Ottawa CPL Club

[Gopherbashi]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

The guy quoted below mentioned MLS reserve teams in the "Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed" thread back in 2016. In fact, this individual thought the CPL should have been a division within the MLS reserve league (more specifically, USL).

To be fair, that individual did say "rebranded" but didn't mention a different city.

Hoisted by his own petard.

[Kent]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

We were being told $1.5 million and/or higher than NASL in quality by blogs and podcasts and most on here very much believed it and supported it.

This much for sure is true. Common wisdom at the time was an estimated 1.5 million salary cap.

But it's worth noting that we had moved on from the "division in NASL" phase that BBTB's vision of a "division in USL" alludes to.

Since then I think the reality of the salary cap is lower than people on here thought it would be, but also I think the quality is probably at or above what we thought it would be. We thought it would be around NASL level (I thought it would be a bit lower despite higher salaries, because of Canadian content quotas). I don't think many people thought in season 1 that a CPL team would eliminate an MLS team from the Voyageurs Cup, or beat a Guatemalan team (in the first leg, let's see how tomorrow goes) in continental competition. And I definitely didn't think the top 5 CPL goals of season 1 would look as good as they currently do.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Never doubted that watchable pro level soccer and the occasional shock result was possible with a low cap using mainly Canadian players as long as teams were still able to be genuinely fully pro in terms of their training regime in contrast with what usually happened in the original CSL era.

I received plenty of abuse for suggesting that on here with all kinds of hysterics from various people who absolutely insisted that there wasn't going to be a low cap long after there was an abundance of evidence in the public domain that there would be. 

[Bison44]

We should play a drinking game, every time you see the phrase "i received plenty of abuse"  or "all kinds of hysterics" you take a shot.  Maybe wait until friday night, I dont want to get blitzed on a wednesday.  

[baulderdash77]

I think everyone who has watched this league is surprised at how good the level of play is.  The high Canadian content rules hasn’t diluted the product.    The level of play especially by Calgary and Hamilton has exceeded expectations.

We don’t now what the budgets are of course but the OneSoccer deal has resulted in a good quality product for viewing online and on CBC, with a reported 1 million viewers for the opener.

The league has shown a couple promising players who may get to move to higher levels next year.

Theres a lot to build on for the Canadian Premier League for next year.  I’m just anxious about getting the Ottawa situation resolved.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think everyone who has watched this league is surprised at how good the level of play is.  The high Canadian content rules hasn’t diluted the product...

Not sure that should have been surprising for people who had been paying attention to their local elite amateur and/or semi-pro leagues over the years. What was decidedly odd was the way some people on here wanted the league to splurge unnecessarily on salaries just so they could say they were spending more than the Ottawa Fury.

5 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

...I’m just anxious about getting the Ottawa situation resolved.

The interesting question is why they are still not sold on the future prospects of the league. Exploring this in depth would probably get the usual suspects on here behaving with all the subtlety and incisive intellectual wit of a gorilla going into a territorial response in a bamboo forest, so I'll limit it to saying that I suspect when OSEG look at it dispassionately they think the league needs Victoria closer to sharing Halifax's success at the box office, a clear pathway to ten on expansion rather than lots of arm waving from the now silenced Alex Bunbury and no York 9 sized question marks over viability in certain markets. They also probably want to see how season ticket renewals go at the end of year one.

[narduch]

Haha, I love it. "I am much more intelligent than the rest of you" LOL.

[ted]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The interesting question is why they are still not sold on the future prospects of the league. 

Because they are human beings who are letting ego and  pride stand in the way of an easy decision. They can see that the league is a success already but they have invested so heavily emotionally in this dispute they will continue to wait. 

As for your point about attendances not being enough in the CanPL currently, the USL Championship average attendance was 4,923 in 2018. Given that the CanPL number as of Tuesday is 4,569, I think we can safely call bullshit on that rationale.

No point discussing this topic any more right now really. IMO it is very unlikely that anyone else will try and out a team in Ottawa in the near future and OSEG will not likely be announcing any decision any time soon. 

[Bison44]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

Haha, I love it. "I am much more intelligent than the rest of you" LOL.

Hey, quiet you territorial gorilla smashing though bamboo....let the sage elder speak.  In every post he will explain how we are all hysterical and he alone was right 3-4 years ago when everyone was spitballing about almost every detail of the future CPL.  

[Gopherbashi]

Yeah come on you usual suspects, lay off him.

[Initial B]

1 hour ago, ted said:

Because they are human beings who are letting ego and  pride stand in the way of an easy decision. They can see that the league is a success already but they have invested so heavily emotionally in this dispute they will continue to wait. 

