2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[Watchmen]

On 6/14/2020 at 1:18 PM, RJB said:

Because now that I really think about it, the three MLS clubs now have two countries from which they can qualify for their continental competition.  If they don't qualify via the USA route, then they can try again in Canada.  Is there any precedent for this?

And what if they qualify in the US, and win the Voyageurs Cup?  Who gets Canada's berth then?

PLUS! If TFC, Impact, or Whitecaps win the MLS berth in the tournament, then would they be a Canadian entry in CCL, or an American one?  I'm not entirely sure that being defined as an American team is something they can really come back from... let's wait and see!

If a Canadian MLS team wins the tournament and then wins the Voyagers Cup, the likely scenario is that Canada's spot would go to the Voyagers Cup runner-up.  Apparently the CSA and US Soccer went to Concacaf and requested a special dispensation for one season only to allow for a Canadian MLS to potentially take an American spot.

[Blackdude]

41 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

If a Canadian MLS team wins the tournament and then wins the Voyagers Cup, the likely scenario is that Canada's spot would go to the Voyagers Cup runner-up.  Apparently the CSA and US Soccer went to Concacaf and requested a special dispensation for one season only to allow for a Canadian MLS to potentially take an American spot.

Is it the likely scenario? Or could it be that they'd get the Canadian spot and that an US team gets the US spot? I wouldn't be shocked that it's a way to make sure that the MLS champions will be in the CCL even if they don't win the V's Cup. I don't know which spot is prioritized and no one has heard anything from Canada Soccer on that.

[Watchmen]

13 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Is it the likely scenario? Or could it be that they'd get the Canadian spot and that an US team gets the US spot? I wouldn't be shocked that it's a way to make sure that the MLS champions will be in the CCL even if they don't win the V's Cup. I don't know which spot is prioritized and no one has heard anything from Canada Soccer on that.

No, the US wouldn't get the spot back.  From MLS:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/06/10/mls-back-tournament-winner-will-qualify-2021-scotiabank-concacaf-champions-league

"CCL berths for Canada-based clubs

Meanwhile, Canada could see two MLS representatives in the Champions League. In addition to the automatic berth that goes to the winner of the 2020 Canadian Championship, a Canadian club winning the MLS is Back Tournament will also clinch a spot in the Champions League. 

Should the same Canadian MLS club win both the MLS is Back Tournament and the Canadian Championship, then Canada Soccer will determine the qualification criteria for the second club."

I've only speculated that the CCL berth for Canada would go to the Voyagers Cup runner up, as that's the tournament normally used to determine the spot.

[Blackdude]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

No, the US wouldn't get the spot back.  From MLS:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/06/10/mls-back-tournament-winner-will-qualify-2021-scotiabank-concacaf-champions-league

"CCL berths for Canada-based clubs

Meanwhile, Canada could see two MLS representatives in the Champions League. In addition to the automatic berth that goes to the winner of the 2020 Canadian Championship, a Canadian club winning the MLS is Back Tournament will also clinch a spot in the Champions League. 

Should the same Canadian MLS club win both the MLS is Back Tournament and the Canadian Championship, then Canada Soccer will determine the qualification criteria for the second club."

I've only speculated that the CCL berth for Canada would go to the Voyagers Cup runner up, as that's the tournament normally used to determine the spot.

Thank you for this. I wonder if they would rather send the best MLS team not in or the V's Cup runner-up. I'd be shocked that they'd chose the CPL champions, but that might just be me. 

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, Blackdude said:

Thank you for this. I wonder if they would rather send the best MLS team not in or the V's Cup runner-up. I'd be shocked that they'd chose the CPL champions, but that might just be me. 

I don't see them choosing the CPL champion, but I don't see them limiting it to MLS teams only either.  The Voyagers Cup still gives all teams a chance at the spot, even if the most likely outcome is still likely an MLS team.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Big_M]

Canada Soccer announces 2020 Canadian Championship update

[Mikmacdo]

I'd like to see an extended format with group play if the MLS and cpl season will be do short. Maybe use BC place if it's late on the fall. 

 

[dnina10]

2 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

I'd like to see an extended format with group play if the MLS and cpl season will be do short. Maybe use BC place if it's late on the fall. 

 

I'd avoid that. Odd number of clubs, a prime number no less, meaning that there will be uneven groups. Never been a fan of that. A straight knockout tournament should work. It would be Forge, Cavalry and the MLS clubs in the quarter finals along with the other CPL clubs in the preliminary round

[Mikmacdo]

37 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

I'd avoid that. Odd number of clubs, a prime number no less, meaning that there will be uneven groups. Never been a fan of that. A straight knockout tournament should work. It would be Forge, Cavalry and the MLS clubs in the quarter finals along with the other CPL clubs in the preliminary round

Why forge? They went out in the first round last year. 

