Ottawa CPL Club

[BuzzAndSting]

40 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

It doesnt matter what it is. there is no way that is the real stumbling block.  Someone's salary off the field??  A GM, a head scout, waterboy, assistant goalkeeper coach, how can that be something that cant be worked out??  That is very frustrating.  

It is if the person who is effectively running the club is the one who’ll be affected.

[dyslexic nam]

I find it hard to believe that sort of arrangement couldn’t be accommodated.  That is the easiest sort of concession the league could make.  There has to be a lot more to it than that. 

[Ansem]

31 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I find it hard to believe that sort of arrangement couldn’t be accommodated.  That is the easiest sort of concession the league could make.  There has to be a lot more to it than that. 

That's not accommodating If you're caving to everything they want.

The league was certainly willing to accommodate on the rosters rules and more but the Fury must have made requests that the league weren't willing to accept.

Can't cave to everything and we dont knowing some of those requests were borderline insane like the NY Cosmos did to MLS who had them walk out the room laughing and implement NYCFC

[dyslexic nam]

48 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That's not accommodating If you're caving to everything they want.

The league was certainly willing to accommodate on the rosters rules and more but the Fury must have made requests that the league weren't willing to accept.

Can't cave to everything and we dont knowing some of those requests were borderline insane like the NY Cosmos did to MLS who had them walk out the room laughing and implement NYCFC

I am annoyed as shit at Fury for holding out - but I don’t believe that the issue of overpaying a team administrator (in whatever role) was the final straw.   There are so many more important things that would need to be negotiated. 

[Kent]

On 8/3/2019 at 3:48 PM, Ansem said:

That's not accommodating If you're caving to everything they want.

The league was certainly willing to accommodate on the rosters rules and more but the Fury must have made requests that the league weren't willing to accept.

Can't cave to everything and we dont knowing some of those requests were borderline insane like the NY Cosmos did to MLS who had them walk out the room laughing and implement NYCFC

I do agree that there is a chance JDG was heavily involved in making the decision to go or no go, and that his salary could have been impacted and thus give him reason to say no.

I just wanted to point out that the NYCFC vs Cosmos thing might not be a great example since MLS caved to NYCFC's demands to let them in without a soccer specific stadium plan.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I do agree that there is a chance JDG was heavily involved in making the decision to go or no go, and that his salary could have been impacted and thus give him reason to say no.

I just wanted to point out that the NYCFC vs Cosmos thing might not be a great example since MLS caved to NYCFC's demands to let them in without a soccer specific stadium plan.

I had ask a mod on Bigsoccer regarding what happened with the NY Cosmos and he posted this below.

When MLS announced they were looking for an NY2 club, one of the potential ownership groups that approached MLS was the Cosmos. However, the owners for the Cosmos were so delusional about their club, that they thought they were in the position of power and demanded that MLS allow them to retain ownership of their brand (something no other MLS club has) and allow them to use the cost of building a stadium as an expansion fee rather than giving MLS a pile of money. MLS, quite rightly, pointed and laughed at the Cosmos as they walked away.

[narduch]

That is interesting info.

That means if the Whitecaps did ever want to leave MLS for CPL (I realize that was a fantasy thread), they would probably have to rebrand with a new name.

What a joke though that NYCFC still plays at Yankee stadium. Doesn't seem they will ever move.

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

I had ask a mod on Bigsoccer regarding what happened with the NY Cosmos and he posted this below.

When MLS announced they were looking for an NY2 club, one of the potential ownership groups that approached MLS was the Cosmos. However, the owners for the Cosmos were so delusional about their club, that they thought they were in the position of power and demanded that MLS allow them to retain ownership of their brand (something no other MLS club has) and allow them to use the cost of building a stadium as an expansion fee rather than giving MLS a pile of money. MLS, quite rightly, pointed and laughed at the Cosmos as they walked away.

I wasn't doubting that side of it. Just that MLS also was saying any team needs to have a plan in place to have a soccer specific stadium. NYCFC still doesn't, and they are in their 5th season.  In fact, if I remember correctly, the Cosmos were further ahead back then than NYCFC is now in terms of stadium plan.

[Initial B]

The land (Belmont Park) that the Cosmos staked on for building their stadium got buried in red tape and was eventually sold to the NY Islanders for a new NHL arena. NY real estate is a byzantine process.

[CDNFootballer]

On 8/5/2019 at 6:28 AM, Ansem said:

I had ask a mod on Bigsoccer regarding what happened with the NY Cosmos and he posted this below.

When MLS announced they were looking for an NY2 club, one of the potential ownership groups that approached MLS was the Cosmos. However, the owners for the Cosmos were so delusional about their club, that they thought they were in the position of power and demanded that MLS allow them to retain ownership of their brand (something no other MLS club has) and allow them to use the cost of building a stadium as an expansion fee rather than giving MLS a pile of money. MLS, quite rightly, pointed and laughed at the Cosmos as they walked away.

Bigsoccer forum is a joke and there's many Cosmos haters there, wouldn't count on them for the real story. There is some truth to their spin though as retaining brand ownership was something the Cosmos wanted and that was one sticking point even though MLS wanted the club in their league.

[Ansem]

 

 

[Aird25]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

 

8 is far better than 7. I'm surprised we still don't know who the 8th will be though. 

[Reign]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

8 is far better than 7. I'm surprised we still don't know who the 8th will be though. 

Because there isn’t a 8th locked in yet.

[Aird25]

30 minutes ago, Reign said:

Because there isn’t a 8th locked in yet.

And that's surprising. They had 7 clubs join at once with nothing but a shared vision, but now they've shown that the league is a reality and they can't find one other partner? These cities have had a long time to prepare at this point.

