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2023 U20 CONCACAF Championship and U23 Olympic Qualification to be merged in a tournament in Summer 2022

VinceA

By VinceA
in Men's National Teams

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Shway Grand Master

Shway

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1 minute ago, VinceA said:

Looking at the squad, I can't comment much on youth guys because obviously they're doing their thing in academy set-ups (Knight-Lebel, Costa, Prellegrini, etc.) Although the fact I haven't heard news of them training with the first team for pre-season is a bit of a bummer.

There are some MLS guys who are regulars for their MLSNP sides but someone like Zouhir I can't remember him doing much with Montreal in recent weeks. The CPL guys are okay but Assi and Habibullah were tainted for me as imo they were pretty ass at the tournament. For all the hype with Assi I don't remember him doing anything notable. He's hitting JMR territory for me in terms of how people talk aobut him and what I see. He was a RB for Cavalry's last match too so who knows what is going on there. Habibullah is a one trick pony and has been found out at the pro level.

 

Also just noticed this but Atanasov got loaned out to the second division in Bulgaria.

Wright hasnt played much...
Catavolo hasn't played much...
Hugo hasn't played much....
Poku not much...(one of the better guys)

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solsous
solsous

Found this on FB:   Alex Bunbury June 10 at 3:14 PM ·  C

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RS

Provisional list https://canadasoccer.com/news/canada-soccers-provisional-list-for-the-concacaf-mens-under-20-championship/ FB- Noah Abatneh | ITA / SS Lazio Roma LW- Theo Afework | GER /

Shway
Shway

List is messy asf. Bold was in the April camp. Goalkeepers: GK- Ben Alexander | CAN / Vancouver Whitecaps FC 2 GK- Owen Goodman | ENG / Crystal Palace GK- Samuel Banfi | CAN / Académie CF M

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VinceA Grand Master

VinceA

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4 minutes ago, Shway said:

Wright hasnt played much...
Catavolo hasn't played much...
Hugo hasn't played much....
Poku not much...(one of the better guys)

Damn you're right I wonder what's going on. I saw Poku got into Forge's last game so maybe he'll be featuring regularly again.

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solsous Community Regular

solsous

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, VinceA said:

Looking at the squad, I can't comment much on youth guys because obviously they're doing their thing in academy set-ups (Knight-Lebel, Costa, Prellegrini, etc.) Although the fact I haven't heard news of them training with the first team for pre-season is a bit of a bummer.

There are some MLS guys who are regulars for their MLSNP sides but someone like Zouhir I can't remember him doing much with Montreal in recent weeks. The CPL guys are okay but Assi and Habibullah were tainted for me as imo they were pretty ass at the tournament. For all the hype with Assi I don't remember him doing anything notable. He's hitting JMR territory for me in terms of how people talk aobut him and what I see. He was a RB for Cavalry's last match too so who knows what is going on there. Habibullah is a one trick pony and has been found out at the pro level.

 

Also just noticed this but Atanasov got loaned out to the second division in Bulgaria.

My big question is, how will players for the next cycle be identified post-covid/elimination?  It feels like the U-20 squad was thought of like they were the senior squad.  The senior squad is generational.  The upcoming youngsters have a ways to go. 

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Jack1997 Mentor

Jack1997

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4 hours ago, VinceA said:

Looking at the squad, I can't comment much on youth guys because obviously they're doing their thing in academy set-ups (Knight-Lebel, Costa, Prellegrini, etc.) Although the fact I haven't heard news of them training with the first team for pre-season is a bit of a bummer.

There are some MLS guys who are regulars for their MLSNP sides but someone like Zouhir I can't remember him doing much with Montreal in recent weeks. The CPL guys are okay but Assi and Habibullah were tainted for me as imo they were pretty ass at the tournament. For all the hype with Assi I don't remember him doing anything notable. He's hitting JMR territory for me in terms of how people talk aobut him and what I see. He was a RB for Cavalry's last match too so who knows what is going on there. Habibullah is a one trick pony and has been found out at the pro level.

 

Also just noticed this but Atanasov got loaned out to the second division in Bulgaria.

I agree with a lot but there’s no way JMR wouldn’t of been one of the best players in the tournament he was a mls totw player in week 1 and if it wasn’t for an injury he’d probably be starting for TFC rn, But yes assi hasn’t been good but people have the wrong perception of JMR he’s not a super flashy player he’s just really smart and knows how to get into good spots and has great pace.

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TOcanadafan Mentor

TOcanadafan

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I just don't understand how people can complain about not having a thriving national youth program (when there is no money in the budget to support it) and be supportive of the CSB deal.  Canada Soccer has decided that throwing all the additional revenue to the CPL is the best route to develop the game, so we'll have to deal with having a bare-bones youth set-up for a long time.

Edited by TOcanadafan
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TOcanadafan Mentor

TOcanadafan

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1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Plus membership fees, goverment and concacaf/fifa grants, gate income, 33mil in income last year, 5mil profit....we cant run a ID camp and organize a friendly etc for u-20 or u-17?? Run a parralell youth camp on these CONCACAF/friendlies?

The way I see it is unfortunately no... this was always the reason given by the CSA for not holding camps in the past.  The only way they could generate more money beyond what they were receiving before was through additional ad / sponsorship money that now all goes to the CSB.   Perhaps revenue was a bit higher due to gate receipts from qualifiers, but I'm sure this is all tied up in the Senior team and dealing with Iran / Panama. 

