Lucas Dias - Sporting CP

[dyslexic nam]

Definitely mixed feelings about this. 
 

Pros:

- CPL gets a promising young Canadian plying his trade in the league, not to mention what it should do for Cavalry

- CPL has a chance to continue proving itself as a springboard for talented young players

- realistically, he should be able to lock down serious minutes as a starter and hopefully major contributor in Cavalry’s upcoming campaign  

- strengthening ties to Canada (and getting him out of Portugal) has to be seen as a positive for us.  Realistically he isn’t going to be on their radar if this is his level right now, but I still like the idea of him immersed in our footy rather than theirs.     

 

Con:

- Given where he is coming from, this has to be viewed as a step back.  Hopefully it is one step back to ultimately take two forward, but this is a less exciting developmental pathway than taking a spot in a second tier European leagues.  

Edited February 5 by dyslexic nam

[shermanator]

CPL continuing to provide nothing of value to the Canadian soccer ecosystem /s

Edited February 5 by shermanator

[Obinna]

I seem to recall some debate about what'd be better for Dias, continuing with the Sporting reserves, or leaving for first team football at a lower level, such as the SPL.

I think at some point we got real hypothetical and tossed around the CPL as an idea. Well, seems like that's become the reality. Interesting.

Very excited to see how he does here though. Cavs really loading up on talent.

Putting local allegiance aside, I hope he comes in, does well, but then quickly moves on to greener pastures, as several Cavs players have done in the past.

Maybe he even takes the Loturi route and gets into Scottish football. Was close to an Aberdeen move not long ago.

Edited February 5 by Obinna

[jordan]

Awesome happy to see him get an opportunity 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

32 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Too bad Dias is leaving Europe for now,

20 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

...this has to be viewed as a step back.  

I disagree.

Given the updates @jordan has regularly been giving us, the last year has been rough for him and he's not really had much (if any) serious playing time.

 

11 minutes ago, shermanator said:

CPL continuing to provide nothing of value to the Canadian soccer ecosystem /s

Exactly. The CPL isn't just to develop your "TJ Tahid"s, it can allow other young Canadians an option to push the reset button.

[shermanator]

I don't know how anyone looks at this move to Cavalry and thinks this can be a step back. I think Dias is another case of people placing unreal expectations on a player based on what they do at youth levels and being disappointed when they don't have an Alphonso Davies like trajectory.

This is a move for Dias to get first team minutes that he is not getting in Portgual. The alternative is him continuing to stay at Sporting with his thumb up his ass waiting for a shot that looks less and less likely. 

 

[El Diego]

He's 21, he needs professional minutes ASAP. If this is a "step back" then he can dominate and build his resume. 

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I don't know how anyone looks at this move to Cavalry and thinks this can be a step back. I think Dias is another case of people placing unreal expectations on a player based on what they do at youth levels and being disappointed when they don't have an Alphonso Davies like trajectory.

This is a move for Dias to get first team minutes that he is not getting in Portgual. The alternative is him continuing to stay at Sporting with his thumb up his ass waiting for a shot that looks less and less likely. 

 

@Unnamed Trialist would almost certainly disagree with you here. In his view, there is great value being part of a world class European club, where you can learn the fine details of top football, which you wouldn't otherwise pick up at a lower level, even in a first team environment. I believe that was a big part of his argument when we bantered about it a while back.

Although I took the other side, I don't think his argument is without merit. CPL is a low level though (although rapidly improving), so I would like to hear him chime in on this.

[narduch]

I love this move.

Cavalry are the best stepping stone club in the CPL

[frmr]

Will have to head down to Spruce Meadows this summer and check him out. Good signing for Cavalry, somewhat disappointing that he didn't land on his feet in Europe.

[dyslexic nam]

27 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I don't know how anyone looks at this move to Cavalry and thinks this can be a step back. I think Dias is another case of people placing unreal expectations on a player based on what they do at youth levels and being disappointed when they don't have an Alphonso Davies like trajectory.

