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Ottawa CPL Club

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Posted (edited)

 

13 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

OSEG built and operates Lansdowne which includes TD Place, both the field where the RedBlacks and Fury play, the stadium where the 67s play and the retail/office space around the two. The land and stadiums belong to the city but OSEG has exclusive rights to operate both for 20+ years (can't remember the exact deal and how many years left, it was either 25 or 30 when signed). Essentially they control the facilities and land as if they owned it. They choose tenants and lease rates, hold festivals and exhibitions, etc... 

OSEG also owns the RedBlacks, 67s and Fury, who are probably prioritized in that order. So if they decide to sell the Fury what would they sell? All of the assets "owned" by the Fury are probably actually owned by a limited liability partnership controlled by OSEG. Same with the brand and of all it's marks, the contract obligations, whether that's players or technical staff and anything related to the soccer operations. All front office and stadium operations staff are either OSEG staff or under the employee of a contractor like Levy.

So what has value? The brand has some value but honestly very little, especially if the club isn't operating at TD Place and purchase of the Fury does not guarantee a lease at TD Place, that would have to be negotiated. All assets and equipment probably wouldn't amount to more than 6 figures. Contracts of players and staff have no value because a new owner would probably want to renegotiate those.

The only thing that seemingly has any value is the USL franchise but that's basically worthless in Canada because of the issues with CONCACAF. Therefore the only potential buyers would be US based which then means everything else, like the brand, have no value.

If I were interested in operating a team in Ottawa at TD Place, I would just wait out the Fury's death and then try to negotiate a lease. Or I'd look to build my own facility elsewhere. Either way I wouldn't be interested in buying the Fury.

I think we are saying the same thing

Edited by An Observer

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On 5/17/2019 at 10:51 AM, dyslexic nam said:

The justification has been mentioned many, many times. 

The Fury play in a league that is reasonably comparable to CPL.  By most indications, budgets, player skill level, attendance levels, etc., are comparable.  Thus there is no "exceptional circumstance" that could be cited to justify the continued participation in USL.

The 3 Canadian MLS teams do not play in a league that is reasonably comparable to CPL.  The budgets are categorically different, the level of play is a significant step higher at present, the attendance levels are higher, and the level of investment is substantially higher.  Thus you can easily make the argument that "exceptional circumstances" still apply and justify their continued participation in USL.

From what I have seen, there isn't anything in the regulations about "exceptional circumstances" that says anything about comparable leagues. If the size of budgets, attendance levels, and level of play were important, then many European leagues would have 1-3 teams that would meet that criteria of exceptional circumstances. Yes I know that the regulations in those countries are likely different from the regulations here, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it's not exactly unheard of to have imbalances among those criteria within a league.

Maaaybe those things can constitute "exceptional circumstances", or maybe they are only looking at the availability of a league that would welcome the team. We don't know.

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6 minutes ago, Kent said:

From what I have seen, there isn't anything in the regulations about "exceptional circumstances" that says anything about comparable leagues. If the size of budgets, attendance levels, and level of play were important, then many European leagues would have 1-3 teams that would meet that criteria of exceptional circumstances. Yes I know that the regulations in those countries are likely different from the regulations here, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it's not exactly unheard of to have imbalances among those criteria within a league.

Maaaybe those things can constitute "exceptional circumstances", or maybe they are only looking at the availability of a league that would welcome the team. We don't know.

I guess my point is that there is no guidelines either way, so BBTB saying that  "If Canada has a fully pro D1 league then all fully pro teams from Canada should be in that league" is just speculation.  The reality is that we have no idea on what grounds FIFA makes its decision.  Maybe they weigh league strength, maybe they don't.  

I am not saying that the Canadian MLS clubs will be allowed to play in MLS indefinitely - just that it is silly to assume we know FIFA's thought process when there is absolutely no explanation given.  

In retrospect is suppose my post should have specified "potential justification".

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That's actually a very good point. I always had my doubts about CPL needing to match MLS financials...

CPL must however prove long term viability. 

If the concept of "parity" was true, PSG should have requested that exemption years ago as they spend more than over half of League 1 combined. Disparity in team budgets is nothing new and is more if the norm than the exception.

CPL's only focus at this point is to grow and prove that it can be viable for the long term

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10 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I guess my point is that there is no guidelines either way, so BBTB saying that  "If Canada has a fully pro D1 league then all fully pro teams from Canada should be in that league" is just speculation.  The reality is that we have no idea on what grounds FIFA makes its decision.  Maybe they weigh league strength, maybe they don't.  

