Group F Opponent Watch (Belgium, Croatia, Morocco)

[scooterlawrence5]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:59 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

For me it is just what most are saying and hoping, a group where it may be harder for the favourites to go through than it may seem. 

Agreed.  Discussing potential upsets is way more interesting. 

[TGAA_Star]

Canada in this group realistically I see us finishing anywhere from 2nd to 3rd if I am being honest given the teams in this group and how each team has their quality of stars or superstars.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

I agree that there are no groups of death, but it’s mainly the Euro snobs giving Canada and Morocco no chance… those who always predict every European team to make it out of their group.  If Morocco gets their big guns back in the fold, this is the most difficult group from 1-4.

You are aware that there are no European teams not in either Pot 1 or 2 in normal circumstances?

There are maybe 4-6 UEFA teams that are doubtful, IMO, when it comes to getting out of their group: the other UEFA rep in the England-US group, though it will probably be a good bet vs. the US; Poland in the group with Argentina and Mexico; Denmark in the France group depending how the playoff teams pan out; and two UEFA teams in the Brasil group, with likely either Serbia or Switzerland or both (with Cameroon there) not getting through.

We are in one of the 3 groups where the single or both UEFA teams are clear favourites to advance.

[NotCanadian]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

I agree that there are no groups of death, but it’s mainly the Euro snobs giving Canada and Morocco no chance… those who always predict every European team to make it out of their group.  If Morocco gets their big guns back in the fold, this is the most difficult group from 1-4.

Aside from England, all European teams have a difficult group. France, Croatia, Netherlands or Spain not getting out wouldn't be a surprise to me. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

49 minutes ago, NotCanadian said:

Aside from England, all European teams have a difficult group. France, Croatia, Netherlands or Spain not getting out wouldn't be a surprise to me. 

France, Netherlands or Spain not getting out would be 3 quarter-finalists not getting out, and most likely a finalist....so a total surprise. Can't get your logic at all: France is in my view the best team in the world and the favourite to win this WC.

Also imagine you have no idea what the last result between Germany and Spain was (6-0, 18 months ago). In the Euros and Nations League Spain was a semi-finalist both times, close to a finalist. Their results are superior to Germany's lately. But you think they are clearly inferior, odd.

The only reason Croatia might not be a surprise is because we are hyping ourselves for that possibility, but if they don't go through, that will be the lead headline. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[NotCanadian]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

France, Netherlands or Spain not getting out would be 3 quarter-finalists not getting out, and most likely a finalist....so a total surprise. Can't get your logic at all: France is in my view the best team in the world and the favourite to win this WC.

Also imagine you have no idea what the last result between Germany and Spain was (6-0, 18 months ago). In the Euros and Nations League Spain was a semi-finalist both times, close to a finalist. Their results are superior to Germany's lately. But you think they are clearly inferior, odd.

The only reason Croatia might not be a surprise is because we are hyping ourselves for that possibility, but if they don't go through, that will be the lead headline. 

People always forget how scrappy WC games are. Quality matters little and people always forget that. France barely beat Australia the last time around and was lucky vs Peru. This time around they will have it way more difficult considering every team wants their head. Every winner always starts off too relaxed and gets shock group exit. It will probably happen again.

Netherlands is in a tough group and this generation is known to crack under pressure. Too much weight put on young players like De Ligt and De Jong who are chokers. 

This Germany is not the one that lost 6-0. Flick is gonna play direct, physical and aggressive. This Spanish team can't cope with that as we saw when Barcelona played vs Bayern or Eintracht Frankfurt. Japan  similarly plays a style of that will be very challenging for Spain. Costa Rica can manage a draw.

Croatia not getting through won't be a headline lol. We only qualified past the group stage twice in our history. If we lose the first game it will be difficult to get out.

[johnyb]

8 minutes ago, NotCanadian said:

People always forget how scrappy WC games are. Quality matters little and people always forget that. France barely beat Australia the last time around and was lucky vs Peru. This time around they will have it way more difficult considering every team wants their head. Every winner always starts off too relaxed and gets shock group exit. It will probably happen again.

Netherlands is in a tough group and this generation is known to crack under pressure. Too much weight put on young players like De Ligt and De Jong who are chokers. 

This Germany is not the one that lost 6-0. Flick is gonna play direct, physical and aggressive. This Spanish team can't cope with that as we saw when Barcelona played vs Bayern or Eintracht Frankfurt. Japan  similarly plays a style of that will be very challenging for Spain. Costa Rica can manage a draw.

Croatia not getting through won't be a headline lol. We only qualified past the group stage twice in our history. If we lose the first game it will be difficult to get out.