[Reign]

2 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

And that's surprising. They had 7 clubs join at once with nothing but a shared vision, but now they've shown that the league is a reality and they can't find one other partner? These cities have had a long time to prepare at this point.

I know a lot of people disagree, but I feel the rumoured “expansion fee” may have slowed things down. 

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

And that's surprising. They had 7 clubs join at once with nothing but a shared vision, but now they've shown that the league is a reality and they can't find one other partner? These cities have had a long time to prepare at this point.

Not quite.  Edmonton, Forge & Valour joined at once.  That's it.  We knew others were coming but those three needed to spur the league forward for a 2019 launch.  We're doing this if we have 6 teams or 8 teams or 10.

They had to otherwise it was all going to be talk and talk and talk.  They'd all still be a bunch of talking big-shots running their mouths off if someone somewhere didn't decide it was now or never.  

It was, should say is, the craziest league launch ever.  Someday someone is going to have to write a book it it is going to be quite the read. 

And whoever was in charge of getting Mediapro as a sponsor, under the terms that they did, they should get the Order of Canada. 

[Bison44]

No ones is far enough along to come out and blab about it much.  If Saskatoon or a Quebec team get all the ducks in line, you'll hear about it ASAP.  Ottawa, not so sure, with sanctioning etc, and the fact they have everything already in place... if it does happen it might be quick.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Not quite.  Edmonton, Forge & Valour joined at once.  That's it...

It was actually just the Forge & Valour initially. Tom Fath had to be convinced that operating FCE would be sustainable before he agreed that the team would return in a CanPL context, so were Edmonton not second last to announce?

The more excitable on here that wanted a big budget rival to MLS used to be convinced that the Edmonton owner would be Daryl Katz, just as Eugene Melnyk was supposed to be the key to doing something big in Ottawa. Suggesting that the existing FCE and Fury operations would fit comfortably in the new setup and would very much be needed to have any chance of reaching eight at launch was not a mainstream opinion on here back in 2017.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Bison44]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It was actually just the Forge & Valour initially. Tom Fath had to be convinced that operating FCE would be sustainable before he agreed that the team would return in a CanPL context, so were Edmonton not second last to announce?

The more excitable on here that wanted a big budget rival to MLS used to be convinced that the Edmonton owner would be Daryl Katz, just as Eugene Melnyk was supposed to be the key to doing something big in Ottawa. Suggesting that the existing FCE and Fury operations would fit comfortably in the new setup and would very much be needed to have any chance of reaching eight at launch was not a mainstream opinion on here back in 2017.

Who are you talking to??  Who are you trying to convince??  Repeating this same old unsolicited story about how "excitable" people here wanted a big budget to rival MLS etc, give it a break.  Some people didnt think the league would fly without MLS reserve teams, and you dont mention that every second post.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

...Some people didnt think the league would fly without MLS reserve teams, and you dont mention that every second post.  

The reason I don't mention that is because I don't remember anybody advocating the entry of MLS reserve teams on here. The argument I remember is that things would be easier in some ways if they allowed MLS affiliates to be involved to shore up some smaller markets. All the handwringing over how the league gets to 8 teams so there is a balanced schedule with fewer weeknight games would probably be a non-issue right now, for example, if a TFC affiliate was involved.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kent]

32 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The reason I don't mention that is because I don't remember anybody advocating the entry of MLS reserve teams on here. The argument I remember is that things would be easier in some ways if they allowed MLS affiliates to be involved to shore up some smaller markets. All the handwringing over how the league gets to 8 teams so there is a balanced schedule with fewer weeknight games would probably be a non-issue right now, for example, if a TFC affiliate was involved.

The guy quoted below mentioned MLS reserve teams in the "Vote: CPL cities needed to succeed" thread back in 2016. In fact, this individual thought the CPL should have been a division within the MLS reserve league (more specifically, USL).

On 9/21/2016 at 3:13 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

As part of a Canadian division within USL:

TFC II (rebranded)

Impact II (rebranded)

Whitecaps II (rebranded)

Ottawa Fury

FC Edmonton

Calgary (new team)

Winnipeg (new team)

Hamilton (new team)

To be fair, that individual did say "rebranded" but didn't mention a different city.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^this was posted before Paul Beirne had even been hired and is based on a premise how to achieve a domestic pro league that the CSA decided not to pursue. Even then I'm opposed to reserve teams because I think USL were crazy to ever allow them in under direct MLS related branding. What's worth noting is that a lot of my concerns back then revolved around what needs to happen to sustain something like a $1.5 million salary cap. Having the cap probably half that at most so that cities like Halifax and Victoria could be targeted allayed a lot of my fears.

[Bison44]

Oh that darn pesky paper trail that doesnt fit my narrative.  

[CanSuffer]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Having the cap probably half that at most so that cities like Halifax and Victoria could be targeted allayed a lot of my fears.

We didn't know what the salary cap was going to be before the league launched. We don't know what the cap is now that is up and running. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

44 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Oh that darn pesky paper trail that doesnt fit my narrative.  

It actually does dude. Won't stop the usual suspects wittering on about MLS reserve teams when it was never what was being suggested.

24 minutes ago, CanSuffer said:

We didn't know what the salary cap was going to be before the league launched. We don't know what the cap is now that is up and running. 

We were being told $1.5 million and/or higher than NASL in quality by blogs and podcasts and most on here very much believed it and supported it. I was roundly ridiculed when I suggested that smaller PDL-sized markets should be part of the mix if a purely domestic league was going to be pursued, along with an original CSL sized salary cap (which I calculated to be around 625k when adjusted for inflation) and rosters that focused mainly CSL style on local Canadian players.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot