Lucas Dias - Sporting CP

[Bigandy]

53 minutes ago, Xavier. said:

Half the matches he wasn’t in the 18. Someone like Lazar Stefanovic has double his mins. 

For sure stefanovic is a way better player.  I dont rate campagna much. Its just not a fair comparison to dias as hes signed a first team contract and dias hasnt. 

[Xavier.]

1 minute ago, Bigandy said:

For sure stefanovic is a way better player.  I dont rate campagna much. Its just not a fair comparison to dias as hes signed a first team contract and dias hasnt. 

I wasn’t comparing their abilities. I used him as an example of Campagna’s lack of playing time even though he has a HG contract.

[Bigandy]

Pinto and Ferreria on the bench of a europa league game.  There literally is no argument that dias is on the outs. When dias is mentioned in the same article as 2 youth players on the bench of a europa league game, there is no doubt that he is not on the "outs"

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

For sure stefanovic is a way better player.  I dont rate campagna much. Its just not a fair comparison to dias as hes signed a first team contract and dias hasnt. 

In Europe there's no such thing as "2nd team" "1st team" designation in contracts like in the MLS.  It's just a professional contract.  The club assigns you a team.  The one contract has different salaries listed based on whichever team within that club you make an appearance for.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Footyeh

[Bigandy]

Just now, Footyeh said:

In Europe there's no such thing as "2nd team" "1st team" designation in contracts like in the MLS.  It's just a professional contract.  The club assigns you a team.  The one contract has different salaries listed based on whichever team within that club you make an appearance for.

Yes, on a technicality you are right. The spirit of the argument is that Campagna is listed as a first team player. Dias is not. Youre comparing a sr player to a youth player.  Apples to oranges.

However, now that sporting has 2 injuries and replaced them with 2 of the 3 call ups in the article( for a europa league game), would you continue to say dias is a player that sporting is trying to dump? 

[Big_M]

hes not necessarily on the outs...but hes not a first team player...or a second team player...oldest players on the second team are 21 and dias is the oldest on the u23 team

[Obinna]

33 minutes ago, Big_M said:

hes not necessarily on the outs...but hes not a first team player...or a second team player...oldest players on the second team are 21 and dias is the oldest on the u23 team

Exactly why it seems the end of his Sporting road is near. If so I am looking forward to seeing how he takes what he learned into first team football at a lower level. 

If he can land in the SPL like Aberdeen or a lower Portuguese team like Chaves, does he get a NT call?

@Unnamed Trialist I am guessing you would say no as you seem to value youth ball at Sporting over say a move to a club like Aberdeen. What does everyone else think?

I have a slim hope he can somehow make the Sporting first team squad, but probably not likely at this rate.

[Big_M]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Exactly why it seems the end of his Sporting road is near. If so I am looking forward to seeing how he takes what he learned into first team football at a lower level. 

If he can land in the SPL like Aberdeen or a lower Portuguese team like Chaves, does he get a NT call?

@Unnamed Trialist I am guessing you would say no as you seem to value youth ball at Sporting over say a move to a club like Aberdeen. What does everyone else think?

I have a slim hope he can somehow make the Sporting first team squad, but probably not likely at this rate.

did you miss the part where hes not getting time in the portuguese third tier or that he was mostly a sub in the u23 team last year?

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Big_M said:

did you miss the part where hes not getting time in the portuguese third tier or that he was mostly a sub in the u23 team last year?

What do you think? Go back through the thread if you need help.

[Footyeh]

6 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Yes, on a technicality you are right. The spirit of the argument is that Campagna is listed as a first team player. Dias is not. Youre comparing a sr player to a youth player.  Apples to oranges.

However, now that sporting has 2 injuries and replaced them with 2 of the 3 call ups in the article( for a europa league game), would you continue to say dias is a player that sporting is trying to dump? 

Unfortunately, yes.  

 

I should state for the record I definitely want this player to leave and succeed.  My comments here have nothing to do with how I feel about the players quality or potential.

[Footyeh]

Perfect timing for this thread....

Diallo involved in 1st team training despite having played only 38 mins out of a potential 450 through 5 league matches in his own age group.  It happens, 1st team need bodies.  1st team plays 2 games 5 days, senior players take rest.

https://x.com/CratesOfFrates/status/1710069268988023229?s=20 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Footyeh

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Perfect timing for this thread....

