Ottawa CPL Club

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think OSEG do have some kind of exclusive management deal over Landsdowne. This is probably a big drama over not very much though. Once you have been given playing out sanctioning by the CSA it's expected to be a rubber stamp process in future years and business law legislation very much applies.

[BuzzAndSting]

36 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

This is total speculation but I wonder if OSEG has indicated to the CSA that they’d rather fold than go to CPL and the CSA is reluctant to push one of our few pro teams over the cliff via sanctioning - particularly if they’re not prepared to do the same to TFC 2 et al. Does OSEG control the stadium even without Fury as a tenant? Can a CPL team play there if the Fury fold?

Part of the PPP deal for Lansdowne grants OSEG operation rights of the whole area for another 25+ years. The City "owns" the facility but that's only in name, OSEG has complete control over it's operation. 

If you scroll back through this thread there's great discussion about the scenario in which the Fury fold and a CPL is incoming.

[Viruk42]

9 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

Tell that to the poster I was responding to because he was saying that there are existing natural rivalries in the CanPL that would boost attendance for an Ottawa CanPL club vs Ottawa USL club!  It's dream time in this forum sometimes.  Put aside our fandom for a minute here and we can all admit that CanPL rivalries are completely non-existent outside of Cal:Edm because there's only a grand total of seven teams playing each other 4-5 times and they haven't had time to develop and there is minimal geographic proximity, which all posters responding have admitted is definite catalyst. 

Maybe I am wrong, but my feeling is that people would rather go to games against Hamilton, Halifax, Winnipeg, etc than against Loudoun, Bethlehem, NYRB 2, Atlanta 2, etc. Even the bigger US locations, like Tampa Bay - why should I care about a random Tampa Bay team? I don't care about the Lightning, Buccaneers, or Rays (except in kind of hoping they move to Montreal), why would I care about the... Rowdies?

The games played thing is interesting as well - in the USL, the Fury play teams what, twice a year? So you're trying to build rivalries with obscure American towns with just one home game. If they were in CPL, an 8 team league would probably mean ~4 games against each team for a 28 game season (plus the cup games, of course). So not only do you have places that people can actually be interested in, you have more games against opponents to learn to hate. 

I mean, this is the Fury's 3rd year in USL after 3 years in the NASL. Who are their rivals? Which team draws extra fans who circle the game on the calendar? I'm not saying that will happen immediately with the CPL, but I do believe attendance will be better and that rivalries will develop much much faster.

[narduch]

Not only that the USL is changing all the time. 

Ottawa currently plays in a 36 team behemoth league. Meaning Ottawa plays no western teams unless the make the final. 

And now they are talking about axing the MLS reserve squads. 

Doesn't sound like a recipe for much rivalry building

[Reign]

10 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Where possible it’s really necessary for Canadian teams to play in Canadian leagues.  For the MLS teams, fine stay there as long as you like but for all levels if there’s a Canadian League they should be in it.

For me that includes USL Championship, League 1 and PDL.

So Fury to CPL

Toronto FC 2 to L1O

TSS Rovers and Victoria Highlanders to L1BC when it starts.

The other PDL teams can stay.  Seeing how things are developing, I’m just not interested in excuses and exceptions anymore.

Whitecaps to CPL

[Kent]

10 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

Where possible it’s really necessary for Canadian teams to play in Canadian leagues.  For the MLS teams, fine stay there as long as you like but for all levels if there’s a Canadian League they should be in it.

For me that includes USL Championship, League 1 and PDL.

So Fury to CPL

Toronto FC 2 to L1O

TSS Rovers and Victoria Highlanders to L1BC when it starts.

The other PDL teams can stay.  Seeing how things are developing, I’m just not interested in excuses and exceptions anymore.

Also it would be great if the MLS youth teams would play in their provincial leagues instead of USSDA. Not only does it theoretically expose those provincial leagues to better competition, but it also would be much better for scouting for the MLS teams. Like how TFC found Jonathan Osorio and Raheem Edwards by having their youth teams play against them in Canadian leagues.

[Viruk42]

2 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

I mean, this is the Fury's 3rd year in USL after 3 years in the NASL. Who are their rivals? 

Every time I ask this I get silence, so I went through their 5.5 year history and did up an Ottawa Fury team-by-team record. It appears as though their main rivals would, presumably, be the other ex-NASL teams, Tampa, Carolina, and Indy, though they've played more games against a CPL team than any USL team, having played 8 cup games against FC Edmonton. Assuming OSEG gets their wish and the Fury stay in USL, it won't be until sometime in 2021 that Tampa presumably passes Edmonton on that list (depending on the cup games of course). 

