Ottawa CPL Club

[Ansem]

 

 No answer from FuryForce, that's the type of statement/question they dodge like the plague.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The CSA decided that the Fury could play in USL when they sanctioned them for that league back in 2017 rather than telling them to wait for CanPL. There is no obvious basis under FIFA regulations for treating the playing out rights of the Fury differently from those of the three MLS teams. All four have been grandfathered in.

[BuzzAndSting]

20 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There is no obvious basis under FIFA regulations for treating the playing out rights of the Fury differently from those of the three MLS teams. All four have been grandfathered in.

Yes there is. You know what it is whether you want to admit it or not.

[BuzzAndSting]

48 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

 No answer from FuryForce, that's the type of statement/question they dodge like the plague.

He has replied now. I don't know how to link multiple individual tweets from one thread but it's nothing of consequence.

I like how KL is now calling out Ivory's bullshit.

[BuzzAndSting]

The reality remains however, if what Larson implies is true and CONCACAF and/or FIFA determine that OFFC must move to the CPL the most likely outcome in my opinion is that the club ceases operations. Imagine the outrage at that point.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, BuzzAndSting said:

He has replied now. I don't know how to link multiple individual tweets from one thread but it's nothing of consequence.

I like how KL is now calling out Ivory's ********.

Yeah, he's talking about a "process" and things being done in "phases" and implying that the CSA supporting it is enough for the Fury. Have they not read the FIFA Statute clearly stating that ALL parties must agree?

It's so dishonest of them to give half ass answers to their fans who clearly rely on them for information. They deserve to be told the true

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

The reality remains however, if what Larson implies is true and CONCACAF and/or FIFA determine that OFFC must move to the CPL the most likely outcome in my opinion is that the club ceases operations. Imagine the outrage at that point.

The governing bodies are saying CPL invalidates the USL sanction as it views it as an equivalent.

The most "logical" move is to go to CPL however, all they are truly saying is that you must play in Canada. Unless MLS & Don Garber is willing to welcome Ottawa, they are free to join L1O, or any "non-sanctioned" league they want. If they close shop, that's on them and they have only themselves to blame for that.

[Cheeta]

Have to keep in mind this whole issue of cross border leagues may be a Hell of a lot bigger than USL and the Ottawa Fury.  If it is no one who matters really cares what happens in Ottawa after sanctioning is denied.  FIFA Has bigger fish to fry.

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The governing bodies are saying CPL invalidates the USL sanction as it views it as an equivalent.

The most "logical" move is to go to CPL however, all they are truly saying is that you must play in Canada. Unless MLS & Don Garber is willing to welcome Ottawa, they are free to join L1O, or any "non-sanctioned" league they want. If they close shop, that's on them and they have only themselves to blame for that.

Exactly, people assume OSEG wishes to run the club regardless of where they choose/are forced to play, I don't believe that's the case.

[Ansem]

Just now, Cheeta said:

Have to keep in mind this whole issue of cross border leagues may be a Hell of a lot bigger than USL and the Ottawa Fury.  If it is no one who matters really cares what happens in Ottawa after sanctioning is denied.  FIFA Has bigger fish to fry.

Ottawa challenging Article 73 of FIFA Statute is forcing CONCACAF and FIFA's hand to enforce it.

If they let the Fury go unchecked, how long will it take for FIFA to be swamped with clubs with much more influence & power to demand the same privilege that the Fury are trying to give themselves? You'd get Super-leagues, clubs wanting to play in other leagues requests popping all over the place, which is something FIFA is clearly against.

Yes, this is bigger than little Ottawa and USL. They have no choice but to enforce the rule and it's ridiculous & childish of the Fury to go public and declare their intentions of staying in USL in 2020. It's like they haven't learned anything and they are acting in contempt of the rules.

They were warned by CONCACAF not to declare such thing before getting a sanction...they are doing it again. Hard to see FIFA let that fly again

[ted]

20 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

The vast majority of people in existing CanPL markets aren't going to games because they're playing Valour or York9 this week, they're going because they are fans of the sport or want something to do. I'm sorry, the number of people in the stands that want to beat Pacific FC because they want to antagonize left coasters is approximately six to 12. 

You have an odd idea about what constitutes "natural rivalries" and it's effect on attendance.