Netherlands is NOT in a tough group! Unless you think all groups are tough (which I don't disagree with). Almost all Soccer pundits consider Group A to be the weakest. Agree though, they may crack under pressure.

[NotCanadian]

Just now, johnyb said:

Netherlands is NOT in a tough group! Unless you think all groups are tough (which I don't disagree with). Almost all Soccer pundits consider Group A to be the weakest. Agree though, they may crack under pressure.

Yes, they are. Quatar are the hosts which are always difficult no matter the quality. Senegal is the best African team, on paper and in reality.  Ecuador qualified directly through the South American qualifiers which are really tough. Every one of those games will be close.

[johnyb]

5 minutes ago, NotCanadian said:

Yes, they are. Quatar are the hosts which are always difficult no matter the quality. Senegal is the best African team, on paper and in reality.  Ecuador qualified directly through the South American qualifiers which are really tough. Every one of those games will be close.

Ok, I'll put you in the "every group is difficult" crowd then (that's where I am). Just curious which groups do you feel are weaker than A?

[NotCanadian]

18 minutes ago, johnyb said:

Ok, I'll put you in the "every group is difficult" crowd then (that's where I am). Just curious which groups do you feel are weaker than A?

We can only discuss group difficulty through the lens of a team in that group. Taking the  aggregate strength of 4 teams to calculate a group's strength is pointless. From the perspective of the Netherlands, I think they have a difficult group. I if I take the perspective of England or Argentina, I would feel like I got an easy group.

[Bertuzzi44]

An in-form Canada and a fully loaded Morocco would make this group very spicy.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Bertuzzi44

[TOcanadafan]

Gvardiol (Croatian / RB Leipzig CB) was FotMob’s MOTM in Europa League game today… one of the world’s hottest CB prospects.  Croatia’s central D this time around may be on-par with their 2018 outfit.

[NotCanadian]

32 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

Gvardiol (Croatian / RB Leipzig CB) was FotMob’s MOTM in Europa League game today… one of the world’s hottest CB prospects.  Croatia’s central D this time around may be on-par with their 2018 outfit.

Well, he's not valued by CIES at 100m Euros for nothing. Just don't look up how Ćaleta-Car played against Feyenoord. I hope Gerrard fixes him next season at Villa.

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, johnyb said:

Netherlands is NOT in a tough group! Unless you think all groups are tough (which I don't disagree with). Almost all Soccer pundits consider Group A to be the weakest. Agree though, they may crack under pressure.

I know what you are saying, but it’s arguably the most even group. Netherlands are probably the favourite, but they are young and without the feared names of years past. They are not going through their strongest moment. Senegal meanwhile are the strongest they’ve been, perhaps ever. They are a legitimate dark horse. The hosts are never easy and Ecuador are always a challenger to advance and they are performing above expectations at the moment. That group lacks a real contender for the Cup, but you can see any team advancing. So yeah, weakest from that perspective, but perhaps least predictable.

[apbsmith]

10 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

Gvardiol (Croatian / RB Leipzig CB) was FotMob’s MOTM in Europa League game today… one of the world’s hottest CB prospects.  Croatia’s central D this time around may be on-par with their 2018 outfit.

I just find it entertaining people on here call Croatia "old", the reality is Croatia's starting 11 vs us could very well be younger than ours.

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Guess a lot still revolves around Luka Modric with them though and he isn't getting any younger.

[NotCanadian]

4 hours ago, apbsmith said:

I just find it entertaining people on here call Croatia "old", the reality is Croatia's starting 11 vs us could very well be younger than ours.

 

Yep, our starting 11 is slightly younger than Canada's.

[Stryker911]

7 minutes ago, NotCanadian said:

Yep, our starting 11 is slightly younger than Canada's.

I think the reason is that our "stars" are young white theirs are old. I thought the same thing during qualification. Our average age isn't actually that young. Just a couple very young, amazing players.

[VinceA]

Also I think a lot of people were under the belief that Vida and Lovren were starters still for Croatia, but I don't believe that's the case anymore.

[Brozosexual]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:17 PM, VinceA said:

Also I think a lot of people were under the belief that Vida and Lovren were starters still for Croatia, but I don't believe that's the case anymore.

Hey guys, I'm a Croat as well as some of the other guys here. You're right that Vida and Lovren aren't our first choice CBs anymore. There's probably a question mark about Lovren as a starter, though I think the consensus is that Ćaleta-Car should objectively get the nod from Dalić. Vida definitely isn't a starter, his position has been firmly seized by Gvardiol.

