Ottawa CPL Club

[Ansem]

7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like the Fury are going to fight it through legal proceedings:

https://ottawasun.com/sports/soccer/mls/ottawa-fury-fc/fury-fc-fighting-for-its-survival-after-concacaf-ruling

Good luck...  not liking their chances at all

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ansem

[SuperCanuck]

CONCACRAP should have made this decision immediately after Ottawa decided to stay in USL.  Although I do feel bad for the supporters of Ottawa, I have no sympathy for OSEG, since they (from what I understand) bailed on the C. Premier League at the last minute.  They've dug themselves into a pretty deep hole.  

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If it goes the same way the League of Wales did where clubs like Newport and Merthyr were concerned the Fury will be fine and Victor Montagliani is on record using that analogy to describe the new league. UEFA and FIFA allowed clubs already in the lower portions of the English system to be grandfathered in, so there is a precedent for the Fury to be treated that way as well.

Edited December 13, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ansem]

Been thinking about this...

Pffff....

Didn't see that coming... 

Take a second to think about about it... that's actually such a cold move when you analyze all that it implies...

1.That was most likely a coordinated and calculated move by all parties involved:

CONCACAF disliking cross-border leagues

CSA not wanting it's pyramid fractured and having their hands tied by the Fury

CPL not wanting to be shut out of Ottawa.

2.Fury has most likely no recourse against CONCACAF decisions. I remember reading in the Globe and Mail that although the CSA was capable of doing this, they were hoping CONCACAF would pull the trigger for them.

3. OSEG has an exclusivity agreement on soccer operations at TD place with the city. Originally, they almost got a city-wide soccer operation exclusivity deal but the city backtracked on that. This means that if the Fury don't play in CPL or L10, that agreement would be voided. 

4. Leading to CPL awarding a Ottawa club to whoever they want AND be able to play out of TD Place if the Fury doesn't join CPL. The stadium being city owned means that there's absolutely no way the city would deny itself extra rent.

5. Like I said... I'm surprised...that's a cold move... 

[C2SKI]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If it goes the same way the League of Wales did where clubs like Newport and Merthyr were concerned the Fury will be fine and Victor Montagliani is on record using that analogy to describe the new league. UEFA and FIFA allowed clubs already in the lower portions of the English system to be grandfathered in.

Do you think Ottawa wants to permanently stay in USL? They can never be promoted. 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If it goes the same way the League of Wales did where clubs like Newport and Merthyr were concerned the Fury will be fine and Victor Montagliani is on record using that analogy to describe the new league. UEFA and FIFA allowed clubs already in the lower portions of the English system to be grandfathered in, so there is a precedent for the Fury to be treated that way as well.

Sorry but I think FIFA will support CONCACAF decision here as they have the same philosophy on the matter bare a few extremely rare exceptions.

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

FIFA over-ruled the Asian confederation where Wellington's participation in Australia's league is concerned, so time will tell. 

[BuzzAndSting]

57 minutes ago, Protega said:

As a STH, I do want Fury to join CPL, but would prefer that it is delayed until we know it will be viable. 

I've heard this floated by a bunch of soccer fans in Ottawa and I'm genuinely curious, what circumstances would have to occur for OSEG to consider the league viable in your opinion.

59 minutes ago, Protega said:

But after this decision (which I'm sure is being driven by the CSA behind the scenes like the weasels they are), I will never watch a CPL game if it turns out CSA's plan is to get rid of the Fury to try and make room for someone else.

The CSA gave the Fury sanctioning for 2019 a couple months ago, you believe they then told CONCACAF to act as the bad guy and deny sanctioning now? And because of that you're never going to watch a CPL match because why? The league orchestrated all of this? Or you want to punish the CPL owners? The ones responsible for arguably the greatest footballing initiative this country has ever seen,

 

[xabuep2]

3 hours ago, Grandbloke said:

There is no suitable Canadian league for the Canadian MLS teams to play in. They are much too strong for CanPL.

It means in the future, when the CPL is strong enough , Impact de Montreal , Toronto FC and The Whitecaps will be forced to leave MLS too ?

[shamrock]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Looks like the Fury are going to fight it through legal proceedings:

https://ottawasun.com/sports/soccer/mls/ottawa-fury-fc/fury-fc-fighting-for-its-survival-after-concacaf-ruling

Good luck with that. It might get them a years delay, but I think they'd have a hard case convincing a judge why they should be playing in USL over CSL. 

[Alex D]

19 minutes ago, xabuep2 said:

It means in the future, when the CPL is strong enough , Impact de Montreal , Toronto FC and The Whitecaps will be forced to leave MLS too ?

