Jonathan Osorio

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

He's like the younger version of the present-day Hutchinson, but obviously not as good or consistent, though perhaps we will see how consistent he can be as the season wears on.

Thought you were talking about Osorio! Now that I have recovered from that shock, I think you are really reaching in comparing Kaye with Hutch. We can always hope but Hutch is leagues ahead.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Thought you were talking about Osorio! Now that I have recovered from that shock, I think you are really reaching in comparing Kaye with Hutch. We can always hope but Hutch is leagues ahead.

Agreed. I am being extremely generous to Kaye. It was also a stylistic comparison first and foremost.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Obinna

[mpg_29]

Guy seems to have elevated his game the same way Piette did a year or two ago. Thought after not starting much last season combined with more depth being added in Toronto's midfield we wouldn't see much of him at all this season...but it's the complete opposite.

[gator]

I thought last year when he did get on the field he looked like a player who had lost his starting job, which he had, he looked like he was afraid to take chances and make a mistake, he played everything too safe! Once he got a run of matches late on he did really well, obviously he learned from guys like Vasquez and played the game of his life in the MLS Final, I was just hoping he could keep his game somewhere at that level, he has exceeded that so far this season forcing Vanney to play him!

[Kadenge]

Osorio is playing with loads of confidence and it is showing in his game. Combining really well with Gio

[Shortdutchcanuck]

On 11/03/2018 at 12:08 AM, Obinna said:

Agreed. I am being extremely generous to Kaye. It was also a stylistic comparison first and foremost.

Kaye seems a late bloomer compared to Hutch.  I do see a striking comparison but more physical and positional than stylistic.  Both tall slender types but with good body control.  Both DMs with flexibility to play multiple positions (remember the Hutch to RB movement!).  I would actually give Kaye a slight physical edge -stronger and more athletic.  But Hutch has a massive edge in vision and playmaking ability I don't see Kaye ever coming close to.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 hour ago, mpg_29 said:

Guy seems to have elevated his game the same way Piette did a year or two ago. 

Just the fact he's kept his starting spot in spite of the new additions is massive.  The guy is a fighter, and I love that he's coming to the NZ camp in spite of all the extra CCL minutes he's played.  Dude seems to have a chip on his shoulder to prove he's a CMNT starter.  And every time he feels he's been slighted he goes and works harder.  Who was it he was subbed off for with Floro where he was just shaking his head in disbelief?  

I've always hated the fact there are a bunch of TFC fans who couldn't care less about CMNT who view Oso as a token Canadian at best.  The guy has been as valuable as anyone but Giovinco this year.  Big props to his determination.

[apbsmith]

I have criticized him in the past, but felt my criticism in the past were more constructive based and deserved in certain spots, as I'll support any and every Canadian.  However, man is he playing with a ton of confidence, swag and passion. He's taken some awesome steps and strides in his game the last 18 months.   It's been fun to watch! 

I think that is what's most impressive, battled adversity,  put his head down, worked on his game and improved in his areas of weakness while obtaining the mental swagger to keep gaining confidence..... he's def no longer a ghost on the pitch, like he was when he was subbed off by Vanney in that playoff game vs Montreal a few years back.  The difference is night and day from then too now, good on him.

Agree with some of the comments on here, really seems to "want it" and "prove it", that he not only deserve to be a regular CMNT player but regularly see the field. I still think he has a higher ceiling, which only helps us a nation moving forward! pretty sweeeeeeet!

Edited March 19, 2018 by apbsmith

[Dub Narcotic]

Past criticisms were more than deserved, but he's been excellent to start this year.

[Keegan]

3 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Just the fact he's kept his starting spot in spite of the new additions is massive.  The guy is a fighter, and I love that he's coming to the NZ camp in spite of all the extra CCL minutes he's played.  Dude seems to have a chip on his shoulder to prove he's a CMNT starter.  And every time he feels he's been slighted he goes and works harder.  Who was it he was subbed off for with Floro where he was just shaking his head in disbelief?  

I've always hated the fact there are a bunch of TFC fans who couldn't care less about CMNT who view Oso as a token Canadian at best.  The guy has been as valuable as anyone but Giovinco this year.  Big props to his determination.

I'd like to see a study on why people like this exist, aka the Canadian haters.  People who wear TFC gear from head to toe but seem to scoff at or almost hate Canadians on the club.. it's absurd.  