This is a move for Dias to get first team minutes that he is not getting in Portgual. The alternative is him continuing to stay at Sporting with his thumb up his ass waiting for a shot that looks less and less likely. 

 

The reality is that there is always a third option though, aside from CPL or Sporting reserves.  He could have theoretically moved to a second tier European league and fought for minutes.  I am not saying CPL will be a bad development for him.  I think it is a positive move given what was happening and in fact it is why my pro list was much longer than my con list.  But a year or two ago we were wondering if he had a pathway into Sporting’s senior team.  IMO, a transfer to CPL has to be viewed as a step back in that context.  Like I said, he could easily leverage it into a much better outcome than if he had stayed at Sporting, but I am just being realistic about it.  

[InglewoodJack]

38 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I disagree.

Given the updates @jordan has regularly been giving us, the last year has been rough for him and he's not really had much (if any) serious playing time.

 

Exactly. The CPL isn't just to develop your "TJ Tahid"s, it can allow other young Canadians an option to push the reset button.

My only concern is that teams in Scotland were apparently close last summer, but now he's ending up in the CPL, but on the other hand, I guess there's probably not the widest gap in the world between smaller scottish prem clubs and bigger CPL clubs like Cavalry. I think that what he needs most now is just time to run around on the field and play as many games as he can, so in that regard, I'm thrilled that he got his loan, and he got sent to a team where he's more or less guaranteed a starting spot that is his to lose.

Hard agree with the bolded too. The first comparison that comes to mind for me is Tiago Coimbra. Dropped down from Palmeiras to HFX which is a massive drop, but he was never gonna play for them, and he went to a HFX team who has a lot of minutes to give him. Dan Nimick is another one; just imagining how we'd feel if we followed him as a "Leeds United prospect!!!" only to have him drop down to CPL. Giving those guys the opportunity to grow their careers and one day move abroad is a big objective of the CPL, but if they fall short of that goal, they're two fine Canadian players playing in Canada and they (Nimick more so as of now) elevate the quality of play in the CPL which is another goal.

In any case, not sure if it's just because I've noticed more this year, but the CPL is going wild with good, new signings. Don't know how that'll translate to an elevation of the quality across the board this season, but I'm liking that we're bringing home a lot of Canadians home from Europe and elevating the talent in the league. Sure Dias could maybe learn more from a bigger club's academy, but with his lack of play, coming to Canada and competing for a title with Cavalry is probably closer to the experience he needs at this stage of his career.

Edited February 5 by InglewoodJack

[Aird25]

16 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The reality is that there is always a third option though, aside from CPL or Sporting reserves.  He could have theoretically moved to a second tier European league and fought for minutes.  I am not saying CPL will be a bad development for him.  I think it is a positive move given what was happening and in fact it is why my pro list was much longer than my con list.  But a year or two ago we were wondering if he had a pathway into Sporting’s senior team.  IMO, a transfer to CPL has to be viewed as a step back in that context.  Like I said, he could easily leverage it into a much better outcome than if he had stayed at Sporting, but I am just being realistic about it.  

Will he count for the U21 rule this season? If so, I don't think there's a better path to guaranteed first team minutes in Europe

[Unnamed Trialist]

44 minutes ago, Obinna said:

@Unnamed Trialist would almost certainly disagree with you here. In his view, there is great value being part of a world class European club, where you can learn the fine details of top football, which you wouldn't otherwise pick up at a lower level, even in a first team environment. I believe that was a big part of his argument when we bantered about it a while back.

Although I took the other side, I don't think his argument is without merit. CPL is a low level though (although rapidly improving), so I would like to hear him chime in on this.

This is where I say, "sorry, wasn't paying attention, was watching darts."

I think unless we know what kind of agent he has, and the conversations going on, we can't know. 

I assume he is on a youth salary, a relatively low salary, and that it would not have been an impediment for sending him on loan to a 2nd div Portugal or a modest SPL side, as had been rumoured. Teams would have paid it.