As for your point about attendances not being enough in the CanPL currently, the USL Championship average attendance was 4,923 in 2018. Given that the CanPL number as of Tuesday is 4,569, I think we can safely call ******** on that rationale.

No point discussing this topic any more right now really. IMO it is very unlikely that anyone else will try and out a team in Ottawa in the near future and OSEG will not likely be announcing any decision any time soon. 

To me, CanPL is looking pretty good, but if I were a businessman I would want to assess the risk before jumping to a new league. When OSEG jumped from NASL to USL, it was pretty obvious the NASL was imploding and the USL conference system meant less travel and therefore lower operational costs. It also had more home games to help increase gate revenues. At this point, joining CPL may still trigger financial penalties and they'll be losing a home date and its associated revenue. I just have this gut feeling that they'll wait until CanPL has 3 years under its belt before making a switch, or whenever the current USL agreement runs out.

[BuzzAndSting]

9 minutes ago, Initial B said:

To me, CanPL is looking pretty good, but if I were a businessman I would want to assess the risk before jumping to a new league. When OSEG jumped from NASL to USL, it was pretty obvious the NASL was imploding and the USL conference system meant less travel and therefore lower operational costs. It also had more home games to help increase gate revenues. At this point, joining CPL may still trigger financial penalties and they'll be losing a home date and its associated revenue. I just have this gut feeling that they'll wait until CanPL has 3 years under its belt before making a switch, or whenever the current USL agreement runs out.

I've thought about this and I'm skeptical. OSEG is controlled by some very shrewd business people and I would be stunned if they didn't include a caveat in their agreement with the USL about sanctioning. As in, they would face no penalty if by no fault of their own they weren't sanctioned to play in the USL. It could explain the Fury continued non-committal on joining the CPL even if they expect to be denied sanctioning and move to the CPL. Just a thought!

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I've thought about this and I'm skeptical. OSEG is controlled by some very shrewd business people and I would be stunned if they didn't include a caveat in their agreement with the USL about sanctioning. As in, they would face no penalty if by no fault of their own they weren't sanctioned to play in the USL. It could explain the Fury continued non-committal on joining the CPL even if they expect to be denied sanctioning and move to the CPL. Just a thought!

Absolutely right.  In 99% of agreements it’s typical to have a “force majeure” clause.. never mind the fact that no doubt the contract identified itself as being subject to the laws of CONCACAF/fifa as it likely would need to for them to be sanctioned in the first place.  

Even without those clauses stipulated USL would have no case against Ottawa IMO - though no doubt they are there. 

[Ansem]

I was under the impression that there would be no penalty for leaving due to the sanctioning condition.

I think it's a mix of egos, wanting to have the red carpet treatment (keep roster*, lower to no entrance fees, do business as they see fit)

*CPL did say that they were willing to let them keep the same roster...I wonder if they were going to be exempt of starting 6 Canadians as well...

[CanadaFan123]

As time goes by OSEG is only losing leverage.  Time to come to the table and make a deal, else you will be desanctioned and/or forced to compete with a CPL team in the market, which will surely cut into profits (edit: revenues).  Fewer Canadians will want to play for Ottawa as time goes by and they see that CPL is a better option.. then what?  You're going to attract fans to watch a bunch of MLS loan players and internationals play Atlanta II?  

Time to come to the table or slowly die off.  The writing is on the wall, unfortunately (or fortunately).  

Edited August 8, 2019 by CanadaFan123

[Unnamed Trialist]

If the CPL does not loosen its collective tight asszz and let in other teams in similar conditions as the existing ones, this will happen: teams will fold before new teams enter, and we'll be heading into the pile of hot feces once again.

[Kent]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:56 PM, Kent said:

This much for sure is true. Common wisdom at the time was an estimated 1.5 million salary cap.

But it's worth noting that we had moved on from the "division in NASL" phase that BBTB's vision of a "division in USL" alludes to.

Since then I think the reality of the salary cap is lower than people on here thought it would be, but also I think the quality is probably at or above what we thought it would be. We thought it would be around NASL level (I thought it would be a bit lower despite higher salaries, because of Canadian content quotas). I don't think many people thought in season 1 that a CPL team would eliminate an MLS team from the Voyageurs Cup, or beat a Guatemalan team (in the first leg, let's see how tomorrow goes) eliminate a Guatemalan team in continental competition. And I definitely didn't think the top 5 CPL goals of season 1 would look as good as they currently do.

Updated. Woooo!

[CanadaFan123]

Crazy idea that sort of makes sense..

What if CPL says "screw OSEG" and involves the Ottawa universities and local clubs instead.  In Latin America it is common to have "university" clubs where players are drawn from a university.  I.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobos_UPNFM

It would seem to be a match made in heaven, a team with public sector roots in Ottawa.  We already know U-Sports players can play in CPL, so that's fine.  We need a team in Ottawa and probably won't have access to Lansdowne for the time being.  Additionally, this team would (presumably) be able to get a good chunk of their roster on the cheap through scholarships, thus keeping salaries down but extending value to players.

Also, it would be a completely unique thing.  Hopefully a hit for students and equally a draw for CPL hungry Fury fans to a more traditional football team.  Is this a perfect storm or a pipe dream?

Edited August 9, 2019 by CanadaFan123

[deschamp86]

7 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Crazy idea that sort of makes sense..

What if CPL says "screw OSEG" and involves the Ottawa universities and local clubs instead.  In Latin America it is common to have "university" clubs where players are drawn from a university.  I.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobos_UPNFM

It would seem to be a match made in heaven, a team with public sector roots in Ottawa.  We already know U-Sports players can play in CPL, so that's fine.  We need a team in Ottawa and probably won't have access to Lansdowne for the time being.  Additionally, this team would (presumably) be able to get a good chunk of their roster on the cheap through scholarships, thus keeping salaries down but extending value to players.

Also, it would be a completely unique thing.  Hopefully a hit for students and equally a draw for CPL hungry Fury fans to a more traditional football team.  Is this a perfect storm or a pipe dream?

CPL, no. I think it would be interesting to see university teams play in L1O though

[m-g-williams]

8 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Crazy idea that sort of makes sense..

What if CPL says "screw OSEG" and involves the Ottawa universities and local clubs instead.  In Latin America it is common to have "university" clubs where players are drawn from a university.  I.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobos_UPNFM

It would seem to be a match made in heaven, a team with public sector roots in Ottawa.  We already know U-Sports players can play in CPL, so that's fine.  We need a team in Ottawa and probably won't have access to Lansdowne for the time being.  Additionally, this team would (presumably) be able to get a good chunk of their roster on the cheap through scholarships, thus keeping salaries down but extending value to players.

Also, it would be a completely unique thing.  Hopefully a hit for students and equally a draw for CPL hungry Fury fans to a more traditional football team.  Is this a perfect storm or a pipe dream?

I know people hate to hear this, but I really think we're in a Fury-or-bust situation in Ottawa. They're well-known, well-established and have a lock on the best stadium in the city. Either the Fury need to join the CPL (my preferred option) or OSEG shuts down the team and a new one comes in as the soccer tenant at TD Place. If someone tries to start up a CPL team here while the Fury are still around, it'll look like a joke and tarnish locals' view of the CPL. 

[deschamp86]

9 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

I know people hate to hear this, but I really think we're in a Fury-or-bust situation in Ottawa. They're well-known, well-established and have a lock on the best stadium in the city. Either the Fury need to join the CPL (my preferred option) or OSEG shuts down the team and a new one comes in as the soccer tenant at TD Place. If someone tries to start up a CPL team here while the Fury are still around, it'll look like a joke and tarnish locals' view of the CPL. 

Yes, and unfortunately if Fury goes bust, I don't think you'll have too many investors interested in starting a pro soccer team in Ottawa anytime soon

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, m-g-williams said:

I know people hate to hear this, but I really think we're in a Fury-or-bust situation in Ottawa.

or they get CONCACAF'ED

[PaulV]

28 minutes ago, Ansem said:

or they get CONCACAF'ED

I think that's covered under the "or bust" scenario.

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

I know people hate to hear this, but I really think we're in a Fury-or-bust situation in Ottawa. They're well-known, well-established and have a lock on the best stadium in the city. Either the Fury need to join the CPL (my preferred option) or OSEG shuts down the team and a new one comes in as the soccer tenant at TD Place. If someone tries to start up a CPL team here while the Fury are still around, it'll look like a joke and tarnish locals' view of the CPL. 

100% agreed with this.  This market can only handle one professional soccer team (and that is no slam dunk).  Anyone wanting to put a CPL team in Gatineau, while the Fury is still around would be nuts.  It just wouldn't draw and just weaken the Fury...then possibly no pro soccer in Ottawa for a while. 

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

If someone tries to start up a CPL team here while the Fury are still around, it'll look like a joke and tarnish locals' view of the CPL.

Surely the locals' view of the Fury is also at jeopardy from this ordeal?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Aird25