There has to be some sort of psychological breakdown of why people inexplicably don't want to see Canadian soccer players succeed.  We don't get it in Basketball, Hockey or any other sport so it's just really strange.  For example, I'm sure 99% of fans will watch and support in Canadians in hockey but then when it comes to soccer they hate on Canucks.. perhaps it's a culture thing where they connect soccer to their old country and feel threatened that the one thing they are better than Canada at they may lose.  Or perhaps it's bitterness that they fancy (or fancied) themselves as good footballers, yet could never make the cut and blamed it on Canadians "not knowing the game" and that anger has carried over to our domestic clubs/players.  It's odd but it's something we actually really need to talk about if we ever want the CPL to kick off.

[El Diego]

It makes zero sense to me why a TFC fan would hate on Osorio. He hasn't always been this good, but he never cost the team games or obviously kept out a more deserving player. He is the only Canadian getting significant minutes and was with the club when they were the joke of the league. Back when they were awful and he was breaking through he was often the only reason to tune in, and now he is actually fulfilling his potential. He should be the most loved TFC player from a sentimental stand point, yet it seems like many TFC fans push him aside. I really don't have any potential explanation for it.

Edited March 19, 2018 by El Diego

[toontownman]

I think there is a general pattern with talented new young attacking players in top level teams.

1.Burst unto the scene full of confidence generally get the best out of one and one situations and make maximum impact. In the process they make a great impression to fans and pundits who proceed to build them up. 

2. The gloss wears off, coaches try and refine the player to make them 'more rounded'. Opposition defenders get wise and everything gets a whole lot harder. The press is especially helpful at this point!

3. Make or break      

So many young players just fade and find places in lower level teams. Osorio seems to have come through it (fingers crossed). He looked fantastic in his first season or two. Real attacking threat, fantastic technique and skill. He got lost though and I am glad he has finally found his place and in turn looks like he actually has become more rounded. He could be a huge part of our national team set up. I had doubts a year or so ago.

Long may it continue and hopefully Davies pulls through the same once defenders start putting tackles in.  

                                                      

[TFC07]

SOME TFC fans  hate Osorio because he's Canadian?  The real reason why some hate him because he holds the ball too long then kills off plays with his back passes to defenders instead of pushing/passing the ball forward.  Also lets not forget he chokes when he's on final third on the field.  

 

Of course, this year he has improved a lot and playing with confidence which he's winning a lot of support from TFC fans.  

 

I admit there's TFC fans who don't support CMNT, but it has nothing to do with being anti-Canadian.   We all know men's program has been a joke for decades.   So its hard to keep supporting a losing team that doesn't show any improvements.  But that being said,  CMNT still got believers in Toronto who will go to BMO field to support them (we have proven this....just look our attendance record).  

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 hour ago, TFC07 said:

SOME TFC fans  hate Osorio because he's Canadian?  The real reason why some hate him because he holds the ball too long then kills off plays with his back passes to defenders instead of pushing/passing the ball forward.  Also lets not forget he chokes when he's on final third on the field.  

 

Yeah these are the types of comments the fans who hate him cuz he's Canadian always make.  Never saw it myself.

[Obinna]

8 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Kaye seems a late bloomer compared to Hutch.  I do see a striking comparison but more physical and positional than stylistic.  Both tall slender types but with good body control.  Both DMs with flexibility to play multiple positions (remember the Hutch to RB movement!).  I would actually give Kaye a slight physical edge -stronger and more athletic.  But Hutch has a massive edge in vision and playmaking ability I don't see Kaye ever coming close to.

Yeah mostly agree with that, though I would caution us not to write off Kaye when it comes to vision and playmaking. I don't think he'll ever get to Hutch level preciously because of his "late" start, but I am convinced he has those tools in his kit - I definitely see him as a two-way midfielder.

At the U23 camp in Qatar he showed moments of offensive intent, and while it didn't always come off, you can see his thought process. I think the standard of his vision is why he's already seeing the field at LAFC this early - not that they are depending on him for that, but Bob Bradley wants players who can play forward.

He showed that with the CanMNT .....and now he is showing it in MLS. 

Good start so far for Kaye.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Yeah these are the types of comments the fans who hate him cuz he's Canadian always make.  Never saw it myself.

This discussion is taking a strange turn. You seem to be saying that anybody who criticizes Osorio implicitly hates all Canadians. That can't be right!

[gator]

3 hours ago, TFC07 said:

SOME TFC fans  hate Osorio because he's Canadian?  The real reason why some hate him because he holds the ball too long then kills off plays with his back passes to defenders instead of pushing/passing the ball forward.  Also lets not forget he chokes when he's on final third on the field.  

 

Of course, this year he has improved a lot and playing with confidence which he's winning a lot of support from TFC fans.  