When rivalries between teams develop naturally - spontaneously, from actions on the field interacting with fans in the stands - they can boost attendance as word of mouth spreads. It's not a quick process or automatic because of geographic proximity, but derbies do provide a basis for many good rivalries because supporters can travel in bigger numbers. This adds to the atmosphere around and at the game which can have a positive effect on attendance.

 

41 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The CSA decided that the Fury could play in USL when they sanctioned them for that league back in 2017...All four have been grandfathered in.

I love the way you leave out the FACT that the Fury's waiver was granted for another year because the league wasn't playing that year.

There is no "Grandfather Clause" in FIFA rules. There is no legal requirement for the CSA, CONCACAF or FIFA to renew their EXEMPTION to the rules.

Of course you know that as this has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

I pointed this stuff out twice previously over the last year when the usual suspects on here were confidently stating that first the CSA and then CONCACAF would block the Fury from playing in the USL in 2019. End result was the Fury played in the USL.

[ted]

1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I pointed this stuff out twice previously over the last year when the usual suspects on here were confidently stating that first the CSA and then CONCACAF would block the Fury from playing in the USL in 2019. End result was the Fury played in the USL.

And NOTHING about that gives them ANY right to a continuation next year. They were granted another one-year exemption to the rules. They were NOT granted a permanent exemption.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Playing out rights are always done year by year even for the three MLS teams.

[ray]

So, where does the CSA stand on this?  They could end the uncertainty and refuse to sanction the Fury but have chosen not to get involved.  The CSA should be helping the CPL establish itself in Ottawa, either with the Fury joining the CPL or preparing the way for a new CPL club to be established in the nation's capital.  Standing on the sidelines to see what happens with CONCACAF seems like abdication of responsibility for their jurisdiction.  Don't understand it.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, ray said:

So, where does the CSA stand on this?  They could end the uncertainty and refuse to sanction the Fury but have chosen not to get involved. 

According to FIFA Statute, the CSA position is insufficient in the greater scheme of things. They could agree to sanction the Fury but FIFA and CONCACAF can override it at any time

3 minutes ago, ray said:

The CSA should be helping the CPL establish itself in Ottawa, either with the Fury joining the CPL or preparing the way for a new CPL club to be established in the nation's capital.

Our current president doesn't strike me as a soccer guy, I could be wrong

4 minutes ago, ray said:

Standing on the sidelines to see what happens with CONCACAF seems like abdication of responsibility for their jurisdiction.  Don't understand it.

In this case, as stated by CONCACAF last year, FIFA's seal of approval is ultimately required with CONCACAF having a huge influence on how things will go and they made their position clear last year, they don't support the Fury being in USL

[BuzzAndSting]

15 minutes ago, ray said:

The CSA should be helping the CPL establish itself in Ottawa, either with the Fury joining the CPL or preparing the way for a new CPL club to be established in the nation's capital.  Standing on the sidelines to see what happens with CONCACAF seems like abdication of responsibility for their jurisdiction.  Don't understand it.

I don't think it is, or should be the governing association to facilitate the operations of a privately held league.

[ray]

^ Fair enough @Ansem.  I just think this could have been settled sooner and in a clear-cut manner had the CSA taken charge and said "one and only one" more year of sanctioning once CPL is established.  Presumably that would have been enough for USL/USSF to tell the Fury they had to go.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, ray said:

^ Fair enough @Ansem.  I just think this could have been settled sooner and in a clear-cut manner had the CSA taken charge and said "one and only one" more year of sanctioning once CPL is established.  Presumably that would have been enough for USL/USSF to tell the Fury they had to go.

I think the Fury would have challenged the CSA regardless as they aren't backing down from CONCACAF. It's unfortunate, really as there was no need for the Fury to handle this situation the way they chose to do. Anyone including me understands the "why" they preferred to stay in USL for now. I just strongly disagree with the "How" they choose to manage this.

[dyslexic nam]

9 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

The reality remains however, if what Larson implies is true and CONCACAF and/or FIFA determine that OFFC must move to the CPL the most likely outcome in my opinion is that the club ceases operations. Imagine the outrage at that point.