I am not saying that the Canadian MLS clubs will be allowed to play in MLS indefinitely - just that it is silly to assume we know FIFA's thought process when there is absolutely no explanation given.  

In retrospect is suppose my post should have specified "potential justification".

I think that the opinion of respective federations is what counts to FIFA, via its regional bodies. 

Right now there's a team in Andorra, called Andorra and now owned by Pique, that is playing in a Spanish division. The rest are in the Andorra league and the winner goes to Europa League qualifying rounds. Why does this team play outside of Andorra? First, the Andorran federation is in favour as many national team players are on it. Next, it raises profile of Andorra outside of the small country. Third, the Spanish federation has no problem with it, nor ever has, in part because Andorra, before full constitutional independance, was a Principality with co-princes, who were the President of France and the closest Spanish bishop (in a city called la Seu d'Urgell, in Catalonia). So there was a historically favourable basis on a political level. An Andorran team also plays in the Spanish basketball league and even played European competition this year as a Spanish rep.

Contrary position: Gibraltar. No Gibraltar team plays in any Spanish league (it perhaps did occur in the past, but not now).  Spain claims that it is a colony, as it is British by a treaty arrangement from a colonial period war, as had been Menorca. Spain argues that it is theirs, that it should be decolonised in line with all post WWII decolonisation processes. Obviously this argument is not accepted by the UK (and has some holes), though recently, in the Brexit negotiation, the EU accepted most of the Spanish argument. All this is beside the point: Spain will not let Gibraltar teams with that name play in their leagues, for political reasons, unless they submit themselves to the Spanish federation. And also has requested to the EU to NEVER have to play any international match vs. a Gibraltar team, not senior, u-20, not women: NEVER. Which means all draws in Europe are doctored on this basis (Spain also refuses to recognise or play against Kosovo). 

So basically what are we saying: the mutual interest of the two parts, which in this case would be CSA and USSF, is what is important. If both agree, then you come to an arrangement. If one part does not accept it, then it can't happen. That is the criteria, though arguments about relative quality, budget, travel, or whatever, are simply additional reasoning to bolster the national federation's decision: which can ignore all those criteria if a simple political factor is enough to override them. Same, I believe, here: if the CSA says no, then it is no, but with MLS as a precedent, you can throw in arguments, any you like, to back the decision. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So basically what are we saying: the mutual interest of the two parts, which in this case would be CSA and USSF, is what is important. If both agree, then you come to an arrangement. If one part does not accept it, then it can't happen. That is the criteria, though arguments about relative quality, budget, travel, or whatever, are simply additional reasoning to bolster the national federation's decision: which can ignore all those criteria if a simple political factor is enough to override them. Same, I believe, here: if the CSA says no, then it is no, but with MLS as a precedent, you can throw in arguments, any you like, to back the decision. 

Totally agree and I will add this.

What's in the best interest of the CSA and Canadian soccer

1.Status quo where a few Canadians compete in MLS

2.Having the 3 clubs in CPL clubs and upgrading the level of play of the league?*

*What I mean by that is that too often Americans fans like to over value their league by saying "MLS clubs could beat la Liga or other Tier 1 bottoms". I usually answer that they might get beat often by the best but playing Messi and the top clubs often forces them to raise their game too and most importantly, they can keep up, same in France or other leagues who have huge disparity between top and bottom clubs.

**I'd like a scenario where it's 2029 and CPL will ink a more lucrative media deal. Including the 3 ownership automatically raise the value of the deal significantly. Just got to make it worth their while during the 1st deal including them. (They should get a bigger piece at first as they are raising the value of the deal with our Sports cable network no longer able to ignore the league)

***Find a way to somehow let the 3 spend big money on internationals. Relax the cap rules which in turns allows CPL richest owners who can afford to keep up to spend too.

Sure, you'll have "poor and bad teams" but more Canadians being exposed to that elite level of play should accelerate their development. Those teams would get relegated and the promoted teams would bring a new batch of players ready to be tested and learn.

In a nutshell...is it the interest of a few vs the many that matters?

Sorry for the off topic post

Edited by Ansem

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48 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Make what you want of this, JDG is in the house tonight at the York 9 match in Toronto. 

