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Ottawa CPL Club


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55 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

 If I'm the league and I'm serious about Pro/Rel, I go for Gatineau heavily playing on the French + Quebec identity and wait out CONCACAF making a final decision on their sanction.

For sure. And if the goal is for Canada to have as many professional clubs in this country as possible, leave the Fury alone and just add a CPL club in Gatineau. Moving the Fury to the CPL decreases the chances of a Gatineau club, which only lowers the potential of how many professional clubs we can have. It doesn't increase it, that's for sure.

Edited by Obinna
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8 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I wonder how much of a difference in salaries there really is?  You would think that CPL would increase a bit for next year, close the gap somewhat.  

1) we don’t know whether there is a salary gap;

2) It’s immaterial because this was never about a salary gap, the Fury axed half of their roster at the end of last season anyways and could easily have rebuilt to the CPL’s salary cap (assuming it is in fact different);

3) Ottawa didn’t join the CPL because their management made (what in my opinion is) a very bad judgment call. They believed that a) the CPL would fail and they were better off in the USL, and b) if the CPL ended up succeeding, they’d join later and thereby ‘have their cake and eat it too’ by getting in on the new league once the major risk had passed. 

I believe that the Fury is up a creek without a paddle in the long run. They will have to join the CPL to survive. Either sanctioning will be withdrawn (for real this time) or the CPL will render a USL based club irrelevant, uninteresting, and all around ignominious. Who wants to see them play Bethlehem Steel or whatever? As the CPL grows and succeeds, the Fury will continue to decline in relevance, until an Ottawa based CPL club is created and puts the Fury out of business -or until the Fury wises the fuck up and joins the CPL (if we’ll still have them). 

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We need to take the emotion out of these arguments. I don't think staying in USL was a bad judgment call.  Three leagues in five years? After seeing NASL go kaput I can see how they want to hitch themselves to another upstart where costs and longevity where significant unknowns.  As much as we enjoy the Canadianness of a CSL matchup, I'm not sure that playing Pacific FC vs Bethlehem Steel makes much of a difference to the drawing power of an Ottawa team.

They are unlikely to be forcibly sanctioned into a new league or have an Ottawa based CPL competitor run them out of business and, in all likelihood, they will have their cake and eat it too. CanPL needs markets like Ottawa more than Ottawa needs CanPL.

Edited by The Real Marc
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35 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

As much as we enjoy the Canadianness of a CSL matchup, I'm not sure that playing Pacific FC vs Bethlehem Steel makes much of a difference to the drawing power of an Ottawa team.

Maybe I misunderstand the mindset of a Fury fan, but to me this seems counter-intuitive.  The chance to play a Halifax team that has lots of hype and excitement around it?  An Ontario derby?  A cross border battle with a future QC team?  To me, every one of those is a much more attractive proposition than a game against Bethlehem Steel.  And as excitement about CPL grows, that equation becomes even more imbalanced.

 

36 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

They are unlikely to be forcibly sanctioned into a new league...

Not sure what your basis is for making this statement, but CONCACAF gave a pretty solid preview last year that this could happen.  In the absence of any information to the contrary, claiming it is unlikely seems pretty speculative. 

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1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

We need to take the emotion out of these arguments. I don't think staying in USL was a bad judgment call.  Three leagues in five years? After seeing NASL go kaput I can see how they want to hitch themselves to another upstart where costs and longevity where significant unknowns.  As much as we enjoy the Canadianness of a CSL matchup, I'm not sure that playing Pacific FC vs Bethlehem Steel makes much of a difference to the drawing power of an Ottawa team.

They are unlikely to be forcibly sanctioned into a new league or have an Ottawa based CPL competitor run them out of business and, in all likelihood, they will have their cake and eat it too. CanPL needs markets like Ottawa more than Ottawa needs CanPL.

You're right, three leagues in four or five years doesn't look great. I knew that and said, from the moment they announced the switch to the USL, that they were not going to be in the CPL. Which really makes me question OSEG's commitment to Canadian soccer, because they would have known the progress on CPL and have essentially shot it in the foot twice. Who knows, maybe the CPL starts in 2018 if the Fury don't abandon ship.

Anyway, you can say what you will about Pacific vs Bethlehem but the simple fact is that there are no natural rivals for the Fury in the USL and the number of teams makes it difficult to see who would become a rival. The closest team is last placed Hartford, so look for big crowds on September 22nd for that rivalry matchup! ... but seriously, it's not just teams like Loudoun and Bethlehem that you can't place on a map, it's not just the obvious farm teams like NYRB 2 and Atlanta 2, it's the fact that there is simply no reason to see an opposing team. Give me a reason to care about beating (or cheering for) Indy Eleven, Louisville City, or Memphis 901, give me a reason to go see them. 

On the other hand, I want to see Calgary and Edmonton lose (political reasons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ), people on the Pacific coast have this image of hipsters and haughtiness that would be nice to beat, Hamilton and York are in the GTA and think they're the centre of the universe, etc. There are clear and obvious reasons to cheer against them.

