2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[MM3/MM2/MM]

The easy solution is to have the 4 semi-finalist from each season get a bye to the quarterfinals the following season.  No complicated point systems required.

[Rocket Robin]

So Toronto FC are suddenly in the 'Leagues Cup'...a competition between MLS and Mexican teams.  

Round of 16 one leg games this summer.  8 MLS and 8 Mexican league teams.  MLS host all the games when possible.

OK so only conflict is the final of that tourney is September 16th which is the midweek of the Canadian Championship/Voyageurs Cup Final 1st leg.  

Could happen as MLS teams will play nothing but home games in this tourney and TFC also has been a finalist in the Canadian Championship every year since 2015.   

 

[Kent]

The Leagues Cup BS tournament is an argument against giving MLS teams preferential treatment due to fixture congestion. If they can accommodate that meaningless cash grab, then they can accommodate some Voyageurs Cup games.

The semi finalists get a bye solution is all well and good this year, but the number of teams can change, and @Unnamed Trialist coefficient system is more malleable to be able to handle any number of teams.

And the comment about their being a hierarchy, the coefficient system keeps the MLS teams honest and also reacts to any changes over time, for example if the gap between MLS and CPL teams (or between CPL and lower level leagues) is reduced or even flipped one day you aren’t left with some archaic rule giving MLS teams a bye just because.

And for anyone worried about blowouts, let’s worry about that if/when it becomes a problem. MLS teams failed to beat CPL teams by 2 goals I believe in any game last year, and the D3 teams I think did similarly well against CPL teams.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Kent

[narduch]

Kurt Larson tweeted that Ottawa is likely to play Masters in a play-in game. Meaning the rest of the tournament format would stay the same.

So I guess the winner would take on York9.

I was kind of hoping to get TFC v. York9 but that may be in doubt now if Atletico Ottawa can get their shit together.

Edited February 21, 2020 by narduch

[narduch]

On the other hand if Ottawa can get by Masters and York9 we will get the Mista returns to BMO Field story line

[MM3/MM2/MM]

If there was a play-in game, I assumed it would be against Blainville (2 hours) vs Masters (5 hours). Would also help Blainville if they lose to Ottawa of having the expense of going to Halifax.

Also better for the fans, last year I went from Ottawa to see the York9/Blainville game, Unlikely i will go to Toronto for a midweek game.  I'm sure a more Blainville fans will make it to Ottawa then Halifax.

Edited February 21, 2020 by MM3/MM2/MM

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

And for anyone worried about blowouts, let’s worry about that if/when it becomes a problem. MLS teams failed to beat CPL teams by 2 goals I believe in any game last year, and the D3 teams I think did similarly well against CPL teams.

Was on the subway when I posted this. I've confirmed it now.

Inter-league results from last year.

Blainville (PLSQ) vs York 9 (CPL). 0-0 draw, and 1-0 win for York 9. No blowouts.

Vaughan Azzuri (L1O) vs HFX Wanderers (CPL). 3-2 win for HFX and 1-0 win for Vaughan. No blowouts.

York 9 (CPL) vs Montreal (MLS). 2-2 draw, and 1-0 win for Montreal. No blowouts.

Cavalry (CPL) vs Vancouver (MLS). 0-0 draw, and 2-1 win for Cavalry. No blowouts.

HFX Wanderers (CPL) vs Ottawa Fury (USL). 3-2 win for Ottawa, and 2-2 draw. No blowouts.

Montreal (MLS) vs Cavalry (CPL). 2-1 win for Montreal, and 1-0 win for Montreal. No blowouts.

Ottawa Fury (USL) vs Toronto (MLS). 2-0 win for Toronto, and 3-0 win for Toronto. 2 multi goal wins, and over 2 legs it was a blowout, but even a 3-0 win isn't a problematically large blowout that we need to be scared of.

So 5 positive results for the *lower league teams out of 12 matches (6 out of 14 if you think USL > CPL or vice versa), only 2 multi goal losses, and I don't think any that were big enough that would be considered a problem that needs fixing.

*Assuming MLS > CPL/USL > PLSQ/L1O

[Rintaran]

1 hour ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

If there was a play-in game, I assumed it would be against Blainville (2 hours) vs Masters (5 hours). Would also help Blainville if they lose to Ottawa of having the expense of going to Halifax.

Also better for the fans, last year I went from Ottawa to see the York9/Blainville game, Unlikely i will go to Toronto for a midweek game.  I'm sure a more Blainville fans will make it to Ottawa then Halifax.

I would have expected Blainville vs Ottawa as well, but I'm guessing it may be an "entered competition for the first time this year" thing, whereas Blainville have been there since the PLSQ received a spot.

[Cheeta]

I'm good with that.  Rough on the amateur side/sides but it is what it is.

Wouldn't be upset if all the expansion teams coming into the league these next few years had to travel a similar path for their 1st go at the Vs Cup.  Seed them appropriately in year 2.

[Kent]

So MLS teams are going to be in Orlando, and CPL teams are going to be somewhere in Canada. Exact details aren’t known, but I think for MLS it is going at least into mid August. I wonder if there is going to be any opportunity to play the Voyageurs Cup this year. I hope it doesn’t come down to picking a favourite league and then sending the highest finisher of that league to 2021 CCL.

[narduch]

Apparently MLS will have a regular season after this Orlando tournament. 

