2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

The winner of the MLS series was announced Sept.17

CPL winner will be known Sept. 19

If they want neutral grounds to hold the game the following week, they won't have a location until then.

Yes the CSA knew the MLS schedule but it's also true in reverse, MLS knew as early as August how the Island games were going to be set up and that the CSA wanted their finals right after.

If they wanted true neutral ground, 4 CPL teams were eliminated a while ago. If they wanted an MLS venue that could potentially be neutral ground, they know the 3 locations. Nothing was stopping the CSA from just picking a venue and going with it. The finalists don't matter.

Yes, if the CSA had been planning the Cup final for right after the Island games then MLS would have known about it in in early August. And you know what MLS did about it? Not fucking announce the next round of games for the Canadian teams until mid-September. I realize there's always things happening behind the scenes, but I'm sorry. That's more than enough for the CSA to sort out the Cup final. 

[PaulV]

In a global pandemic where almost everyone in spectator sports is losing heaps of money, the stuff that pays the bills get prioritized and everything else gets put on the backburner, if not cancelled. No different from hockey's IIHF who just recently announced that all their youth tournaments are being cancelled except for the World Juniors (U-20) in Edmonton. Surprise, surprise, it's the cash cow that gets the TV money.

The MLS is just trying to pay the bills and satisfy the TV contracts with their regular season. The CPL is keeping in the public eye and generating content for Mediapro with the Island Games. Sad reality is that few people really care about the Canadian Championship and it pays the bills for no one. It will get played 'someday' but not at the expense of other games that actually do have a more tangible financial impact. Who knows if and when the CONCACAF tournaments will be played. International travel is not going to get easier for a while. In 2021, World Cup qualifying will probably be a priority along with once again, the domestic club seasons.

Makes no sense to be upset at people who are just trying to keep solvent and keep their leagues' head above water.

[Ansem]

26 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

If they wanted true neutral ground, 4 CPL teams were eliminated a while ago. If they wanted an MLS venue that could potentially be neutral ground, they know the 3 locations. Nothing was stopping the CSA from just picking a venue and going with it. The finalists don't matter.

 

FC Edmonton were eliminated on September 1st, Valour on the 5th, Ottawa on the 6th and York (stadium is under renovation)

So the soonest the CSA could have worked on a venue would be September 2nd if they wanted the game in Edmonton, or the 6th if they wanted Winnipeg or the 7th if they wanted Ottawa. We don't know if they were working on it or not or how talks/none talks went with MLS about the week following the Island Games

MLS announced their next set of games to be played in the US on the September 11th. I hope you realize that to get this done, this mean they were working on this at the very least a few weeks prior to that, end of August at the latest.

By the time you had your first Island Games elimination, despite what was told to MLS, they had already moved forward with their schedule with or without consulting the CSA

As @PaulV points out, MLS has its own priorities (revenues - TV -Sponsors). I'm adding that even if the CSA put its foot down and had a location & time locked down for the finals, MLS are under no obligation to comply. That's the reality of having our clubs in another association's league - they don't answer to the CSA

 

45 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I realize there's always things happening behind the scenes, but I'm sorry. That's more than enough for the CSA to sort out the Cup final. 

And again, even if the CSA said on September 2nd "Clarke Stadium - Edmonton" on September 23, guess what, as early as end of August, MLS had already decided to have the Canadian clubs move to the US in time for their first game starting on the same day as the CPL Finals.

@PaulV brought a good point, parties are looking to pay their bills and fulfill their obligations first - that's an excellent point.

My issue is playing in the winter - F no. Move it to spring when all the squads will be complete and will have been active

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

FC Edmonton were eliminated on September 1st, Valour on the 5th, Ottawa on the 6th and York (stadium is under renovation)

So the soonest the CSA could have worked on a venue would be September 2nd if they wanted the game in Edmonton, or the 6th if they wanted Winnipeg or the 7th if they wanted Ottawa. 

Those are the dates if you want a guaranteed "true neutral" game.  But nothing would have stopped them working on a venue earlier.

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

We don't know if they were working on it or not or how talks/none talks went with MLS about the week following the Island Games

Right.  We don't know if they were working on talks.  But it's their job to be working on talks, and they didn't get anything done.  You've blamed MLS for this.

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

And again, even if the CSA said on September 2nd "Clarke Stadium - Edmonton" on September 23, guess what, as early as end of August, MLS had already decided to have the Canadian clubs move to the US in time for their first game starting on the same day as the CPL Finals.