Theoretically, if this goes to court and is ruled in CONCACAF's favour, anything is possible. 

[dbailey62]

25 minutes ago, xabuep2 said:

It means in the future, when the CPL is strong enough , Impact de Montreal , Toronto FC and The Whitecaps will be forced to leave MLS too ?

Change "when" to a mighty big "IF". It's like saying "when" the League of Wales is as good as the Premiership, will Swansea and Cardiff City be forced to move?

Granted, that example is extreme as CPL will not be that much weaker than MLS but in Canada, it will come down to commercial viability. With TFC drawing 27k per match, would you really want it to join a league averaging less than 8k per match?

It would be cutting off one's nose to spite the face!

USL and CPL will be comparable thus making this current scenario feasible and realistic!

 

[Alex D]

3 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Granted, that example is extreme as CPL will not be that much weaker than MLS but in Canada, it will come down to commercial viability. With TFC drawing 27k per match, would you really want it to join a league averaging less than 8k per match?

Absolutely! Without the big three the CPL will be punching against a glass ceiling. Adding those teams to the CPL would raise the legitimacey of the league and unleash the game across the country. 

[dyslexic nam]

7 hours ago, WheatsheafSK said:

I know exactly what he is saying.  I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of the argument.  We need a Canadian league - oh but some teams are too precious to touch. Why set to create the strongest league? Obviously many CanPL boosters here and some gleeful for the demise of the Fury - but why only target the Fury? This is a league that has to start strong.  I still remember the CSL (the real one) and its success or lack there of. Instead, people hear accept the argument that three teams are golden eggs and cannot be touched, but it is okay to screw over another team that has supported Canadian soccer.

 

I get that you are pissed, but you are completely misrepresenting my position.  It isn't about protecting a few "precious" teams and screw Fury. It is about the quality of the league's they play in.  

The player signings so far and rumoured budgets put CPL roughly on par with USL.  That means that the justification or "exceptional circumstances" to sanction the Fury playing in a US league no longer exist.  

In the case of MLS, the expected league is nowhere near close to equivalent.  The budgets and player signings are an order of magnitude different.  Thus the exceptional circumstances still exist to sanction their participation.

And for the record, if CPL grew to the point where it was roughly equivalent to MLS, I would expect (and support) a similar move being applied to the big 3.

Edited December 13, 2018 by dyslexic nam

[1996]

6 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Talk of a Super League has been going on for decades.  Decades.  You'll grow older and older waiting for it to happen.

No one is stopping all the money in the world from putting together a super league in Europe.  No one.  Go ahead, knock yourself out, spend your money any way you want.  Just keep in mind when you're out looking for the skilled labour to build your sports entertainment enterprise around that the Big Dog in the market, FIFA, isn't inclined to, and is within it's rights to, not allowing players/coaches/officials who participating in non sanctioned ventures from participating in sanctioned FIFA ventures, like the EUROs and the World Cup.

Otherwise we'd have seen that super league 20+ years ago, yet here we are, still waiting.

 

I’m not saying it’s happening tomorrow maybe not in my lifetime but it will happen,  I lived about 25 years or so of my life without the internet or cell phones or smart phones etc all that did not exist for that many years of my life and then look at it now , things change and a Super League will happen .

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

This appears to have come out of the blue for the Fury, if they were handing out three year deals to players last week presumably at the higher sort of budget that doesn't fit CanPL's salary cap:

If three Canadian teams can still operate in MLS, and TFC II can still be sanctioned at USL League One level along with 5 USL League Two level teams (presumably given the lack of similar angst elsewhere?), it requires intellectual contortions to justify only targeting the Fury on this when they are an affiliate of the Impact and hence also can claim a reserve team sort of function. Not completely convinced that the CSA are in cahoots with CONCACAF on this given the timing. Certainly possible but worth noting that they ditched Victor Montagliani's national team coach hire not longer after he left, so it's not safe to assume that all of Victor Montagliani's other initiatives are still viewed the same way now that he has moved on. The CSA are also actively collaborating with the USSF on the 2026 World Cup hosting making amicable cross-border ties the norm again on the surface at least. Looks like an attempt to strong arm the Fury into CanPL by 2020 that was never expected to surface into the public domain as they were expected to meekly comply in exchange for being allowed to proceed in USL in 2019.

Edited December 13, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[dyslexic nam]

I suspect there are a couple of reasons why this was specifically done by CONCACAF and specifically to the Fury.

- they wanted to assert that they, as a governing body, have the authority to make this sort of decision regarding soccer leagues in the region.