* oh, for teams' current league I went with USL-E for those in the eastern conference, not that the Fury have played any who are currently in the west, and USL-L1 for teams that are now down a level, in case people were confused by that
** I did this fairly quickly so there may be one or two mistakes in the GF/GA numbers, maybe even in Win/Loss, but not in total games played.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Viruk42

[Ams1984]

Why are some people acting like the Fury actually matter or have some kind of leg to stand on here?

1) Sanctioning isn’t a right. Fury will do what they are allowed to by the sanctioning bodies or they’ll fold. 

2) The Fury aren’t some magnate brand that would make or break CPL. If the Fury fold, and 10 minutes later ‘Ottawa FC’ is created as a CPL club, problem solved.

3) USL is an irrelevant league with no upside. In 10 years USL will still be the ‘lower leagues’ in the US soccer pyramid. In 20 years ditto. The CPL on the other hand is a league with massive future potential. I have no doubt that in 10 or 20 years it will have far surpassed USL in every measurable way. 

4) As I’ve said before, if I were a Fury fan, I’d be furious with OSEG, not with the CSA, CONCACAF, or the CPL. Not only did OSEG lie to it’s fans about why they weren’t joining the CPL (‘its about the salary cap’ -yeah... that’s why you had such heavy roster turnover anyways right?) but OSEG’s true reason for not joining the CPL is that they have no vision and/or don’t give a shit about/believe in Canadian soccer. They also have zero ambition evidently... they’re content to be a lower division club of little to no relevance. 

IN SUM: as I’ve said before, the Fury don’t matter anymore. They can fold or not, join the CPL or not, I don’t care, it doesn’t matter at all. We don’t need them. There will be an Ottawa based CPL club sooner than later, whoever they’re owned by and whatever they end up being called, it is going to happen. 

If OSEG has any brains (or interest in actually owning a soccer club beyond the short term) that Ottawa based CPL club will be the Fury. If not, it’ll be their problem, not ours. 

[ted]

14 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

The rivalries that a sportsfan in a big eastern city like Ottawa has with large eastern Canadian and US cities exist because, as you state, they have been built up over time through the histories of other sports and personal interaction with these cities. 

IMO you overestimate these rivalries and illustrate why moving will be fine in the long run.

Rivalries will develop quite quickly and when they are playing teams in Montreal, Quebec and the GTA one of more of those will become something significant.

In the mean time, casual fans, the people who need to fill the seats, will be more likely to know and care about Winnipeg, Victoria, Calgary and Edmonton than they do about Charleston, Hartford, Charlotte, or Chester. 

[Bison44]

17 minutes ago, ted said:

IMO you overestimate these rivalries and illustrate why moving will be fine in the long run.

Rivalries will develop quite quickly and when they are playing teams in Montreal, Quebec and the GTA one of more of those will become something significant.

In the mean time, casual fans, the people who need to fill the seats, will be more likely to know and care about Winnipeg, Victoria, Calgary and Edmonton than they do about Charleston, Hartford, Charlotte, or Chester. 

As a proud prairie stubble jumper its very easy for me to cheer against, tree huggin Pacific, phoney cowboy Calgary, any team close to TO and a bunch of kitchen drinking, eyes the bye boys from Halifax. 😉  I dont even know what state (or country) Chester is in.  As proud CDNs, we hate each other because we know each other.  I can barely get my blood pressure up over Charleston or Hartford.  If Ottawa joins the CPL and their mascot is a politician type with a big head and perfect hair they will instantly become everyones most hated rival.  

[Gopherbashi]

10 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

This is total speculation but I wonder if OSEG has indicated to the CSA that they’d rather fold than go to CPL and the CSA is reluctant to push one of our few pro teams over the cliff via sanctioning - particularly if they’re not prepared to do the same to TFC 2 et al. Does OSEG control the stadium even without Fury as a tenant? Can a CPL team play there if the Fury fold?

If OSEG folds Fury and someone else wants to give OSEG money to rent their facility, I don't see why OSEG would turn them down.

Sure, there's business egos involved, but there's also business plain and simple.

[Ansem]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:18 PM, Gopherbashi said:

If OSEG folds Fury and someone else wants to give OSEG money to rent their facility, I don't see why OSEG would turn them down.

Sure, there's business egos involved, but there's also business plain and simple.

The city wouldn't appreciate them turning down extra revenue when they can't even meet their obligations to the city as it is.

But hey, Fury is too big for CPL. I mean, choosing to play Bethlehem or CONCACAF League with a realistic shot at Champions League,

I WANT MY BETHLEHEM!!!!!!

Edited August 3, 2019 by Ansem

[Initial B]

Look, I understand the emotion here, but remember that OSEG is running as a business. I've talked to them at various Fury events and they say that they'll join CanPL if forced to, but if CanPL fails then the Fury will fold as apparently they can't go back to USL. CanPL survival should not hinge on whether or not the Fury joins CanPL. As I said in another thread, I'm betting that the Fury will Join CanPL in 2022 after 5 years in USL and 3 years of CanPL growth. At that point I can't see why they wouldn't.