 

I admit there's TFC fans who don't support CMNT, but it has nothing to do with being anti-Canadian.   We all know men's program has been a joke for decades.   So its hard to keep supporting a losing team that doesn't show any improvements.  But that being said,  CMNT still got believers in Toronto who will go to BMO field to support them (we have proven this....just look our attendance record).  

He was never as bad as many of the haters thought, he hasn't choked much lately, without his vision in the final 3rd TFC would not have beaten Tigres!

[Gian-Luca]

21 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

This discussion is taking a strange turn. You seem to be saying that anybody who criticizes Osorio implicitly hates all Canadians. That can't be right!

I think its more the case that some people assume the Canadians on TFC are there purely because of a quot and are thus harsher on him and the other Canucks because they think they are not there on merit. I can sympathize with being against quotas (especially in, say, the arts - no need for Can Con on the radio IMO) but I am not against it when it comes to developing soccer players - especially as all MLS teams have domestic quotas and its a goal of the league to develop domestic players.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think its more the case that some people assume the Canadians on TFC are there purely because of a quot and are thus harsher on him and the other Canucks because they think they are not there on merit. I can sympathize with being against quotas (especially in, say, the arts - no need for Can Con on the radio IMO) but I am not against it when it comes to developing soccer players - especially as all MLS teams have domestic quotas and its a goal of the league to develop domestic players.

Agree with all that but it should not be used to dismiss criticism of Canadian players as anti-Canadian bias. If somebody unfairly criticizes a player, address the criticism directly. @TFC07made some very specific points above that were dismissed as anti-Canadian bias without refuting even a single one of them! (Not by you, obviously.)

Edited March 20, 2018 by dsqpr

[Bison44]

11 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think its more the case that some people assume the Canadians on TFC are there purely because of a quot and are thus harsher on him and the other Canucks because they think they are not there on merit. I can sympathize with being against quotas (especially in, say, the arts - no need for Can Con on the radio IMO) but I am not against it when it comes to developing soccer players - especially as all MLS teams have domestic quotas and its a goal of the league to develop domestic players.

Yeah there are probably 5-6 americans on every squad that wouldnt have a job if there wasnt an american league with a salary cap and a domestic quota.  But god forbid a canadian team keeps a CDN kid that might not be deserving of the spot at the moment.  Being CDN I dont mind if the tie goes to the local kid and we let non CDN kids be developed with other teams.  

[gator]

I have stood in the South End often enough and heard the slagging off of many Canadian players, it drives me crazy but I'm not going to bother to try to figure out why Canadians were a preferred target for some, many of these people are new to watching soccer hence why I used to hear how bad DeGuzman sucks because he doesn't score enough!

[TFC07]

25 minutes ago, gator said:

He was never as bad as many of the haters thought, he hasn't choked much lately, without his vision in the final 3rd TFC would not have beaten Tigres!

Yes "lately", but in the past Osorio wasn't exactly great in the final third.  Like I said before, this year he's winning a lot of fans in TFC fanbase.   

 

But to point that TFC fans hate Osorio because he's Canadian is just stupid.   I never hear at TFC games (I am SSH) fans complaining about Osorio because his nationality.   I sometimes question if you guys even talk to TFC fans/supporters or take one person's opinion and  assuming rest of TFC fanbase feel the same way.   

[TFC07]

1 minute ago, gator said:

I have stood in the South End often enough and heard the slagging off of many Canadian players, it drives me crazy but I'm not going to bother to try to figure out why Canadians were a preferred target for some, many of these people are new to watching soccer hence why I used to hear how bad DeGuzman sucks because he doesn't score enough!

I have sat in east, west and even north stand (before they got rid of it) and I never hear people bashing Canadian players unless they're having a bad game.   

[gator]

2 minutes ago, TFC07 said:

Yes "lately", but in the past Osorio wasn't exactly great in the final third.  Like I said before, this year he's winning a lot of fans in TFC fanbase.   

 

But to point that TFC fans hate Osorio because he's Canadian is just stupid.   I never hear at TFC games (I am SSH) fans complaining about Osorio because his nationality.   I sometimes question if you guys even talk to TFC fans/supporters or take one person's opinion and  assuming rest of TFC fanbase feel the same way.   

As a proud U-SECTOR member I have had a few discussions and maybe have a finger on the pulse of the fanbase!

[TFC07]

Just now, gator said:

As a proud U-SECTOR member I have had a few discussions and maybe have a finger on the pulse of the fanbase!

Yeah since you guys speak for rest of us.  .