[dnina10]

21 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

Why forge? They went out in the first round last year. 

Let's see, defending CPL champions. Need I say more?

[Obinna]

16 hours ago, dnina10 said:

Let's see, defending CPL champions. Need I say more?

Yes you do. Last years Cup results should trump league results. 

[Obinna]

11. Ottawa (did not play 2019)

10. Pacific FC (first qualifying round 2019)

9. Valour (second qualifying round 2019)

8. FC Edmonton (second qualifying round 2019)

7. Forge (second qualifying round 2019)

6. HFX (third qualifying round 2019)

5. Vancouver (third qualifying round 2019)

4. York 9 (third qualifying round 2019)

3. Cavalry (semi final round 2019)

2. TFC ( final 2019)

1. Montreal (Champion 2019)

 

The rankings should look something like that based on last years cup results. 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Obinna

[Watchmen]

The rankings prior to Covid-19 outbreak had Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary seeded.  There's no reason to think that's changed.  If a team gets added to the seeded list, the only logical team is Forge.

I'd like the tournament to get to the point where it's a draw for each round, rather than predetermined matchups.  Onesoccer needs some content?  There's your live content.

[nfitz]

18 hours ago, Watchmen said:

There's no reason to think that's changed.  If a team gets added to the seeded list, the only logical team is Forge.

Surely everything has changed. Teams have been added. Teams have been removed. Timeframe has been moved. Tournament has been moved.

If anyone needs to be seeded (I'd simply go back to the older round-robin type thing, but with 2 groups of 4, and one group of 3, to give all teams more games), I'd give priority to the 2020 CPL Champions.

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, nfitz said:

Surely everything has changed. Teams have been added. Teams have been removed. Timeframe has been moved. Tournament has been moved.

If anyone needs to be seeded (I'd simply go back to the older round-robin type thing, but with 2 groups of 4, and one group of 3, to give all teams more games), I'd give priority to the 2020 CPL Champions.

I'm referencing more the post saying "the rankings should look like this based on last year's tournament".  That's clearly not how the CSA did their rankings for this year, and there's no reason to think that aspect has changed.  They gave Calgary a higher ranking over Forge.  If they go with the logical (and granted, this is the CSA so who knows) format of 6 teams in a preliminary round with three advancing to face the remaining 5 teams in the quarter-finals, then Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver/Calgary/Hamilton are the logical 5.

I would not anticipate them wanting the tournament to have more games.  They'll want to name a champion and keep the tournament active, while keeping costs down (since they'll have virtually no sources of income) and limiting the chances of the tournament being derailed by a Covid-19 outbreak on one of the teams. So if anything, I could see them having less.  Single-knockout tournament, since there's unlikely to be home-and-away games.  

[Blackdude]

To be fair, I still want to know what happens in MLS after the MLS is back tournament and what happens in CPL before even saying anything. If MLS is the only one league playing after that, I'd do a CPL 8 to get one in the final four and MLS will join. If both are only playing a short tournament, The MLS teams and the top 2 CPL teams (Cavalry and Forge) would get byes straight to the quarters while the other 6 CPL teams fight for their spot in the first round. 

As much as people want clubs to be based on their result. It's usually based on the league and it's always been. Even some years where the Impact were better than the Caps in 2010, but Whitecaps were seeded in 2011 due to MLS promotion. I don't see why CSA would change now. They'll put MLS 1 and CPL 2 and I do think that basing off league standings is a better idea than on a one-off cup match. 

[Shway]

Canadian MLS teams might be barred from playing/travelling to games outside of the country. There's also been reports about them playing against games each other - how much games could they play without it being overkill who know? 

My question would be, would you want to see an expanded tournament where there is group stage, that then leads to a knockout? 

If possible/feasible I definitely would want to see this happen. 

2 Groups - 6/5...everyone plays their group member once, top 2 from each group advance to the semi-finals two legged tie. 

(I openly want the Canadian MLS teams to leave the league.)

[Ansem]

Question is, can MLS team participate 

 After this

 

[Blizzard]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Question is, can MLS team participate 

 After this

 

In the Voyageur's Cup? Yes, a way will be found. The CCL berth is too prestigious to be given up on.

Why not the top MLS team vs the top CCL team, this year only. Could be a blast!

 

 

[SpursFlu]

I say east and west group stage

[narduch]

Rollins suggesting the format will look like this. I'm ok with this.

Edited August 1, 2020 by narduch

[Ansem]

Best CPL team in the finals with over 2 months straight of game having shed some rust...

I'm good with that too

[grande]

CPL League Cup? I'm into it.

[narduch]

Format confirmed.

CPL champ vs. Top MLS team in their mini series.