Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty

[canuckgbp]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Rutty is fine where he is. The kid is 18 years old and can play in multiple spots. There is no need for him to be loaned out.

Kosi is more debatable, but at the end of the day he's a midfielder too. It's not as if it's RB or bust for either player.

Does JMR fit within this team though? Not sure BB 4-3-3 is a great spot for him. He seems more methodical, more of a CAM. Doesn't seem to have great speed for outside play. 

One thing I have noticed, JMR doesn't seem to be the same since he was injured. It is like he isn't going 100%. A good offseason may be exactly what he needs. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Does JMR fit within this team though? Not sure BB 4-3-3 is a great spot for him. He seems more methodical, more of a CAM. Doesn't seem to have great speed for outside play. 

One thing I have noticed, JMR doesn't seem to be the same since he was injured. It is like he isn't going 100%. A good offseason may be exactly what he needs. 

I think he has the attributes to play in a midfield 3. 

[El Diego]

I have a sneaking suspicion that TFC saw the success of Davies and said to themselves, if we make JMR a fullback we can market him as the "next Davies" when selling him off. I have no proof of this, just crossed my mind.

[canuckgbp]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think he has the attributes to play in a midfield 3. 

I hope so. I am not sure BB thinks that though. He has grown but still looks thin. Another offseason might be exactly what he needs. Beef up. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, El Diego said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that TFC saw the success of Davies and said to themselves, if we make JMR a fullback we can market him as the "next Davies" when selling him off. I have no proof of this, just crossed my mind.

Was my immediate thought on day 1 of the 2022 season.

[canuckgbp]

Barring the injury, he may have been primed to move for $$$, 

[El Diego]

47 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

I hope so. I am not sure BB thinks that though. He has grown but still looks thin. Another offseason might be exactly what he needs. Beef up. 

He turned Nelson into a centre mid. Hopefully he can think outside the box for JMR. He was always a clever combiner so a central position makes sense, but he was also a good crosser at youth level serving up goals on a plate for Mbongue.

[Vasi]

2 hours ago, El Diego said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that TFC saw the success of Davies and said to themselves, if we make JMR a fullback we can market him as the "next Davies" when selling him off. I have no proof of this, just crossed my mind.

It's not TFC that through of that comparison. It was Liverpool and the other Euro clubs that saw that as a position for him. I remember reading this last winter during his training sessions abroad. 

So TFC has him there now. I think this is a money decision. Wont work because he does not have the speed necessary to play like Davies. 

IMHO he is a classic midfield conductor. Has the skillset to be a geat one for Canada. But this right back  BS makes no sense to me. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Vasi

[TOcanadafan]

The sooner he can get out of TFC the better… playing in an academy setting in Europe would be better for his development than rotting on the bench here.  TFC is trying to buy their way to MLS prosperity again and youth will no longer get a chance.

[Kadenge]

btw, I thought JMR had a solid game vs NE. He was steady and played it safe. Was definitely an improvement over Kosi who I still think has lots of potential. I just think Kosi was not ready to play as many minutes as he got. He started the season strong but his play declined over time. 

[Ruud]

Yeah he’s just missing the speed and breakout quotient needed 

[jordan]

Appeared in the arsenal all for nothing 

 

[Dominic94]

From this winter 

[Infernal]

How worried are we about JMR's development at the moment?

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Infernal said:

How worried are we about JMR's development at the moment?

Zero?

[dyslexic nam]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Zero?

Not sure.  At one point he was a 16 yr old wonderkid being (supposedly) pursued by some of the bigger clubs in the world.  Now he is an 18 yr old who is getting respectable sub minutes in MLS but may increasingly be relegated to the bench (or even off the game sheet) given the number of additions to the TFC squad.  For me, the level of worry will be inversely proportional to the amount of playing time he ultimately gets this year because he is in the prime developmental period and he needs to be playing regular minutes to fulfill his potential.  I know it is early days but the way TFC has loaded up on veteran players has me a bit concerned that he will be fighting for scraps.  

You can clearly see Nelson’s jump in quality over the course of recent months and I attribute much of it to the time he is getting on the pitch with the first team - very often as a starter.  And while I recognize that JMR is younger (by almost 2 years!) I really do hope he finds himself in a situation where he is playing week in and week out - whether at TFC or elsewhere.  Right now he is probably too good to be playing at TFC2, but I worry about him cracking the lineup of an increasingly crowded TFC roster.  

[YorkRegionFan]

I think we have to look at Bob Bradley's track record.  At LAFC, he was willing to give minutes to young players.  As TD and coach, he knows he needs to break in new players, unlike Greg Vanney, Chris Armas/JavierPerez.  There are 10 games left, JMR and the other young players will have substitute minutes.  Probably next year, when Richie Layrea potentially leaves, he will have a chance to get more minutes.

[VinceA]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Zero?

eh for me it seems they still don't know what to do with him and what his best position is.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Zero?

I'm more "worried" than you are, probably, because the transfer rumors have seemingly dried up (who knows what goes on behind the scenes), he's not playing much, so on, but I think this is just the reality of how following players for future potential clashes with the reality of soccer which is that teams are built to win games. Young players need reps to improve, but teams need veterans to win games, and TFC needs to win games, which is why instead of fielding all of their canadian kids, they're playing half of the italian national team. I think if players are good enough, they'll eventually make a move, and I expect JMR to do that eventually, but whether it's Liverpool at 18 or Club Brugge at 21, if he's good enough to ultimately play for the best clubs in the world, he will. 

