walked that line for years and never crossed it.  If your looking for an excuse to not play him or slag him, I guess thats it///he is reckless or a mistake waiting to happen.  Henry gets this and to a lesser extent Cavallini. 

But there is no way he wont start games and be coming off the bench in Qatar.  Him drawing a penalty might just get us a goal.  

As we stand he does not start vs Belgium. Tajon does, in the role he plays for Bruges, a wingback who can support the back line but also get forward. And if that goes well, they'll repeat it three times, and Richie won't start. 

Anyone who thinks we are going to play Tajon and Richie on the same side, well I don't see it.

As for his attitude on the field, you may be right. It is my impression that he's a loose screw, but maybe he does not cross the line. He seems like he's close to being a liability, but if those who know him better say he controls himself or is on the edge, I am fine with that. And I agree, I like the players who have that grit or edge, I think he's slash and burn and that could be good.

He's not the most disciplined defender in any case and has to rely on teammates bailing him out too often.

I have memories like when some rival apparently spat at him, think it could have been late vs. Panama at home. We are up, we are going to win, and he gets all upset and loses his focus because a guy spat at him. I don't even think he claimed to have been hit, so WTF? The guy was wiling to get into a useless battle and be baited in taking a yellow or worse instead of taking the W and moving on. I hate all this moral high ground and honour shit if it gets in the way of the ultimate goal.

[Bison44]

UT....whats the "moral high ground and honour shit"??  If anything Lareya is more into the "game playing dark arts baloney than any of our other guys.  Claiming he was spit on and drawing a card is  100% up is alley.  

[Free kick]

The way I see things shaping up, only two of these four can be in the starting lineup in Qatar: Larin, Oso, Laryea, Adekugbe.   All the other starting spots are locked up..  

edit.:  to clarify, the Mid fielder who will play alongside Eustaquio is still not a lock, but it can only be one of MAK or Piette.  It's a lock because it can only be one of those two. I can't see Atiba starting given his age and limited action that he has seen this season.  But with the four in the first paragraph, you can only start any two and have some kind of balanced formation (ie.: 343, 3421, 352, 4321…etc). 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Free kick

[El Diego]

7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

UT....whats the "moral high ground and honour shit"??  If anything Lareya is more into the "game playing dark arts baloney than any of our other guys.  Claiming he was spit on and drawing a card is  100% up is alley.  

This is what confuses me the most about this whole thing. From what I've seen of UT's posts about this topic (i.e. doing what it takes to win, not being moral about things that happen on the pitch -- which btw I agree with him completely and have backed him up on these points in the past) I would think Laryea would be one of his favourite players!

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

UT....whats the "moral high ground and honour shit"??  If anything Lareya is more into the "game playing dark arts baloney than any of our other guys.  Claiming he was spit on and drawing a card is  100% up is alley.  

But that is the point: he isn't even that good at the dark arts, as you call them. It's bush league. No ref saw it, obviously, we don't have VAR, and you are winning 4-1 (I looked it up again), so it gets you absolutely nothing. Whining about someone spitting towards him (he himself said he was not hit) is childish at that point in the match. He was closer to getting carded than the rival who was baiting him. 

So that is a liability and a player who is reading the game narrative wrongly.

It's not a problem with him being a bit psycho, I get that he and Larin are childhood friends and they both have that intense half-crazy look in their eye, which I find endearing. I agree they can get you results, I also find it a bit funny (like when we are winning 4-1 it's showtime). But look: that blast by Johnston vs. Mexico, from the left side of the pitch, the one Larin picked up for the goal, that was "psycho" by a guy who is never "psycho". So I prefer that kind of mentality that gets you ballsy results than just a crazy stare and bitching up the wrong tree.

He's sitting and Tajon is starting in Qatar, most likely, so it doesn't matter.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[El Diego]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But that is the point: he isn't even that good at the dark arts, as you call them. It's bush league. No ref saw it, obviously, we don't have VAR, and you are winning 4-1 (I looked it up again), so it gets you absolutely nothing. Whining about someone spitting towards him (he himself said he was not hit) is childish at that point in the match. He was closer to getting carded than the rival who was baiting him. 

So that is a liability and a player who is reading the game narrative wrongly.

It's not a problem with him being a bit psycho, I get that he and Larin are childhood friends and they both have that intense half-crazy look in their eye, which I find endearing. I agree they can get you results, I also find it a bit funny (like when we are winning 4-1 it's showtime). But look: that blast by Johnston vs. Mexico, from the left side of the pitch, the one Larin picked up for the goal, that was "psycho" by a guy who is never "psycho". So I prefer that kind of mentality that gets you ballsy results than just a crazy stare and bitching up the wrong tree.

He's sitting and Tajon is starting in Qatar, most likely, so it doesn't matter.

 

You realize your prime example for him being a liability is a play in which many players would react worse, and a play in which he wasn't even cautioned for?

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, El Diego said:

You realize your prime example for him being a liability is a play in which many players would react worse, and a play in which he wasn't even cautioned for?

It's not a prime example, it's an example, and not even the example others are citing here. 

Anyways, it was Armando Villareal the MLS ref, he apparently spoke to him as if he knew him, from what I read, because he did. So he was trying to get a ref he knew to card a rival for no good reason when it made no difference to what really mattered.

If you think players regularly act badly when someone spits in their general direction without hitting them you haven't watched pro football. The vast majority would not blink an eye.