As for the other team that have been mentioned. CPL doesn't want TFCII, and there is no way TFCII will be joining L1O as they previously had TFCIII playing in that league and pulled it out to join the USSF Academy development league. Thunder Bay Chill is another one that due to it's geographic location will probably stay in USL League 2 for the time being since St Louis is still closer than Toronto or Edmonton.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Initial B

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Initial B said:

CanPL survival should not hinge on whether or not the Fury joins CanPL.

I think this is a case of, if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Like if Toronto got an NFL team, you could say CFL survival should not hinge on whether or not the Argos stay. Then say Montreal gets an NFL team, you could say CFL survival should not hinge on whether or not the Allouettes stay. Then Saskatchewan gets an NFL team, you get the idea.

Any given team, sure. But with so few teams it only takes a couple to leave for the league to potentially collapse. Much like the NASL recently did a year after Ottawa, Tampa Bay and Minnesota left.

[ted]

3 hours ago, Initial B said:

CanPL survival should not hinge on whether or not the Fury joins CanPL.

Who thinks that at this point?!? If CanPL survival was that fragile I would be totally understanding of OSEG's position.

IMO it is about the best interests of the club at this point. Playing in the USL system going forward is simply a bad business decision. 

[BrennanFan]

1 hour ago, ted said:

Who thinks that at this point?!? If CanPL survival was that fragile I would be totally understanding of OSEG's position.

IMO it is about the best interests of the club at this point. Playing in the USL system going forward is simply a bad business decision. 

Yes, but according to certain rumours, the Fury staying in the USL is good for certain people within the club who have long term front office contracts.

CPL having a front office salary cap may be the real problem behind the scenes.

[ted]

4 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Yes, but according to certain rumours, the Fury staying in the USL is good for certain people within the club who have long term front office contracts.

If that is true then OSEG are incompetent and have no business running a lemonade stand. How can they not find a way to satisfy whatever (as yet unproven) admin salary caps of the CanPL within an organization that encompasses three sports teams? Creative accounting and shared services should be able to satisfy the limit no matter what they actually spend. 

[Cheeta]

Load of rubbish.  If the Fury want to sink dollars into admin does anyone really think CPL HQ gives a damn?  So long as none of the names attached to those admin salaries is ever on a game day roster who cares?  Knock yourself out.

It's a diversion.  There are other issues wedging the two parties apart, ones the CPL cares enough about to not make accommodations. 

You know, like how much of a loaned players salary counts against the cap.  Could see THAT being a serious sticking point for all concerned.

[Bison44]

So whats the problem?? Watching Ottawa tonight (no Ivory thank christ), they are starting 6 CDN, they only have 5 foreign player in the 18, so far so good.  Too many loans??  Salary too much??  I cant see how it would be that different that they cant make some sort of exemption for Ottawa for the first season or two so they can keep their lineup (as much as any team does).  Front office salary?? Please, its like people are looking for stumbling blocks instead of looking for solutions.    

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

So whats the problem?? Watching Ottawa tonight (no Ivory thank christ), they are starting 6 CDN, they only have 5 foreign player in the 18, so far so good.  Too many loans??  Salary too much??  I cant see how it would be that different that they cant make some sort of exemption for Ottawa for the first season or two so they can keep their lineup (as much as any team does).  Front office salary?? Please, its like people are looking for stumbling blocks instead of looking for solutions.    

They did make an exemption.  Ottawa said no.

[BuzzAndSting]

7 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Yes, but according to certain rumours, the Fury staying in the USL is good for certain people within the club who have long term front office contracts.

CPL having a front office salary cap may be the real problem behind the scenes.

There’s no front office salary cap. There’s a coaching staff salary cap and I assume you’re talking about JDG and theoretically he wouldn’t be counted in that because he’s not part of the Fury coaching staff.

[Aird25]

I'm sick of the Fury, and I'd gladly welcome another group in Ottawa. I do feel for their fans though; kept in the dark and left to fumble for a valid defense of their club with nothing of truth and substance to build from. I get that OSEG has a strangle hold on the market, but fans do hold power. You have to wonder what they would choose if given a say. 

[Ansem]

There's that too as Rollins would say 

 

[BuzzAndSting]

Larsen referred to it as a coaching staff salary cap and now it seems to have morphed into an “admin” salary cap? It would be nice if we knew what it actually was.

[Bison44]

It doesnt matter what it is. there is no way that is the real stumbling block.  Someone's salary off the field??  A GM, a head scout, waterboy, assistant goalkeeper coach, how can that be something that cant be worked out??  That is very frustrating.