Diallo involved in 1st team training despite having played only 38 mins out of a potential 450 through 5 league matches in his own age group.  It happens, 1st team need bodies.  1st team plays 2 games 5 days, senior players take rest.

https://x.com/CratesOfFrates/status/1710069268988023229?s=20 

Yes.

I noticed he was an unused sub in a recent Primavera game against Frosinone and Damar Dixon 

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:51 AM, Footyeh said:

Mate, clubs really aren’t looking at the how a player is ranked within their club when they simply need bodies for a session.  If you’ve been to any club in Europe and observed training you’d see it.  Heck, go to your local mls club and you’ll see the same thing.  Kids get used as pylons a lot.  You’re just really over-thinking things.  
 

Also, we don’t know what the players expectations were about an exit.  Has he been realistic?  Does he have poor advisors?  These situations are common all across Europe.  

Completely wrong once again, but keep pulling this stuff out of whatever body part that's willing.

Callups to train with higher level teams in a club are always earned, never random, tiered, paced and based on discussions taking place between coaching staff. They could be rotated, but since they're a prize for a younger player, they aren't unthought. They are incentives and aren't gratuitous. 

In contrast, if you don't train well, aren't performing, have a bad attitude, have not convinced coaches, you will not be picked as a pylon. Only exception is when you need an extra keeper and don't want to force any of those being regularly relied upon. Or during international windows on big clubs where a dozen guys are away.

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Completely wrong once again, but keep pulling this stuff out of whatever body part that's willing.

Callups to train with higher level teams in a club are always earned, never random, tiered, paced and based on discussions taking place between coaching staff. They could be rotated, but since they're a prize for a younger player, they aren't unthought. They are incentives and aren't gratuitous. 

In contrast, if you don't train well, aren't performing, have a bad attitude, have not convinced coaches, you will not be picked as a pylon. Only exception is when you need an extra keeper and don't want to force any of those being regularly relied upon. Or during international windows on big clubs where a dozen guys are away.

 

I don't see how what you are saying makes him wrong though. It makes sense to me you have to earn the right to be a pylon, but at the same time it may not have any bearing on how you are ranked in the sense of being close to the first team. I imagine having the right attitude is a very important factor. Didn't Tabla train with the Barca first team a few times? I recall that. He wasn't that close to playing for the first team, but being chosen to train for the first team was something of a reward for what he was doing - so both things could be true, no?

[Bigandy]

13 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Unfortunately, yes.  

 

I should state for the record I definitely want this player to leave and succeed.  My comments here have nothing to do with how I feel about the players quality or potential.

He was one injury from sitting on the bench for the first team in europa league.  I have no idea how that implies hes on the "outs".  

I know we all support him and are just debating his club situation and hopefully its just respectful differences of opinion which is what this forums about. I really enjoy engaging with others on here like you.  

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Bigandy said:

He was one injury from sitting on the bench for the first team in europa league.  I have no idea how that implies hes on the "outs".  

I know we all support him and are just debating his club situation and hopefully its just respectful differences of opinion which is what this forums about. I really enjoy engaging with others on here like you.  

For me it's a matter of relatively few of these occurrences at the age of 20. It's good he is an injury or two from being named to the bench on this occasion and hopefully that suggests he is a late bloomer, but like I pointed out there are many other players in the system who are younger that have done this and earned first team minutes. Doesn't mean Dias can't leapfrog them all, but you have to admit that he's playing catch up a bit, right? 

[Bigandy]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't see how what you are saying makes him wrong though. It makes sense to me you have to earn the right to be a pylon, but at the same time it may not have any bearing on how you are ranked in the sense of being close to the first team. I imagine having the right attitude is a very important factor. Didn't Tabla train with the Barca first team a few times? I recall that. He wasn't that close to playing for the first team, but being chosen to train for the first team was something of a reward for what he was doing - so both things could be true, no?

I would agree in general. The "available" player whos earned it gets the first callup. If every B team player is injured, sporting would go to the u23s and maybe non of their players are close to a sr appearance. However, the concept is you choose the best available player, NOT the worst player. That's my whole argument. You have the opportunity to reward a deserving youngster, give him experience on the bench in europa league, maybe even an appearance. This provides so much value to a young player. Why would you waste those resources on a guy you are trying to kick off the team when you have a someone you value sitting at home watching this. If nothing else its horrible for morale. 