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Bison44 Grand Master

Bison44

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Ahhh so there were reasons for no camps even before evil old CSB came around???  You dont say!!??!?!  And now the money we had in the bank is shot because of the Iran fuck up and the players quitting on the Panama match.  

 We cant scare up a camp in TO for just the 3 MLS academy kids with a few extra invites like they usually did in years past?  Something to remind these kids we still give 2 shits about youth programs??  I still think the Qatar boys should think on this a bit when they start divying up the 10mil dollar pie for WC finals bonus.  Maybe set aside some of that cash with the caveat that some of it gets spent on the next gen of players.  

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TOcanadafan Mentor

TOcanadafan

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4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Ahhh so there were reasons for no camps even before evil old CSB came around???  You dont say!!??!?!  And now the money we had in the bank is shot because of the Iran fuck up and the players quitting on the Panama match.  

The ad / sponsorship revenue was not $0 before CSB… you can see in past financial reports.  Not sure if it was more or less, but they only get $3 M/yr now.  
I’m just speculating about the Iran/Panama thing of course, and going by what’s come out about the CSB.
Bontis cried at that news conference that CSA has no money to fund all the programs and was counting on some from the qualification money (which wasn’t there before).  It’s up to you if you choose to believe he has the best interest of Canada soccer and our national teams or his own.
 

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Sal333 Grand Master

Sal333

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31 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Ahhh so there were reasons for no camps even before evil old CSB came around???  You dont say!!??!?!  And now the money we had in the bank is shot because of the Iran fuck up and the players quitting on the Panama match.  

 We cant scare up a camp in TO for just the 3 MLS academy kids with a few extra invites like they usually did in years past?  Something to remind these kids we still give 2 shits about youth programs??  I still think the Qatar boys should think on this a bit when they start divying up the 10mil dollar pie for WC finals bonus.  Maybe set aside some of that cash with the caveat that some of it gets spent on the next gen of players.  

There's such sweet sweet irony in this post that I almost contracted diabetes.

The Qatar boys who put their bodies, skill and time on the line, "should think on this a bit when they start divvying up the 10 mil," but the CSB who has been divvying up a lot more and living off the games played by those Qatar boys, well they're just smart business men and shouldn't divvy up anything with anyone.

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El Hombre Grand Master

El Hombre

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4 hours ago, VinceA said:

 Oh look what happens when we don't have a proper youth program! I believe this would provisionally cap-tie him as well.

I'm at a crossroads here.  How do I respond?

Option 1: In early April there were a few posters who cried "Nepotism!" when Herdman was included in that U20 camp.  So, some believe he wasn't good enough for a camp (let alone the tournament) and now we're upset he's going somewhere else?

Option 2: What more do you want in a youth program when they did what you requested in April? 

On 4/6/2022 at 8:37 AM, VinceA said:

Should add too that Herdman being a dual-nat means it is probably a good idea bringing him into the fold before NZ does.

Should they have brought him to the tournament over some other player who they believe was better, even though they had a first-hand chance to evaluate him?  Potentially over another, better dual national?

Option 3: Recognize that, while the youth programs can be improved, we will not cap every young player to ever kick a ball no matter how much money we put into it so there's no point in doing the Chicken Little every time a story like this comes up.

Decisions, decisions....

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Bison44 Grand Master

Bison44

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1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

There's such sweet sweet irony in this post that I almost contracted diabetes.

The Qatar boys who put their bodies, skill and time on the line, "should think on this a bit when they start divvying up the 10 mil," but the CSB who has been divvying up a lot more and living off the games played by those Qatar boys, well they're just smart business men and shouldn't divvy up anything with anyone.

We'll its up to them, they got fucked over with few camps and no money when they were youth players.  Say 5mil spit 26 ways..maybe 150k that they'll have to pay taxes on....plenty of pros put money back into the system when they start making good coin.  God knows the alumni association hounds me for money. Davies already said he would donate his money, so its not like they arent thinking of this stuff themselves.  

And as far as I know, none of the conspiracy guys have gotten proof that CSB gets a chunk of the Qatar bonus, or the bonuses the boys would have got already from the qualifying games. So those are 2 seperate things. If your talking about TV rights and sponsorship, the CSB paid 3mil for the rights they got (when no one else wanted them) and no one held a gun to CSA head.  No one complained until years later when the program hit the jackpot and there were RUMORS...RUMORS of big sponsorship deals.  Which I am still waiting on hearing these juicy details of the millions in profit CSB is making of these deals.

 

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kacbru Veteran

kacbru

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Posted (edited)

Re: what NZ is doing

You can see the 2020 annual report and financials here: https://www.sporty.co.nz/asset/downloadasset?id=7de74fb9-753d-436b-b5ae-915d6571d29c 

$2.6M surplus, $8.7M reserves, $3.7M from Commercial and Partnerships (28% of income).  Of course, costs were reduced due to reduced international competition due to covid.

U17 and U20 combined training camp, led by All Whites coach, despite the fact that international qualifying and competitions were cancelled.

The point is that, for both men and women, the U17 and U20 coaches are holding training camps, regional talent identification camps, etc. throughout the year.  It is an active program that doesn't just kick in the week before a qualifying tournament.

Edited by kacbru
re: NZ
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