- they wanted to establish the de-sanctioning precedent and rationale in a context/league that doesn't have the financial clout of MLS and Liga MX.  

There have been rumblings of some MLS teams (e.g. Galaxy) seeking to join Liga MX because it is a richer league.  This sort of mercenary league hopping is probably not something the regional confederation wants, as opposed to strong, stable domestic leagues and teams "playing where they should".  So instead of having US teams playing in the Mexican league (when there is a roughly equivalent US domestic league) and Canadian teams playing in an American league (when there is now a roughly equivalent Canadian domestic league) they have drawn a line in the sand.  Not saying the timing couldn't be better, but to be honest we don't really know what has been communicated to this point.  And things like 3 year USL player contracts don't prove anything because that could easily be the Fury's way of (apparently nsuccessfully) signalling that they weren't going to be pushed around.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The Fury also seemed to make a public point of JDG getting a three year deal recently (probably also quite lucrative relative to the cap CanPL has):

https://ottawasun.com/sports/soccer/mls/ottawa-fury-fc/gm-de-guzman-signs-three-year-deal-is-confident-hell-find-players-to-bring-fury-success

while not paying lip service to the CanPL project when discussing future plans as they have tended to do previously in recent years.

Guess there was the post-2026 Mex-Am-Can superleague thing floated recently so you may have a point about the wider context in CONCACAF terms.

Edited December 13, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Cheeta]

Shrug. 

Anyone remember when the rumors started about CONCACAF becoming concerned about cross border leagues and the hostility towards the concept?  Have it in my head that it was really early in the year.  Late spring maybe? 

So, Ottawa went through negotiations with CPL and signings and bet on USL being there best option going forward.  Sound right?

Hope the didn't buy a shit pile of Bitcoins earlier this spring either.

[Ottawafan74]

Complete dick move by CONCACAF. 

[ray]

The writing appears to be on the wall for the Fury.  Whether it was CONCACAF pulling the plug for 2019 or the CSA in 2020, sanctioning to play in a U.S. league was going to be withdrawn.  They should have been working with CPL to transition for next year.  Instead Ottawa thought they would be able to push their luck indefinitely.  Now the team finds matters out of their hands.  They can continue to fight a losing cause or they can try to patch things up with the CPL - their choice.

[Ansem]

5 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

With TFC drawing 27k per match, would you really want it to join a league averaging less than 8k per match?

But would they really lose attendance?

[shamrock]

The fundamental difference between the Fury and the three MLS clubs is that Ottawa is an actual "club" that could potential play in different leagues. The MLS teams are basically part-owners of the league, which surely makes it a lot harder to force to leave cet league (and at what price? TFC bought their way into MLS with 10 mil, the newer "clubs" paid tenfold that amount. )

Edited December 13, 2018 by shamrock

[Ansem]

12 minutes ago, shamrock said:

The fundamental difference between the Fury and the three MLS clubs is that Ottawa is an actual "club" that could potential play in different leagues. The MLS teams are basically part-owners of the league, which surely makes it a lot harder to force to leave cet league (and at what price? TFC bought their way into MLS with 10 mil, the newer "clubs" paid tenfold that amount. )

My understanding of MLS is that the big 3 would have to sell their franchise back to MLS or another owner or whatever they have in their contract as an exit clause. I would imagine that there would be some unique clause due to the fact that they are Canadians and sanctioned by a foreign body.

Then those 3 could join CPL under a rebrand unless they had some way to retain their name and IP. 

[Initial B]

I woke up this morning and had no clue this was happenening until I heard about it as the lead sports item on the local radio on my drive to work. This is big news here.

I am beyond furious that Montagliani would be such a dick and chose this ham-fisted approach to dealing with Ottawa. This strikes me as the petty reaction of a butt-hurt suitor who commits violence on the potential date who turned him down for the Prom. I thought he was better than that. Do you really think that the CPL can't survive two seasons without the Fury!? NOBODY likes being told what to do, especially when it isn't fair. You can't do this to the Fury and not to the other Canadian clubs that don't play in the CPL. You can bet that the MLS clubs will be giving under the table support to the Fury as they try to legally fight this, as the precedent is sets is staggering.

That said, I do want the Fury to join CPL eventually, and I feel they have a plan to do so, as soon as they get paid their portion of the upcoming expansion fees from the new USL clubs. Monty is screwing with their business and may end up costing Canadian Soccer in the long run.

And for those of you who are crowing about the Fury "getting theirs", we Ottawa fans would NEVER do that to any of your clubs. You should be ashamed of yourselves. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Initial B