2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[Ansem]

Best V Cup EVER?

QF

• Pacific vs Vancouver ---> That would be INSANE
• Cavalry vs Forge
• Halifax vs Montreal
• York9 vs TFC -->>>INSANE

 

[SpursFlu]

I'm super curious about a Caps Pacific game. I would definitely head to Victoria. Would be interesting to see the away support at BC Place

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm super curious about a Caps Pacific game. I would definitely head to Victoria. Would be interesting to see the away support at BC Place

And how many on the lower mainland that would throw their support behind Pacific instead...

[deschamp86]

My first impression is that I quite like it. Making it more regional I think is the way to go to build up some rivalries

[narduch]

Forge should be entering in the Quarter's as CPL League champs.

Other than that I'm ok with the format, even if it was doctored.

[deschamp86]

24 minutes ago, narduch said:

Forge should be entering in the Quarter's as CPL League champs.

Other than that I'm ok with the format, even if it was doctored.

The reasoning is that Cavalry went further in the tournament last year which I am fine with. It is definitely better than last year's "these guys were in CPL first" draw

[narduch]

34 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

The reasoning is that Cavalry went further in the tournament last year which I am fine with. It is definitely better than last year's "these guys were in CPL first" draw

So if an MLS team gets knocked out in the Quarter's that means they would need to start in the earlier round in 2021? I doubt the CSA does that.

I hope they stay consistent.

[Cblake]

Only would have done is flip Forge and Calgary. The champion should have got the bye. 

[Cblake]

21 minutes ago, narduch said:

So if an MLS team gets knocked out in the Quarter's that means they would need to start in the earlier round in 2021? I doubt the CSA does that.

I hope they stay consistent.

In this current format, MLS is above CPL. It is the 3 MLS sides plus the top CPL side however that is determined. CPL is no different than USL and NASL have been in the past. 

[deschamp86]

23 minutes ago, narduch said:

So if an MLS team gets knocked out in the Quarter's that means they would need to start in the earlier round in 2021? I doubt the CSA does that.

I hope they stay consistent.

I guess the only way we would have known was if the Fury didn't fold

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

And how many on the lower mainland that would throw their support behind Pacific instead...

Not many.. But anyone who is from the Island would definitely. There is an untapped rivalry/animosity between Is and people and Lower Mainland people. Playful of course, but I'm just curious to see how it would play out

[Rintaran]

I have to say, I'm surprisingly pleased with this format.

It's not perfect and won't satisfy everyone, but all-in-all, I think they did a good job.

I also agree with how they chose to see the Cavs, based upon play in the V-Cup. It's a reasonable determination. They could have gone with who was the league champ, but it's much the same either way. Unless Valour improve in a shocking & dramatic fashion, or Forge find themselves plagued with injury, the quarters would be Cavs vs Forge either way.

Already has me wondering about 2021/2022...

If you add 3 new CPL sides (2021), you can pop all except the previous year's champions out to the starting round.

For 2022, add in the 2021 L1BC champ, you could pop all 4 quarter-finalists right out and have a random draw or regional competition right from the start (assuming no additional CPL teams).

I have to say, I like the flexibility this format could have if extended properly (which would probably be a tall order, but it anything could happen).

Still would love to see it extended to provide access for the orphaned USL2 sides and Challenge Trophy champion, but that may take care of itself in time.

[Kent]

56 minutes ago, Cblake said:

In this current format, MLS is above CPL. It is the 3 MLS sides plus the top CPL side however that is determined. CPL is no different than USL and NASL have been in the past. 

But why? What did Vancouver do to earn their bye? They lost the one and only round they played in last year if memory serves. USL and NASL were both explicitly below MLS in a pyramid, and neither ever eliminated an MLS team. Neither of those things can be said about CPL.

[Cblake]

29 minutes ago, Kent said:

But why? What did Vancouver do to earn their bye? They lost the one and only round they played in last year if memory serves. USL and NASL were both explicitly below MLS in a pyramid, and neither ever eliminated an MLS team. Neither of those things can be said about CPL.

It is simple, MLS is the better league. You can not compare the two. The US Open is the same, where they enter in the rounds after USL. For the time being it is what it is. Wonder if the CSA would move the York 9 leg of the round vs Toronto to cash in on a BMO Crowd. You can pretty much be assured if Masters Futbol were to upset York it would. 

[nfitz]

35 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Wonder if the CSA would move the York 9 leg of the round vs Toronto to cash in on a BMO Crowd. 

I'd assume that second game wouldn't be included in the Toronto FC ticket package. Would they really sell 8,000 tickets? York 9 only sold 728 to the match versus FC Edmonton.

Does York Lions Stadium really seat 8,000? Didn't seem that big for the one match I attended last year. What was the last non-season Ticket Canadian Championship game at BMO? Was it the 2018 final against the Whitecaps, when TFC drew less than 15,000?

I say hold it at York.

Now, Toronto FC at L'Amoreaux Park would be interesting. I see the capacity listed as 500 on one unreliable site, and 2,000 on another.

Gosh, 6 rows of seats, with one full section, and two half-sections. What, about 80 a row? 500 sounds about right.

I wonder what other options there are. Birchmount is larger and in Scarborough - though it's almost as far away from L'Amoreaux as York U!

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by nfitz

[Cblake]

47 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'd assume that second game wouldn't be included in the Toronto FC ticket package. Would they really sell 8,000 tickets? York 9 only sold 728 to the match versus FC Edmonton.

Does York Lions Stadium really seat 8,000? Didn't seem that big for the one match I attended last year. What was the last non-season Ticket Canadian Championship game at BMO? Was it the 2018 final against the Whitecaps, when TFC drew less than 15,000?