There's another young CB, though, who hasn't yet! been called up for the national team, but it's only a matter of time. Josip Šutalo (just turned 22) from Dinamo Zagreb (biggest Croatian club, also where Gvardiol came from) has, imo, been the best defender this season in the Croatian league. Currently flying under the radar but certain ITKs around Europe who are familiar with the Croatian league would concur with me that he's among the absolute top CB prospects in Europe atm. Currently the club's biggest project, though there are rumours of him potentially moving to Lazio already this summer. So if he gets called up, which, imo, he will, Croatia's backline could be even more mobile come the World Cup.

To follow up on that last point, personally I'm under the impression that people outside Croatia erroneously think the WC delay until winter goes against Croatia's chances because of our age, but I'm firmly of the opinion it actually goes in our favour by allowing certain young players to further develop and establish themselves in the national team until then. Our oldest players (Modrić and Perišić), on the other hand, are still playing at the top level and half a year won't see them decline in any significant way. In fact Perišić is probably having the season of his career and is at his absolute peak right now.

The consensus here is that although we obviously lost some legends like Mandžukić, Subašić and Rakitić, our first team is actually more coherent and balanced (elite-level-ball-playing backline to complement the dominant midfield, which is great for our possession game, as well as their ability to play a high line and thus make us more compact while controlling games) and our squad has much more quality depth than last time around. Pretty much the only problematic position for us is CF, but I'm hopeful of Petar Musa getting a chance if he continues the same way he's been playing this season. There are also stong rumours of him moving to Benfica this summer as a replacement for Darwin Nunez's departure.

In relation to Canada, I think your best chances to advance are actually at the expense of Belgium. Morocco is also a potential choke game for the Belgians for cultural reasons.

[TOcanadafan]

Also Croatia has Borna Sosa a LB, currently being linked with a transfer to any one of the Euro heavyweights.  Their D and mid are better this World Cup than last.  But Canada does have them beat at wing play and attack, so there’s a chance.  This is all backed up by their qualifying campaign… a lot of low scoring close games.  
And I also agree that Belgium has a good chance to choke… part of me wishes we weren’t playing them first.  

[Brozosexual]

7 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

Also Croatia has Borna Sosa a LB, currently being linked with a transfer to any one of the Euro heavyweights.  Their D and mid are better this World Cup than last.  But Canada does have them beat at wing play and attack, so there’s a chance.  This is all backed up by their qualifying campaign… a lot of low scoring close games.  
And I also agree that Belgium has a good chance to choke… part of me wishes we weren’t playing them first.  

Agree with that. It's always nice for your first game to have the highest point probability. It's much easier to navigate the rest of the group games when you already have 3 points in the bag. It's also problematic (from yours and Morocco's POV) that Belgium and Croatia play eachother last, since there's a high likelihood of one of us fielding our second string in that game, contingent on whether they've secured their advancement to the next round. That said, it's also potentially good because it still keeps everything open for one of you to surprise until the last moment.

Our attack is definitely our weakest point. I'm really hopeful that Musa can make it, our only other potential option is a kid from Salzburg's academy who'll be in their first team come next season when some of their attackers leave. Maybe he can hit the ground running, but, imo, that's a stretch for the national team. The kid is still very young.

I'm also hoping for us to work on a 3-5-2 formation so that we have an option of playing without wingers. I'm curious to see if Perišić can cut it at RWB, maybe we'll be lucky and Inter will test that out for us since they also have Gosens for their LWB spot. In that case we could play Kramarić and Musa upfront, and Krama is pretty deadly when he has a CF to bounce off of. I also like the idea of a front two and Perišić at RWB to fully exploit Sosa's crossing ability, since you mentioned him. One tall CF (Musa), one SS that exploits space well (Krama) and Perišić who's also great in the air attacking the second post sounds great to me.

Budimir is in great form and definitely deserves a spot but I'm not really a fan of his as a starter, he lacks the link-up play and general game involvement to cohere well with the rest of our team.

[Bison44]

Brozosexual hehehehehe...move over approvemyaccountpls.... thats my new fav name in here.  

[TGAA_Star]

I and a lot of other people were predicting the 2022 FIFA World Cup on Reddit from group stages to the Final  itself and for my prediction I had Canada going out in the quarter finals in the Last 8 of the competition; a miracle run of sorts by getting out of the group somehow and beating Spain on penalties but then losing in the quarter finals

[Redpunkfiddle]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:33 PM, Bison44 said:

Brozosexual hehehehehe...move over approvemyaccountpls.... thats my new fav name in here.  

How is it pronounced though- bro or brah?