Then you add in travelling support. Sure, it's easier to go from Hartford to Ottawa than from Pacific, but why would you? There are 3 other teams closer than Ottawa and probably a half dozen more that are easier to get to. Meanwhile Ottawa doesn't have many people from Hartford, but we have a ton of people who moved here from BC, from Alberta, from Manitoba, from the GTA, and from Halifax. They might not go to see the Fury, but then their hometown team is here, so they go out. Maybe they enjoy themselves and decide to come back more often. 

The USL *might* have stability and short term reliability, but the Fury are clearly struggling and there is no real potential for growth. The CPL is clearly the far better long term choice and, arguably, is as good in the short term. 

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51 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

The USL *might* have stability and short term reliability, but the Fury are clearly struggling and there is no real potential for growth. The CPL is clearly the far better long term choice and, arguably, is as good in the short term. 

And what of IMFC TFC and VWFC, should they leave MLS as well to come to CPL.  (over the long term)

 

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39 minutes ago, Impactsupporter said:

And what of IMFC TFC and VWFC, should they leave MLS as well to come to CPL.  (over the long term)

 

To me it depends on your definition of long term? 5 years, no, probably not. 20 years? Yes, probably. But it depends on how things evolve, it might be something that is never a good idea or it could be that CPL shocks everyone and they come over in, say, 2 years. Ideally we wouldn't have any teams in American leagues but there are benefits (in the same way that Wales benefits from Cardiff and Swansea in the English system). I'd say it depends on how big the financial and talent gap is between CPL teams and MLS teams? 

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5 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

Anyway, you can say what you will about Pacific vs Bethlehem but the simple fact is that there are no natural rivals for the Fury in the USL and the number of teams makes it difficult to see who would become a rival...

I think your points on natural rivals are spot on ... for existing fans of Canadian soccer. Who are into the whole Canadian rivalry thing and are going to attend the Fury, regardless of what league they are in.

For everyone else attending, those points on natural rivals are totally off as natural rivalries have a minimal role in drawing attendance for a sports team at this minor level of play and where they would for Ontario they are with major mid-west and eastern centres like Toronto,  Montréal, Chicago, Boston, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, New York.

The vast majority of people in existing CanPL markets aren't going to games because they're playing Valour or York9 this week, they're going because they are fans of the sport or want something to do. I'm sorry, the number of people in the stands that want to beat Pacific FC because they want to antagonize left coasters is approximately six to 12. Ditto Fury in USL. It makes really no difference to OSEG who they are playing each week. They aren't in this for Canadian soccer and have never pretended they were.

Don't get me wrong, even as a former A-League fan I prefer CanPL to USL immensely. But to those seemingly mystified by Fury's decision to stay put ... take the blinders off, it was very rational and a smart business decision. It's no risk long-term, because even if USL fails, CanPL will always need an Ottawa team.

Edited by The Real Marc
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Does anyone have game by game attendance in one spot to look over? I'm skeptical that there would be a noticeable bump in "natural rivalry" numbers, but I'm curious to know if that is the case or not. When Cavalry and Edmonton play each other, do they outdraw their average attendance? How about games between York 9 and Hamilton (excluding home openers would probably be fairest). Which away team has been the highest draw for each team? I'm guessing it probably has more to do with the weather than the opponent, but nonetheless I am curious to see how the numbers shake down.

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51 minutes ago, Kent said:

Does anyone have game by game attendance in one spot to look over? I'm skeptical that there would be a noticeable bump in "natural rivalry" numbers, but I'm curious to know if that is the case or not. When Cavalry and Edmonton play each other, do they outdraw their average attendance? How about games between York 9 and Hamilton (excluding home openers would probably be fairest). Which away team has been the highest draw for each team? I'm guessing it probably has more to do with the weather than the opponent, but nonetheless I am curious to see how the numbers shake down.

Each team's season page on Wikipedia would probably have it, but I don't know that the sample size is large enough to be able to draw any accurate conclusions.

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12 hours ago, narduch said:

There are rumours that USL wants to kick the MLS reserve sides out of its top division. 

I still think the Fury are better off in CPL

Fury isn't considered an MLS reserve squad. They have an affiliation with the Impact like many USL clubs. It's more against the Seattle Portland And Red Bulls.

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9 hours ago, Blackdude said:

Fury isn't considered an MLS reserve squad. They have an affiliation with the Impact like many USL clubs. It's more against the Seattle Portland And Red Bulls.

I don't think that is what he meant.  I suspect the idea was that the Fury would be better off in CPL even once the MLS2 squads are kicked out (thus mitigating the 2nd division feel).

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10 hours ago, Blackdude said:

Fury isn't considered an MLS reserve squad. They have an affiliation with the Impact like many USL clubs. It's more against the Seattle Portland And Red Bulls.

I realize that. 

I just think they are better off in CPL than in whatever iteration of the USL is around

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