Most likely to prep the Fury for the tournament.

I still think Valour wins

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1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

Must just be his well known admiration for CPL.

LOL.

Maybe they are going to surprise us all and join CPL next year. Start scouting now.

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44 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Come on guys, I haven't heard him say anything bad about the league publicly and I haven't heard anything privately bad since last fall. He probably visited his old TFC teammate Jim Brennan to cheer his team on.

Maybe he wanted to singlehandedly boost the match attendance by 1%.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2019 at 6:31 PM, Ansem said:

Totally agree and I will add this.

What's in the best interest of the CSA and Canadian soccer

1.Status quo where a few Canadians compete in MLS

2.Having the 3 clubs in CPL clubs and upgrading the level of play of the league?*

*What I mean by that is that too often Americans fans like to over value their league by saying "MLS clubs could beat la Liga or other Tier 1 bottoms". I usually answer that they might get beat often by the best but playing Messi and the top clubs often forces them to raise their game too and most importantly, they can keep up, same in France or other leagues who have huge disparity between top and bottom clubs.

**I'd like a scenario where it's 2029 and CPL will ink a more lucrative media deal. Including the 3 ownership automatically raise the value of the deal significantly. Just got to make it worth their while during the 1st deal including them. (They should get a bigger piece at first as they are raising the value of the deal with our Sports cable network no longer able to ignore the league)

***Find a way to somehow let the 3 spend big money on internationals. Relax the cap rules which in turns allows CPL richest owners who can afford to keep up to spend too.

Sure, you'll have "poor and bad teams" but more Canadians being exposed to that elite level of play should accelerate their development. Those teams would get relegated and the promoted teams would bring a new batch of players ready to be tested and learn.

In a nutshell...is it the interest of a few vs the many that matters?

Sorry for the off topic post

I fully agree with you! But I don't know if it would be possible to make that sort of deal!

Edited by mtlsab

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40 minutes ago, HfxCeltic said:

Do the Fury have an away supporters section? Or is it fine to just sit with the Fury supporters? Booked flights already for the 2nd leg on July 24 and just trying to figure out seating options.

Not really, no. I've seen them do group bookings like that on rare occasions, but it doesn't seem like there's a designated away section (though this tends to happen on the north stand). Either way, I'll be sticking out like a sore thumb there with my Wanderers kit and Privateers 1882 scarf - make sure to say hello! 

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14 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

And as a Fury season ticket holder, I would welcome any HFX Wanderers supporters to TD Place.  I would even wear my HFX Wanderers shirt but I think my fellow Fury supporters would disown me.  

I have to say, I’m really looking forward for this next round of the VC. Halifax vs Ottawa is a really interesting matchup. I’m especially interested because of the whole Ottawa-CPL controversy. I’m genuinely curious to see how the cookie crumbles. I’m also (as a York 9 FC supporter) really interested in seeing Y9 vs MTL! 

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3 hours ago, HfxCeltic said:

Do the Fury have an away supporters section? Or is it fine to just sit with the Fury supporters? Booked flights already for the 2nd leg on July 24 and just trying to figure out seating options.

If there's enough away support, Fury does do designated away sections (possibly as a group sale?). Typically, it's one of the box seating areas in the North side. Blainville and TFC had enough organized support for a section last year. I'm not sure how you set this up though - it probably starts by contacting the club.

You'd be more than welcome to join Fury supporters pre- and post- match! Probably not the best idea to wear an away kit in the supporters section during the match though lol.

Hope you have a good time :)

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10 hours ago, Red and White said:

If there's enough away support, Fury does do designated away sections (possibly as a group sale?). Typically, it's one of the box seating areas in the North side. Blainville and TFC had enough organized support for a section last year. I'm not sure how you set this up though - it probably starts by contacting the club.

You'd be more than welcome to join Fury supporters pre- and post- match! Probably not the best idea to wear an away kit in the supporters section during the match though lol.

Hope you have a good time :)

Awesome! thanks for the heads up! and good points - we fully intend to be garbed out, so likely not a good look for anyone for us to join the SG haha. Another point though - we intend to have quite a few beverages, but don't want our slightly reduced decision making to impact  kids and families. Are there any other sections we should avoid? I have kids and don't want to be the idiot in the crowd that taints the experience for the little ones.

I've heard tell that the Privateers SG are organizing something though, so hopefully that all comes through and we have a nice little support for Halifax.

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