You've repeatedly said the CSA has known for months they wanted to hold the Voyagers Cup after the Island Games.  We've even all agreed with this point.  So guess what?  If the CSA had come out and said "Voyagers Cup - September 23 - venue to be determined", then everyone knows when it is.  MLS builds around that.  Not a big deal.

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

My issue is playing in the winter - F no. Move it to spring when all the squads will be complete and will have been active

This would be a decision made by the CSA, and you should be blaming them.  If you think the MLS teams are determining the schedule and setting the game in December/January, well then that's also the fault of the CSA and you should be blaming them. 

[Ansem]

48 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

So guess what?  If the CSA had come out and said "Voyagers Cup - September 23 - venue to be determined", then everyone knows when it is.  MLS builds around that.  Not a big deal.

How sure are you that MLS would build around it? They don't answer to the CSA, they do what's in their interest first and foremost, especially in COVID time. 

They can be accommodating but don't have to comply and clearly, they weren't accommodating this time.

51 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

This would be a decision made by the CSA, and you should be blaming them.  If you think the MLS teams are determining the schedule and setting the game in December/January, well then that's also the fault of the CSA and you should be blaming them. 

That I agree with. I didn't like Manning's comment but the CSA has last say, not him. I was just saying that in my opinion, I think he's lying when he's implying that the plan was to play the game after the MLS season all along in the middle of winter. Yes, I called BS on that.

It's up to the CSA to have the final when it makes sense for both parties, winter ain't it.

 

[longlugan]

In the end the CSA should have been more firm with setting a date once both leagues' schedules were announced. Oh and yes...Bill Manning is still an utter douchebag . This from a former TFC season ticket holder and now Forge FC season ticket holder😁

[Cblake]

On 9/18/2020 at 12:46 PM, Ansem said:

Stephen Hart on The Canadian Championship

 

 

The MLS Cup was played in December here in Toronto. The 2016 edition was cold as fuck, I could not feel my body by the end, even all bundled up. 

[nfitz]

On 9/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Ansem said:

New restrictions have been announced

I think we all know that ... but I said for the entire province. This was only for Toronto, Peel and Ottawa. Though earlier today they were extended to the rest of the province. Also these new restrictions aren't related to playing matches in empty stadiums - even in Toronto.

Or cinemas for example. My gosh, if you are so wrong about this, I assume everything else you say is equally as wrong? 🤣🤣

 

On 9/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Ansem said:

It doesn't specify if sporting events will be exempt yet

That is not true - games are continuing in the GTA today. And also irrelevant, as CSA hasn't even scheduled this yet.

 

On 9/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Ansem said:

That's a massive contradiction to the CSA intentions of having the game played after the CPL finals. Hard to believe that the CSA would willingly want that game in the middle of winter...in Canada

Much of what CSA does has me scratching my head.

 

On 9/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Ansem said:

MLS doesn't have to comply.

If CSA desanctions MLS, then MLS would have to either move the Canadian teams to the USA, or face FIFA/CONCACAF's wrath (which can usually be solved with a large cash payment).

But I doubt CSA has the balls.

Bottom line, is that CSA knows which side of their bread is buttered, and is going to schedule a match with what the media describes as a development league, in discussions with others. I'm unaware enough to think otherwise!

I don't really see the big deal - both teams will have availability sometime in December or early January. Perhaps earlier if they play in Hartford. It's not like Hamilton is going to be disbanding anytime soon, with the Concacaf League commitments.

Edited September 19, 2020 by nfitz

[Ratdog224]

Just announced during the TFC vs DC game the Voyageurs Cup final will take place after TFC MLS season has ended  

[nfitz]

23 minutes ago, Ratdog224 said:

Just announced during the TFC vs DC game the Voyageurs Cup final will take place after TFC MLS season has ended  

Announced, as in that's what they are hearing from staff with TFC - not official ... but no reason to doubt.

Edited September 20, 2020 by nfitz

[Ansem]

The spring option is still on the table. Nothing official yet

 

[Stryker911]

I get it isn't ideal, but the best solution has to be to have Forge go down to Hartford and play Toronto down there. They could play Oct. 1. It really seems like the best option for both teams as well as the tournament.

[narduch]

33 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I get it isn't ideal, but the best solution has to be to have Forge go down to Hartford and play Toronto down there. They could play Oct. 1. It really seems like the best option for both teams as well as the tournament.

