Jonathan Osorio

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Wouldn’t say I’m a big Johnson fan just that he’s always been better at club and country than Osorio. He’s coming off some personal issues but I don’t see any reason that puts him behind Oso in my mind. Johnson is better at just about everything but flair, dribbling and passing imo he’s a better finisher, better from dead balls, better defensively, higher work rate and more experience.  Different players but for me I’d want Johnson on the pitch.. I still say that Osorio over Johnson in the MLS cup final in 2016 was a huge mistake that cost tfc the cup. 

Johnson is better from dead balls and is better and shooting in general, it is noy even close. 

But Osorio is definitely closing the gap when it comes to defensive work rate. The amount of ground him and Delgado put in against Tigres was incredible. I favour Johnson in the tackle, but as far as workrate goes I think we're just splitting hairs.

Also, there was a time I trusted Johnson more in posession than Osorio. That has now reversed.

And I don't think starting Osorio cost them the cup in 2016. Credit to Frei.

[BearcatSA]

Johnson's strength is his ball winning and his hard driving manner out there.  Big engine guy.  Really became a much physically stronger player than when he started out at RSL.

And defensive play isn't always about improving work rate.  It's about being aware of your positioning in relation not only  to your opponents but also your own teammates.  I guess the buzz phrase du jour is situational awareness.

Osorio has had a really good start to the year and I hope he keeps it going.  Does Herdman rank him as a guy he'd have in his starting XI in a make or break match? 

[Keegan]

For me we’re a nation that is going to have to play a conservative style when we play against non-minnows so that definitely factors in with me liking Johnson more. I’d have him defending over Osorio any day.. not that Osorio is bad but I trust Johnson going back to u20 days.

[The Beaver]

I DO feel that Osorio has improved his defensive play. His work rate, which plays an important role here, has improved significantly. This is probably because he has simply become a more responsible and experienced player. He know that he'll not make the starting 11 if he doesn't get his ass back to help.  Is he learning the positioning side of good defense? I think so.  

But I agree with what most of you are saying wrt Osorio vs. Johnson: Osorio might have the willingness and skill to create but is probably a larger liability on the field than Johnson.  But, I guess, this presumes that we'd not have them both on the pitch at the same time, with one of them holding and the other attacking.

 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

I DO feel that Osorio has improved his defensive play. His work rate, which plays an important role here, has improved significantly. This is probably because he has simply become a more responsible and experienced player. He know that he'll not make the starting 11 if he doesn't get his ass back to help.  Is he learning the positioning side of good defense? I think so.  

But I agree with what most of you are saying wrt Osorio vs. Johnson: Osorio might have the willingness and skill to create but is probably a larger liability on the field than Johnson.  But, I guess, this presumes that we'd not have them both on the pitch at the same time, with one of them holding and the other attacking.

 

A larger liability? 

43 minutes ago, Keegan said:

For me we’re a nation that is going to have to play a conservative style when we play against non-minnows so that definitely factors in with me liking Johnson more. I’d have him defending over Osorio any day.. not that Osorio is bad but I trust Johnson going back to u20 days.

For sure we are going to have to play a more conservative style because we'd see less of the ball, but for me that's a shout for Osorio over Johnson, because the few times we get the ball we're going to want to keep it. To that end Osorio is far more useful than Johnson. I don't trust him in posession and if it's steel in the midfield you want I would go with Piette over Johnson.

[Guest]

I think the bottom line is that OSO has improved to the point where he will be an important part of our attack going forward.

In some ways it doesn't really matter whether he is first eleven or an important sub because the first eleven are rarely all available at the same time anyway.

Really loving the fact that we now have some good depth at this position!

[Bertuzzi44]

20 hours ago, jpg75 said:

8 consecutive replies in the same thread. Wow.

Ever so often I catch myself reading one as well. 

By accident.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, jpg75 said:

8 consecutive replies in the same thread. Wow.

Just an enthusiastic young guy. Try not to go all "Voyageurs" on his ass!

[Kent]

On 2018-03-08 at 12:41 AM, canta15 said:

When I saw Osorio miss that open chance in the first half I thought to myself "typical Osorio, can't finish". Made up for it on that goal and made me ate my words

When I saw him miss that chance I thought “Shit! He has played so well and now everyone will only remember that moment.” I was very glad it was him that came through in the clutch.

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

When I saw him miss that chance I thought “Shit! He has played so well and now everyone will only remember that moment.” I was very glad it was him that came through in the clutch.