There's also the question of what exactly people expect to happen when that transfer happens. Liverpool would not be giving JMR minutes for the next few seasons, so is riding the bench, with minutes, for TFC that much worse than the league one loan he'd probably get the second he signs his EPL contract? We spent to much time talking about Marcelo Flores, the supposed crown jewel of the Mexican MNT, and yet he is currently out on loan to a mid table spanish second div team, and at least in the preseason, he's not even starting. It's great for his development that Arsenal are keeping their eye on him, but the experience he's getting playing for real oviedo that much better than JMR's playing for TFC?

[narduch]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not sure.  At one point he was a 16 yr old wonderkid being (supposedly) pursued by some of the bigger clubs in the world.  Now he is an 18 yr old who is getting respectable sub minutes in MLS but may increasingly be relegated to the bench (or even off the game sheet) given the number of additions to the TFC squad.  For me, the level of worry will be inversely proportional to the amount of playing time he ultimately gets this year because he is in the prime developmental period and he needs to be playing regular minutes to fulfill his potential.  I know it is early days but the way TFC has loaded up on veteran players has me a bit concerned that he will be fighting for scraps.  

You can clearly see Nelson’s jump in quality over the course of recent months and I attribute much of it to the time he is getting on the pitch with the first team - very often as a starter.  And while I recognize that JMR is younger (by almost 2 years!) I really do hope he finds himself in a situation where he is playing week in and week out - whether at TFC or elsewhere.  Right now he is probably too good to be playing at TFC2, but I worry about him cracking the lineup of an increasingly crowded TFC roster.  

I'm worried he will be another victim of the TFC Academy prospect churn 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not sure.  At one point he was a 16 yr old wonderkid being (supposedly) pursued by some of the bigger clubs in the world.  Now he is an 18 yr old who is getting respectable sub minutes in MLS but may increasingly be relegated to the bench (or even off the game sheet) given the number of additions to the TFC squad.  For me, the level of worry will be inversely proportional to the amount of playing time he ultimately gets this year because he is in the prime developmental period and he needs to be playing regular minutes to fulfill his potential.  I know it is early days but the way TFC has loaded up on veteran players has me a bit concerned that he will be fighting for scraps.  

Rutty was and is a very good prospect for Canada, but getting respectable sub minutes in MLS is right about on schedule in my opinion. Rutty was trumpeted as a top 5 prospect in North America for his age cohort, but he was not one of the best prospects in the world, which is where Alphonso Davies or Giovanni Reyna arguably were four and two years ago, respectively. I always felt the hype around Rutty coming out of TFC and/or Canadian fandom and/or punditry was way overblown.

All of that said, he should and will become a core player for us, he was just never the Alphonso Davies 2.0 that TFC had some of us believe. Therefore, I don't judge his development relative to such a player. I expected him to be exactly where he is at now, more or less. The injury derailed things a bit, and the stars have came in and pushed him down, and he's been tried in different positions, but all of this is okay and I nothing I am worried about. All part of the process.

37 minutes ago, VinceA said:

eh for me it seems they still don't know what to do with him and what his best position is.

My take on this is that Rutty is a very good young player and they are trying to find ways to get him in the line up. When he was first debuted at right back, I thought okay this is planning for when Insigne comes in, because we want this kid in the team, somewhere, so let's get him up to speed at RB, a position we think he can play. Davies playing fullback at Vancouver was purely about rounding out his development, but I think Rutty playing fullback was and is primarily about ensuring he gets minutes in the team.

That said, there was a chance to bring back Laryea and the chance to make a play off push and if you are TFC you are going to take it. Rutty is a nice player with a bright future, but he's not playing before Insigne or Laryea, so he'll watch and learn and train with these guys, and BB will try and keep his development moving by finding ways to get him in the team. I said this before, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get chances in the midfield 3. There is a log jam there with Osorio, Kaye, Bradley (not really a factor in this I suppose) and Nelson, but if I were BB I would be thinking about Rutty in this role. If he can get spot minutes at RB, CM and as a winger, that is fine for the remainder of the season.

For all we know 2023 will see him playing +2500 minutes as the starting RB in a dominant TFC team that goes on to win multiple trophies, then Toronto move him onto a European side where he'll continue his journey. 

39 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

It's great for his development that Arsenal are keeping their eye on him, but the experience he's getting playing for real oviedo that much better than JMR's playing for TFC?

This is exactly right and why I am not worried. MLS is a good level in general, and TFC are (finally) a strong team again in particular, at least on paper. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact he's now playing in the same club with two current Italian internationals, a former Italian international, and the 3 of them have something like 120 caps between them. Flores isn't playing with such players at Real Oviedo (not saying that's bad for him, but just saying). And this is not to mention Kaye and Osorio and Henry and Laryea, all core national team players headed to Qatar shortly. And we can't forget the former USMNT captain, Michael Bradley. There is such a wealth of talent and experience now in this Toronto side that we really should be factoring that into the narrative of Rutty's minutes or lack thereof. If he were in this exact same position with a European side that had the level of players TFC had, would we express an equal amount of worry? Something tells me we wouldn't...

[Ivan]

Let's also not forget that he missed two months with an injury and only returned a few weeks ago.

[Dominic94]

Laryea taking up his time as TFC try to contend….

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Laryea taking up his time as TFC try to contend….

Not a good sign when a manager makes only 2 subs

[Kent]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:46 PM, narduch said:

Not a good sign when a manager makes only 2 subs

Especially in the middle of a stretch of 3 games in 8 days.