Agreed.

Its going to be closed doors anyways. It can be played anywhere.

[Shway]

I have a fair idea, hear this out.

Since TFC wants the game played after their MLS season, which is a disadvantage to the Forge. 

When this game is played, the Voyageurs cup rules should be changed to reflect the CPL game rules whereas 6 Canadians instead of 3 must start the game or even go as far as must be on the field for the entire game.

I would love to see this!

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Shway

[RS]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

I have a fair idea, here this out.

Since TFC wants the game played after their MLS season, which is a disadvantage to the Forge. 

When this game is played, the Voyageurs cup rules should be changed to reflect the CPL game rules whereas 6 Canadians instead of 3 must start the game or even go as far as must be on the field for the entire game.

I would love to see this!

 

Putting aside the fact that you're advocating for the tournament rules to be changed simply out of spite, the current CPL rule would include players like Akinola (Canadian citizen), Bradley and Ciman (permanent residents) and wouldn't be too tough for TFC to match.

The actual V Cup rule of three Canadian-eligible players in the starting XI is actually stricter than CPL's rule because it only looks at players in pure soccer terms instead of the legal definitions of who's allowed to work in the country. Whether it's enough is up for debate, but that's not the spirit of this conversation.

[Shway]

On 9/20/2020 at 1:49 PM, RS said:

Putting aside the fact that you're advocating for the tournament rules to be changed simply out of spite, the current CPL rule would include players like Akinola (Canadian citizen), Bradley and Ciman (permanent residents) and wouldn't be too tough for TFC to match.

The actual V Cup rule of three Canadian-eligible players in the starting XI is actually stricter than CPL's rule because it only looks at players in pure soccer terms instead of the legal definitions of who's allowed to work in the country. Whether it's enough is up for debate, but that's not the spirit of this conversation.

Yea I’m a fan of TFC, so it’s not out of spite. Moreso out of TFC barely playing Canadians, and keeping the competition as fair as can be while trying to maintain its “Canadianess”. 

I truly just want to see how TFCs Canadian players fair against the Forge (make it interesting) so I guess I should’ve said 6 Canadian-eligible players in the starting lineup. 

Laryea-Mavinga-Gonzalez-Auro
————Fraser—Osorio——
—Nelson-Pozuelo-Shaffelburg 
——————Akinola—————

This lineup would be interesting to see against the Forge. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Shway

[Ivan]

Who is Gomez?

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Ivan said:

Who is Gomez?

I was trying to figure that out too. I think he probably meant Omar Gonzalez.

[Ruffian]

19 hours ago, Shway said:

Yea I’m a fan of TFC, so it’s not out of spite. Moreso out of TFC barely playing Canadians, and keeping the competition as fair as can be while trying to maintain its “Canadianess”. 

I don't know why CSA doesn't revert the Canadian rules of MLS back to how it was in the first years of TFC in MLS. They were higher then and I assume got changed because of TFC management arguing that the Canadian player pool was too shallow and hurt their competitiveness. The Canadian pool has changed drastically now and these Canadian requirements should be able to be changed back to what they originally were.

[SpursFlu]

Why not just play the game indoors 

[Ansem]

Looks like Forge may have a solution to prepare for TFC...under the circumstances. IF it wasn't for COVID, flying in stronger teams would be a great way to prepare them. This will have to do

 

[nfitz]

On 9/21/2020 at 9:50 AM, Ruffian said:

I don't know why CSA doesn't revert the Canadian rules of MLS back to how it was in the first years of TFC in MLS. They were higher then and I assume got changed because of TFC management arguing that the Canadian player pool was too shallow and hurt their competitiveness. The Canadian pool has changed drastically now and these Canadian requirements should be able to be changed back to what they originally were.

Back to where they were when there was only one fully-professional team in Canada rather than 11?

Perhaps other things have changed as well ...

[narduch]

Really do think Forge has a chance to win this. Especially if TFC pulls a performance like yesterday 

[narduch]

MLS announced its playoff schedule. The finals are set for Dec. 12.

The Voyageurs Cup would have to be after that date.

Forge's next Concacaf League match has not been scheduled yet. 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by narduch

[SpursFlu]

There must be a large indoor complex in the gta that can host the finals. Those indoor fields are popular out there aren't they? I've only ever been in a bubble full field out here in BC but there must be an actual large structure in Ontario that can host this game