Thank goodness he did!!!.. What a way to wrap up the night and put that first miss behind him!!!... I was baffled too when I saw that miss from close range, it stung more for me as I saw it live (at BMO field) and worst thing I saw he got the assist on the first goal, when I then realize it was Delgado ffs... To just end the night like this in a victorious manner, especially when you consider the nature of his goal, definitely made anything else before that irrelevant... Here's hoping it means something as we look to qualify to the semis... Oso easily could have ended the night with a brace! 

[1996]

20 hours ago, Keegan said:

Wouldn’t say I’m a big Johnson fan just that he’s always been better at club and country than Osorio. He’s coming off some personal issues but I don’t see any reason that puts him behind Oso in my mind. Johnson is better at just about everything but flair, dribbling and passing imo he’s a better finisher, better from dead balls, better defensively, higher work rate and more experience.  Different players but for me I’d want Johnson on the pitch.. I still say that Osorio over Johnson in the MLS cup final in 2016 was a huge mistake that cost tfc the cup. 

Lol really Johnson cost TFC the cup because of Osorio starting over him in the 2016 MLS Cup or was it a former TFC keeper for Seattle standing on his head in that game. Moreover, Johnson is yesterday's news , the way Oso has been playing now you start him over Johnson sorry regardless of the good old Canadian love of higher work rate. how many times talented players have been looked over in youth soccer here in Canada and the US too because some other less talented player has a higher work rate , probably one too many times with the amount of international star players that have come from not only Canada but the US too.

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Lol really Johnson cost TFC the cup because of Osorio starting over him in the 2016 MLS Cup or was it a former TFC keeper for Seattle standing on his head in that game. Moreover, Johnson is yesterday's news , the way Oso has been playing now you start him over Johnson sorry regardless of the good old Canadian love of higher work rate. how many times talented players have been looked over in youth soccer here in Canada and the US too because some other less talented player has a higher work rate , probably one too many times with the amount of international star players that have come from not only Canada but the US too.

And yet one of the reasons for Osorio's success has been that he has worked harder in all areas of his game, on the field and off.  He himself acknowledges that.

 

 

[Obinna]

I'm glad Johnson is relatively useful. Still only 31 and still a starter in MLS.

But it remains to be seen what impact he will have with an Orlando City side trying to find there way with a lot of new pieces. They might be a contender or they might be a mess, yet again.

If they do have success and Johnson js part of that, than obviously he needs to be considered for a starting place, but with Osorio starting for defending champion TFC and playing well in Champions League, it is hard not to give him the inside track (if it is an either or scenario).

I also think Kaye is going to start to challenge for Johnson's place in the national team before long. I think he can do many of the things Johnson can and while I think Johnson can strike the ball better, Kaye I think is more athletic and better at playing forward balls, like we saw on the LAFC goal. I wouldn't dare suggest he's a locked in starter down there, but I think he can crack 1500 minutes this season. Also consider his age and consider Johnson's. In a big game I want Johnson's experience over Kaye's but Osorio nearly has as much big game experience as Johnson now if you ask me.

[1996]

15 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

And yet one of the reasons for Osorio's success has been that he has worked harder in all areas of his game, on the field and off.  He himself acknowledges that.

 

 

Yes sure but when you combine natural talent with increasing your work rate you will see an improvement, but when all you really have is high work rate there is only so much you can improve, can’t really improve talent after awhile so if you don’t got it work rate is all you have to go by in the end.

[1996]

Moreover, having been involved in youth soccer for so many years I have a bit of a bias for players that played the majority of their youth soccer here in Canada like Osorio, Cavallini, Atiba to name of few , it shows with all our faults we can still produce a few players, guys like Johnson who was born here but played no youth soccer here or even an Arfield who had hardly set foot in Canada, who in the end I’m glad they play for us don’t get me wrong, but I get a little more satisfaction when a player comes out of our youth system I have to say, it’s just a thing for me .

[BearcatSA]

 

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I also think Kaye is going to start to challenge for Johnson's place in the national team before long. I think he can do many of the things Johnson can and while I think Johnson can strike the ball better, Kaye I think is more athletic and better at playing forward balls, like we saw on the LAFC goal.

I didn't see that LAFC match but from watching him at the Gold Cup, Kaye's strength are his big time athleticism and engine room.  He didn't stand out to me because of his technical and tactical skills  If he did, we'd all have been saying, "Wow!  Where has this guy been?". 

He stood out to me because of his graft, not his craft.  I'm not saying he's some unskilled guy with no upside in the technical side of the game:  I just think that he's get overrated on here for things he hasn't really consistently demonstrated.

Now, if he was a non "work rate" guy does he get a look with the NT coming out of back role in USL? 

Edited March 10, 2018 by BearcatSA

[Bison44]

Ummm, does Johnson or Piette get called up if they are non "work rate" guys?  Dont make it sound like work rate and hustle is common. Every team needs hustle and work the same as they need speed and technical skill.  If they have skill like Piette and Johnson all the better, but for a D-mid, hard work, good strength/tackling and the ability to make safe short passes out of the back will take you along way.   