Then, I have no idea what the player is thinking. From my perspective he should go to a higher level, but maybe he'd like a reset back in Canada. You'd think that between him and his agent he could have gotten something in a pro league in Europe.

Finally, maybe they tried, did not work, and now they are going for this option. In fact, since Cavalry have moved after the transfer window closed in Europe, it looks like that. Apart from being great if they did, it suggests maybe he did not find what he was looking for until Feb 1 and took the Cavalry offer as soon as one door closed across the Atlantic.

Edit: do we know if the loan is until June 30 or for longer?

Edited February 5 by Unnamed Trialist

[shermanator]

21 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

The reality is that there is always a third option though, aside from CPL or Sporting reserves.  He could have theoretically moved to a second tier European league and fought for minutes.  I am not saying CPL will be a bad development for him.  I think it is a positive move given what was happening and in fact it is why my pro list was much longer than my con list.  But a year or two ago we were wondering if he had a pathway into Sporting’s senior team.  IMO, a transfer to CPL has to be viewed as a step back in that context.  Like I said, he could easily leverage it into a much better outcome than if he had stayed at Sporting, but I am just being realistic about it.  

Canadian soccer is littered with overhyped players who are lucky to have CPL around to extend their careers. Twardek, Bustos, Tabla are good recent examples. Hype gets found out pretty quick and there's usually good reason players don't reach the stratosphere that people think they will. 

If Dias is as good as people claim, then he can dominate CPL for a year and then move on to better things. I'm not expecting that in the slightest.

[jordan]

Could get a dream home debut at Starlight stadium

[Bigandy]

Good for lucas! I'm a bit disheartened he didnt stay in europe to find first team minutes but hopefully this is a springboard. 

The biggest challenge so far with the CPL is that its not quite if he will get lost in the shuffle or springboard. 

The best CPL exports are waterman, LM, zator, loturi, farsi, abzi. None of these guys are at the CMNT level (which i know will cause debate). The floor of CMNT has raised to just above these guys. Any injuries, out of form players and we find ourselves calling up some of the guys. If things keep improving then our floor will further surpass these guys. 

At 21, Dias likely will take a year or 2 before a hopeful move to mls. If he follows rea's path then maybe 2-3 more years to get himself as a starters. Then he's ready for a CMNT call up at age 26ish. Theres plenty of time and this could be a useful pathway towards contributing to CMNT but it feels like if he signed in the MLS and was able to start there from day 1, then he can skip a few years and become vital for CMNT. 

Maybe wishful thinking but I had hoped he could get 1st team minutes at a level slightly higher than CPL 

[Bigandy]

Hold up. I just realized this is a loan. Thats fantastic. A great loan year in CPL and then hes sold to scotland or something next year. 

[Obinna]

Yeah I didn't realize it was a loan either. It's good he can help the Cavs, get minutes under his belt, play in some new competitions, and hopefully get at least two matches against MLS competition.

Then, will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd like to see that Aberdeen move happen, but if he can somehow make inroads at Sporting off the back of this loan, that'd be excellent.

[JasonDias]

44 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Edit: do we know if the loan is until June 30 or for longer?

June 30. This move works for everyone involved. We are excited to see him play this journey out. Someone will have to direct/send me a Calvary jersey haha... the online shops are horrible. 

Also the U21 rule is really an underrated gem for the CPL, many here would be surprised how much of it is talked about in Portuguese and Spanish academies. 

Edited February 5 by JasonDias

[jdheid]

20 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Hold up. I just realized this is a loan. Thats fantastic. A great loan year in CPL and then hes sold to scotland or something next year. 

I'm optimistically hoping that Sporting sees the level of CPL as now good enough to build value in their prospect.

I wonder if the loss of OneSoccer and the relatively high quality of game footage available to showcase CPL players might hurt their prospects of being seen as well by bigger leagues?

I remember Louis Beland Goyette saying how the guys in the Maltese League were blown away by OneSoccer and the quality of production as they had really nothing in the way of professional footage in their league.

[Unnamed Trialist]

As I say, I saw a few matches in his Youth League campaign a few years ago. 