I say hold it at York.

Now, Toronto FC at L'Amoreaux Park would be interesting. I see the capacity listed as 500 on one unreliable site, and 2,000 on another.

Gosh, 6 rows of seats, with one full section, and two half-sections. What, about 80 a row? 500 sounds about right.

I wonder what other options there are. Birchmount is larger and in Scarborough - though it's almost as far away from L'Amoreaux as York U!

 

The biggest difference when comparing the 2018 Final vs Vancouver is that they had just over two weeks to sell that game. They were never going to make that mistake again. It was put back in the package last year. You have 6 months to sell the game in this scenario of playing both legs at BMO. 

[Terry_Canuck]

I like the format and am praying we get by Blainville to set up a dream match with the champions.

The potential for regional match-ups and a Forge-Cavalry re-match is very mouthwatering indeed. 

[dnina10]

I don't like this idea for the Canadian Championship. Trying to cut down costs for the Semiprofessional teams, fair enough. I won't argue with that. I don't have a problem with Cavalry getting a bye into the quarterfinal, as they earned that, but I do have a problem with Whitecaps FC a bye. They should be playing in the qualifying round instead of Forge FC, the national champion. I would have went for a seeded draw putting TFC and the Impact on opposite sides of the draw (as they were last year's finalists) and put the semipro clubs on opposite sides as well (to keep each side of the draw balanced). The format itself is fine. I am pissed about us having to play an extra round. It's ridiculous.

For those talking about Forge getting a bye instead of Cavalry, there was a similar situation in Belgium in their cup (known as the Croky Cup). Last year's champions (KV Mechelen) were kicked out of this year's competition due to match fixing in a league match. Although they were caught, they still maintained their spot in Belgium's top flight, at Beerschot's expense (the team they beat in the 2nd tier final). Usually all 16 first tier clubs for the current season get a bye to the round of 32, but with Mechelen being kicked out, a spot was vacated. Instead of giving it to Beerschot, the KBVB (Belgium's football association) awarded the spot to another second tier team (Union St. Gilloise) due to their performance in the previous season's competition (they reached the semifinals, losing to KV Mechelen). So a situation like that isn't alien to people. Should Forge have been given the bye? I think so. If Cavalry had won the cup last year, that would have been a different story. However, there is no way that Forge should be playing in the first round as national champions while Vancouver gets a completely undeserved bye

 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

But why? What did Vancouver do to earn their bye? They lost the one and only round they played in last year if memory serves. USL and NASL were both explicitly below MLS in a pyramid, and neither ever eliminated an MLS team. Neither of those things can be said about CPL.

USL and NASL teams regularly beat MLS teams.  For instance, last year Saint Louis FC beat Chicago Fire and FC Cincinnati and New Mexico United beat Colorado Rapids and FC Dallas.  Just like with the FA Cup, lower division teams beat top tier teams every year.

[IAmPappy]

I have to gloat a little bit. I called it on the regional ties. It makes sense from a travel and rivalry perspective. I got pretty much everything else wrong though 😐

On a related topic, going forward, why not give byes into the quarterfinals to the four teams that won the previous year’s quarterfinals? I mean, it should be a standalone competition regardless of your league or position in it. (It’s almost like a little bit of pro/rel inside the competition). Thoughts?

PS: I like this format. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by IAmPappy

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

USL and NASL teams regularly beat MLS teams.  For instance, last year Saint Louis FC beat Chicago Fire and FC Cincinnati and New Mexico United beat Colorado Rapids and FC Dallas.  Just like with the FA Cup, lower division teams beat top tier teams every year.

I know that, but I was talking about in the Voyageurs Cup. I just meant that although I didn’t really like Edmonton and Ottawa having to go through a play in round every year, it was easier to swallow because neither team ever eliminated an MLS team. Plus, comparisons of USL/NASL to MLS are not like for like when talking about CPL. CPL by official designation is the same tier as MLS in Canada, even though we know which one is better. I would rather this tournament use a draw or the results on the field to determine byes than looking at dollar figures and eye tests.

[Watchmen]

I think the one downside to this format is that if it's always set up on along "regional" lines, then TFC and Montreal will always be on the same side of the bracket.  I think you set everything up as it currently is, but draw for the semi-finals in the future.

[nfitz]

19 hours ago, Cblake said:

The biggest difference when comparing the 2018 Final vs Vancouver is that they had just over two weeks to sell that game. They were never going to make that mistake again. It was put back in the package last year. You have 6 months to sell the game in this scenario of playing both legs at BMO. 

It was back in the package in 2019 because the final was only Toronto FC's second Voyageurs Cup game. If TFC makes it to the final this year, it would be their third Voyageurs Cup game. And being in September, I'd assume that the 3 extra games in the package, will be the first 2 Voyageurs Cup game (July and August), and the first Leagues Cup game (which started in July in 2019).

Though they'd have a month to sell the final this time.

[Cblake]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:19 PM, nfitz said:

It was back in the package in 2019 because the final was only Toronto FC's second Voyageurs Cup game. If TFC makes it to the final this year, it would be their third Voyageurs Cup game. And being in September, I'd assume that the 3 extra games in the package, will be the first 2 Voyageurs Cup game (July and August), and the first Leagues Cup game (which started in July in 2019).

Though they'd have a month to sell the final this time.

So the question is for the MLSE braintrust, for the third game, do you include a game you know you are playing in the opening round of the League's Cup or one that you may make in the Cup Final? 

[Rocket Robin]

Do you think there's time for Ottawa to be pushed into the Voyageurs Cup for 2020 seeing as the draw has already been conducted?