[HugoDirtySanchez]

Osorio is sooo good. why he never plays fro Canada?

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

Still only 31

Still only 31???... Getting old my friend, mean he is still got a few years ahead of him, but unless he can perform at high level, which very few athletes do past 30 (only the great ones, mind you) and don't think Johnson's calibre is at that level... Not a high percentage of athletes once they reach 30 and over perform at a high level, only the elite ones imo, and even those you can see some signs of decline in them, but not at the rate of regular athletes and Johnson  is in that category of a regular athlete, again I'm not taking anything away from nor am I belittling him by any means and us most of us here are value his efforts and r thankful for all contributions he did for the CANMNT and perhaps his lone season in TFC???... Though, that didn't seem to end so well 

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

but Osorio nearly has as much big game experience as Johnson now if you ask me.

I also think Kaye is going to start to challenge for Johnson's place in the national team before long.

Exactly, and O-SO is a much more flashier, niftier player than Johnson, or at least of whatever I saw from him!!!... Also I think Kaye should supplant Johnson by now in the national team fold, I will take athleticism & stamina any time and def Kaye's got those two over Johnson by miles as well as niftiness & flashiness and pace imo pus the age factor, like a 7 year gap... O-SO & Kaye imho should be our guys in the MF going forward together with Piette (as our best defensive-minded MF) and lots of proof to that even at the national level... Kaye can also be solid defensively plus add the fact he puts in some good runs... IMO these 3 should be our guys with at least 2 as starters... Forget Johnson

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

1 hour ago, HugoDirtySanchez said:

Osorio is sooo good. why he never plays fro Canada?

Hasn't just played enough, but Herdman seems to have made no secret that he will have him in mind going froward.. His most recent appearances were the last 2 friendlies and iirc, he played some significant minutes there 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

 

I didn't see that LAFC match but from watching him at the Gold Cup, Kaye's strength are his big time athleticism and engine room.  He didn't stand out to me because of his technical and tactical skills  If he did, we'd all have been saying, "Wow!  Where has this guy been?". 

He stood out to me because of his graft, not his craft.  I'm not saying he's some unskilled guy with no upside in the technical side of the game:  I just think that he's get overrated on here for things he hasn't really consistently demonstrated.

Now, if he was a non "work rate" guy does he get a look with the NT coming out of back role in USL? 

Only saw part of the LAFC game today, but again he looked good. At least in the first half. Again, he was starting in centre midfield with Vela and Feilhaber.

He compliments them well, I think, because he does have that ability to play, while bringing that "athleticism and engine" you speak of to LA's midfield.

He sort of reminds me of a young Atiba Hutchinson, not that I think he has the same ceiling, nor is he the same player Hutchinson was in his early 20's.

He's like the younger version of the present-day Hutchinson, but obviously not as good or consistent, though perhaps we will see how consistent he can be as the season wears on.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Obinna

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

28 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Only saw part of the LAFC game today, but again he looked good. At least in the first half. Again, he was starting in centre midfield with Vela and Feilhaber.

He compliments them well, I think, because he does have that ability to play, while bringing that "athleticism and engine" you speak of to LA's midfield.

He sort of reminds me of a young Atiba Hutchinson, not that I think he has the same ceiling, nor is he the same player Hutchinson was in his early 20's.

He's like the younger version of the present-day Hutchinson, but obviously not as good or consistent, though perhaps we will see how consistent he can be as the season wears on.

Exactly!!!... He has been compared in some corners to Atiba... Why can't he be as good as Atiba, may I ask?

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Ummm, does Johnson or Piette get called up if they are non "work rate" guys?  Dont make it sound like work rate and hustle is common. Every team needs hustle and work the same as they need speed and technical skill.  If they have skill like Piette and Johnson all the better, but for a D-mid, hard work, good strength/tackling and the ability to make safe short passes out of the back will take you along way.   

If you are referring to me, I'm not the guy downplaying those things here. 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE said:

Exactly!!!... He has been compared in some corners to Atiba... Why can't he be as good as Atiba, may I ask?

I mean, anything is possible I guess, but odds are his ceiling is a solid MLS midfielder if you ask me.

At 23 years old, Atiba Hutchinson had already signed to FC Copenhagen and shortly thereafter played against Celtic, Benfica and Manchester United in Champions League. 

Meanwhile Kaye is just starting his MLS career at LAFC, though admittedly they could be the surprise of the season.

All in all, I think Kaye has some catching up to do if he aspires to climb as high as Atiba, but we've seen late bloomers before, so you never know.