Another point is that apparently yamal looks like an even better player for the first team than he did with his peers. Some players get better with better players around them. Youth appearances isnt 100% correlated to first team ceiling.  UT do you know if this is true? 

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

For me it's a matter of relatively few of these occurrences at the age of 20. It's good he is an injury or two from being named to the bench on this occasion and hopefully that suggests he is a late bloomer, but like I pointed out there are many other players in the system who are younger that have done this and earned first team minutes. Doesn't mean Dias can't leapfrog them all, but you have to admit that he's playing catch up a bit, right? 

100%. Ill reiterate that my argument isnt that hes close to the first team. Its that hes not on the "outs". how far he is from the first team is very unknown to me atm. 

Edit: and by "outs" I mean the club is trying to cancel his contract and get rid of him because they are no longer invested in him.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Bigandy

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

100%. Ill reiterate that my argument isnt that hes close to the first team. Its that hes not on the "outs". how far he is from the first team is very unknown to me atm. 

Edit: and by "outs" I mean the club is trying to cancel his contract and get rid of him because they are no longer invested in him.

I don't think anyone ever argued the club is trying to cancel his contract. If my point was taken as such, please know that wasn't what I was suggesting. 

 

Edit - I see now @Footyeh responding to you about wanting to dump him. I kind of lean towards you and @Unnamed Trialist on that, because I wouldn't go as far as to say they are trying to dump him. I would morseso say that I am not convinced he has leapfrogged his peers. I hope he has though that'd be sweet.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Obinna
correction

[Bigandy]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't think anyone ever argued the club is trying to cancel his contract. If my point was taken as such, please know that wasn't what I was suggesting. 

 

Edit - I see now @Footyeh responding to you about wanting to dump him. I kind of lean towards you and @Unnamed Trialist on that, because I wouldn't go as far as to say they are trying to dump him. I would morseso say that I am not convinced he has leapfrogged his peers. I hope he has though that'd be sweet.

Im with you on the "Edit".  Its a sign that hes not wanting to be dumped if hes brought in with the first team. Its not necessarily a sign he is close to first team minutes...only time will tell. 

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Completely wrong once again, but keep pulling this stuff out of whatever body part that's willing.

Callups to train with higher level teams in a club are always earned, never random, tiered, paced and based on discussions taking place between coaching staff. They could be rotated, but since they're a prize for a younger player, they aren't unthought. They are incentives and aren't gratuitous. 

In contrast, if you don't train well, aren't performing, have a bad attitude, have not convinced coaches, you will not be picked as a pylon. Only exception is when you need an extra keeper and don't want to force any of those being regularly relied upon. Or during international windows on big clubs where a dozen guys are away.

 

You of all people saying I'm wrong, comedy.  I end up proving you wrong in every thread

Edited October 6, 2023 by Footyeh

[Footyeh]

28 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

He was one injury from sitting on the bench for the first team in europa league.  I have no idea how that implies hes on the "outs".  

I know we all support him and are just debating his club situation and hopefully its just respectful differences of opinion which is what this forums about. I really enjoy engaging with others on here like you.  

No he wasn't.  The boy himself will even tell you that himself.

[Bigandy]

22 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

No he wasn't.  The boy himself will even tell you that himself.

What are you talking about?  They had a roster with 3 extra players. 2 players were injured. 2 of the 3 extra training players were on the bench.  Logically speaking if they had one more injury than the 3rd player would have been named to the bench. That 3rd player is dias.   

[narduch]

I've learned from Justin Smith not to get too excited about a player making a bench

[Footyeh]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

What are you talking about?  They had a roster with 3 extra players. 2 players were injured. 2 of the 3 extra training players were on the bench.  Logically speaking if they had one more injury than the 3rd player would have been named to the bench. That 3rd player is dias.   

Mate... it's not so complicated.  He's not even making the roster for the C team regularly, he's no where near the B team.... you think he's going to make the Europa league bench lol?  

I'll admit it was wrong to use the word "dump", but what other word would you use for a player in his situation?   He's not wanted, he has no future there.  These situations don't change for the better at that age.