He was a high-paced, technical attacking mid, mostly on the left. He looked for a shot on the top of the box, looked actively for passes to raise the level of the attack. If he comes anything near the potential, he'd be a Manny Aparicio or Bustos type player.

He seemed a bit slight, like many younger Portuguese players, so I'd like to see how he's developed physically. Can he handle the play over 90 minutes with men? In Youth League he'd defend positionally but was not really biting or a hard tackler. Another thing that he may have to add. 

I think the best case scenario is

1-he proves he can start and contribute to one of the best teams in the league.

2-he can go 90 and not drop off and have to always be subbed

3-he can stay healthy, that the pace of a season will not leave him by the way.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

27 minutes ago, JasonDias said:

This move works for everyone involved. We are excited to see him play this journey out....Also the U21 rule is really an underrated gem for the CPL...

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Will he count for the U21 rule this season? If so, I don't think there's a better path to guaranteed first team minutes in Europe

As @JasonDias implied, yes he will count. ✅️

For the 2024 year it is 2003s and younger.

If Lucas was about 20 days older maybe this loan deal wouldn't have happened.

Edited February 5 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Obinna]

45 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Canadian soccer is littered with overhyped players who are lucky to have CPL around to extend their careers. Twardek, Bustos, Tabla are good recent examples. Hype gets found out pretty quick and there's usually good reason players don't reach the stratosphere that people think they will. 

If Dias is as good as people claim, then he can dominate CPL for a year and then move on to better things. I'm not expecting that in the slightest.

That can literally be said about soccer in any country. I don't think that's exclusive to Canadian Soccer. Yes, these guys are lucky to have CPL, not saying otherwise, but I do find your take here a bit simplistic.

Tabla in particular was not just some overhyped young player that eventually got exposed for being average. Tabla always was (and still is) a talented player. Barca don't just acquire players because of hype, even for the B team. They acquire players with the potential to benefit the club. Not all work out, that's the reality, and no doubt there are a multitude of factors that determine who sinks and who swims.

IMO it's too simple a view to look at Tabla and say he just got found out when he went to a higher level. That may be true for some players, but in his case I strongly disagree.

Likewise, I don't think we should start questioning how talented Dias once he comes here and doesn't rip apart the league. He's obviously talented, otherwise he wouldn't be on the books of Sporting.

If we want to judge his talented, all we have to do is keep an eye out for flashes of quality in certain moments of games.

Hopefully we see him pulling it all together and having an impact. Will be good for Cavalry and Canada if he does.

[Unnamed Trialist]

30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Tabla in particular was not just some overhyped young player that eventually got exposed for being average. Tabla always was (and still is) a talented player. Barca don't just acquire players because of hype, even for the B team. They acquire players with the potential to benefit the club. Not all work out, that's the reality, and no doubt there are a multitude of factors that determine who sinks and who swims.

IMO it's too simple a view to look at Tabla and say he just got found out when he went to a higher level. That may be true for some players, but in his case I strongly disagree.

Tabla was playing in Spanish 2nd division as a teen.

The story is that he came to Barça, played Barcelona B in 2nd division, they relegated (very rarely a B team stays up in 2nd), he played Spanish 3rd tier, then they thought he should go to a higher level and sent him to Albacete. Where the coach (Ramis, who is now screwing up at Espanyol) did not play him. He was only there for 4 months.

In all normal scenarios, you go back to the club that has your contract. All he had to do was say, okay, another season at Barça B. They could not have stopped him. He also could have refused a loan, as many of the kids do, because of the need for stability. He would have gotten minutes, and consolidated at that corresponding level. 

The kid was training with the first team, he actually played friendlies with the first team. 

So there was nothing wrong with the level. As I saw it, he personally could not handle the pressure of the expectations, was poorly advised, his agent did not do the right thing, and he probably needed some family support as I think he has high anxiety. Which is why he might just need to be a player excelling close to home and staying close to home, for the sake of his personal happiness.

Edited February 5 by Unnamed Trialist