I wouldn’t be outraged. I would be disappointed by the Fury front office and feel bad for Ottawa-based fans in the short term, but if OSEG is that adamant that they will not join CPL then I believe this would still be a good long term outcome. I am confident that a CPL club will established in Ottawa. If that will never be the Fury because OSEG simply isn’t interested, the current team’s demise would be a pretty necessary part of the process.  

[m-g-williams]

9 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I wouldn’t be outraged. I would be disappointed by the Fury front office and feel bad for Ottawa-based fans in the short term, but if OSEG is that adamant that they will not join CPL then I believe this would still be a good long term outcome. I am confident that a CPL club will established in Ottawa. If that will never be the Fury because OSEG simply isn’t interested, the current team’s demise would be a pretty necessary part of the process.  

Sad, but true. 

[The Real Marc]

9 hours ago, ted said:

You have an odd idea about what constitutes "natural rivalries" and it's effect on attendance.

When rivalries between teams develop naturally - spontaneously, from actions on the field interacting with fans in the stands - they can boost attendance as word of mouth spreads. It's not a quick process or automatic because of geographic proximity, but derbies do provide a basis for many good rivalries because supporters can travel in bigger numbers. This adds to the atmosphere around and at the game which can have a positive effect on attendance.

Tell that to the poster I was responding to because he was saying that there are existing natural rivalries in the CanPL that would boost attendance for an Ottawa CanPL club vs Ottawa USL club!  It's dream time in this forum sometimes.  Put aside our fandom for a minute here and we can all admit that CanPL rivalries are completely non-existent outside of Cal:Edm because there's only a grand total of seven teams playing each other 4-5 times and they haven't had time to develop and there is minimal geographic proximity, which all posters responding have admitted is definite catalyst. The rivalries that a sportsfan in a big eastern city like Ottawa has with large eastern Canadian and US cities exist because, as you state, they have been built up over time through the histories of other sports and personal interaction with these cities. More people at a York 9 game will have a relationship with or feeling toward Buffalo or Boston than they will with Winnipeg or Victoria. And the reality is that Victoria is going to draw 2700something for a midweek game in their absolutely wonderful stadium whether they're playing Ottawa Fury or the Moose Jaw Maniacs. (And, just to add, the "it takes time" argument is one that favours Ottawa staying in USL to maintain their rivalry development process with the teams they've played against for the last two years, plus some of their former NASL peeps. Sheesh!) I mean, I love this league. I've waited 30 years for this. But it's been half a season - not ten!

Edited August 1, 2019 by The Real Marc

[baulderdash77]

Where possible it’s really necessary for Canadian teams to play in Canadian leagues.  For the MLS teams, fine stay there as long as you like but for all levels if there’s a Canadian League they should be in it.

For me that includes USL Championship, League 1 and PDL.

So Fury to CPL

Toronto FC 2 to L1O

TSS Rovers and Victoria Highlanders to L1BC when it starts.

The other PDL teams can stay.  Seeing how things are developing, I’m just not interested in excuses and exceptions anymore.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 hours ago, ray said:

^ Fair enough @Ansem.  I just think this could have been settled sooner and in a clear-cut manner had the CSA taken charge and said "one and only one" more year of sanctioning once CPL is established.  Presumably that would have been enough for USL/USSF to tell the Fury they had to go.

The more obvious posture would have been you can only play in USL until CanPL starts and I seem to remember that Duane Rollins was claiming that was what had happened with their sanctioning back in late 2016.

[The Real Marc]

16 hours ago, ray said:

So, where does the CSA stand on this?  They could end the uncertainty and refuse to sanction the Fury but have chosen not to get involved.  The CSA should be helping the CPL establish itself in Ottawa, either with the Fury joining the CPL or preparing the way for a new CPL club to be established in the nation's capital.  Standing on the sidelines to see what happens with CONCACAF seems like abdication of responsibility for their jurisdiction.  Don't understand it.

This is total speculation but I wonder if OSEG has indicated to the CSA that they’d rather fold than go to CPL and the CSA is reluctant to push one of our few pro teams over the cliff via sanctioning - particularly if they’re not prepared to do the same to TFC 2 et al. Does OSEG control the stadium even without Fury as a tenant? Can a CPL team play there if the Fury fold?

Edited August 1, 2019 by The Real Marc