So there would still be time for Voyageurs Cup. 

However the schedules may be cramped? 

It might make sense to just have the CPL champs take on the highest seeded MLS team in a one off match?

[Watchmen]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:42 PM, Kent said:

So MLS teams are going to be in Orlando, and CPL teams are going to be somewhere in Canada. Exact details aren’t known, but I think for MLS it is going at least into mid August. I wonder if there is going to be any opportunity to play the Voyageurs Cup this year. I hope it doesn’t come down to picking a favourite league and then sending the highest finisher of that league to 2021 CCL.

Things are always changing, but I believe at one point (and this would have been in...April?) that Rollins reported that if they couldn't get the Voyagers Cup going this year the highest finishing MLS team would be the 2021 CCL representative.  If no games were played, Montreal would represent again.  There's obviously now going to be games, but if there's no Cup then I'd think you're getting the top MLS side.

I do wonder if there'd be a way to get the Cup in at the end of the season.  I think the regular season is going to end up being too packed, as all leagues try to get in as many games as possible.

And of course, if there's no Voyagers Cup this year, that's just further proof to me that this was 100% going to be the year the Whitecaps won it again, because no team is as cursed in this tournament as the Whitecaps.

[SpursFlu]

If it needs to happen in the winter. BC Place 

[nfitz]

22 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

If it needs to happen in the winter. BC Place 

If we get to winter, or at least January, then should cancel.

[Ansem]

 

[BuzzAndSting]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

Amazing. And Ottawa has to be in now.

[Watchmen]

As a bonus, this MLS tournament winner gets a spot in the Champions League, even if the winner is a Canadian team. Means we could get two spots for the first time, plus the League spot.

[RJB]

Given that a "Canadian" team could get an American berth only makes the three MLS teams in Canadian cities claim to a Canadian berth in the CCL more tenuous. 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, RJB said:

Given that a "Canadian" team could get an American berth only makes the three MLS teams in Canadian cities claim to a Canadian berth in the CCL more tenuous. 

Canada only gets a berth straight to the Champions League *because* of the three MLS teams.  Otherwise, all of Canada's spots would be in the Concacaf League, similar to every country in Central America.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Watchmen

[Kent]

As a TFC fan, obviously my hope would be for TFC to win this Disney tournament, but if they can't, I do really hope a Canadian team steals that American CCL spot. If it happens and that team makes the Voyageurs Cup final, then the finalist would presumably get the other CCL spot. So this very, very slightly increases the odds of a CPL team making it to the next CCL.

[RJB]

21 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Canada only gets a berth straight to the Champions League *because* of the three MLS teams.  Otherwise, all of Canada's spots would be in the Concacaf League, similar to every country in Central America.

There is no need for a team from an American League to take the place of a canadian team. Perhaps you’re right that their results have earned us the direct berth, but they should qualify via the league they play in. Perhaps it made sense when we had no league, but so long as CPL exists, the league winner should go. 

[Watchmen]

16 minutes ago, RJB said:

There is no need for a team from an American League to take the place of a canadian team. Perhaps you’re right that their results have earned us the direct berth, but they should qualify via the league they play in. Perhaps it made sense when we had no league, but so long as CPL exists, the league winner should go. 

My point is that if you remove the MLS teams, the Champions League berth doesn't go directly to the CPL.  That Canada was only awarded a spot directly to the Champions League because of the MLS teams, and if they're no longer a factor then CONCACAF would likely bump Canada's spots down to the League only, not direct Champions League.

[RJB]

23 hours ago, Watchmen said:

My point is that if you remove the MLS teams, the Champions League berth doesn't go directly to the CPL.  That Canada was only awarded a spot directly to the Champions League because of the MLS teams, and if they're no longer a factor then CONCACAF would likely bump Canada's spots down to the League only, not direct Champions League.

Our CCL spots are given to the federation who decides which competition winner gets them. CONCACAF gives us one each, then CSA slots to the the vCup and CPL as they do. I think they should be reversed and the three mls teams either go that route(vCup) or via their domestic league. 

[Watchmen]

34 minutes ago, RJB said:

Our CCL spots are given to the federation who decides which competition winner gets them. CONCACAF gives us one each, then CSA slots to the the vCup and CPL as they do. I think they should be reversed and the three mls teams either go that route(vCup) or via their domestic league. 

CONCACAF decides what spots each federation gets.  They allocate out a CCL spot to Canada because Canada has 3 MLS teams eligible for the competition.  Were the CSA to decide that the MLS teams were ineligible for any of Canada's spots, I suspect CONCACAF would revoke the CCL spot.  There is no reason to think that CONCACAF would allow the CPL direct entry to the CCL, given that they haven't extended the same direct entry to leagues that currently produce higher caliber teams such as Costa Rica or Honduras.

[RJB]

Because now that I really think about it, the three MLS clubs now have two countries from which they can qualify for their continental competition.  If they don't qualify via the USA route, then they can try again in Canada.  Is there any precedent for this?

And what if they qualify in the US, and win the Voyageurs Cup?  Who gets Canada's berth then?

PLUS! If TFC, Impact, or Whitecaps win the MLS berth in the tournament, then would they be a Canadian entry in CCL, or an American one?  I'm not entirely sure that being defined as an American team is something they can really come back from... let's wait and see!