Ottawa CPL Club

[Ansem]

20 minutes ago, ray said:

The writing appears to be on the wall for the Fury.  Whether it was CONCACAF pulling the plug for 2019 or the CSA in 2020, sanctioning to play in a U.S. league was going to be withdrawn.  They should have been working with CPL to transition for next year.  Instead Ottawa thought they would be able to push their luck indefinitely.  Now the team finds matters out of their hands.  They can continue to fight a losing cause or they can try to patch things up with the CPL - their choice.

The timing is intriguing though.

This decision, if enforced to the bitter end really screws up Ottawa Fury

1. They wouldn't be able to play in USL.

2. I'm not convinced they can make the 2019 CPL season, especially if they are stubborn enough to fight CONCACAF decision

3.Joining L10 makes no business sense

4.No Canadian Championship 

5.This is where I think this was a coordinated move... OSEG has an exclusivity clause on TD Place for soccer operations. They had seek initially a city-wide soccer clause but the city backtracked on that. If the Fury does indeed sit this year out, I think this would void that clause. 

This would allowed CPL to effectively pick and choose it's preferred ownership for Ottawa and they could play from TD Place as the city won't turn down rent if OSEG isn't putting a team there. This forces OSEG:

-Accept the decision and fix things with CPL to get awarded a club

-Fight the decision, sit the year out and be forced to sell to someone else or fold.

Ouch... talk about overplaying your hand big time

[Rattler280]

Bush league move by CONCACAF, but I'm not too worried. I like Ottawa's chances in court here and there's precedent supporting their claim. After all this nonsense settles down I'm sure they'll have another solid year or two in the USL before jumping over when they're ready.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

I am beyond furious that Montagliani would be such a dick and chose this ham-fisted approach to dealing with Ottawa. This strikes me as the petty reaction of a butt-hurt suitor who commits violence on the potential date who turned him down for the Prom. I thought he was better than that. 

I thought that Ottawa Fury going rogue on the media by blindsiding both the CSA and CPL about their intentions to

-Not join CPL while bashing the league somewhat

-their intentions to continue in USL while praising it without being awarded the CSA sanction in advance, trying to force their hand...

To me, that was a double dick move

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Do you really think that the CPL can't survive two seasons without the Fury!? NOBODY likes being told what to do, especially when it isn't fair.

There lies the problem. The Fury never said how long it would take them to join, nor if they ever had the intention to join. They seemed confident that they would be extended the same treatment the MLS teams enjoy. They just got told they were wrong.

There was no way that CPL was going to turn down potential investors and sit out of Ottawa hoping that one day they'd come around. That's not how you do business and with what they pulled earlier, not sure they are feeling OSEG.

We all know that the city isn't big enough for 2 teams.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

You can't do this to the Fury and not to the other Canadian clubs that don't play in the CPL. You can bet that the MLS clubs will be giving under the table support to the Fury as they try to legally fight this, as the precedent is sets is staggering.

The MLS clubs can argue that CPL isn't equivalent to MLS. The Fury can't make that case in regards to USL

It's been done before when OSA revoked sanctioning for Ontario clubs in PDL. Sanctioning bodies always had the power to enforce such decisions, this is the same here.

Going to court won't work. Sanction is a privilege, not a right. Fighting this on court will just ensure that they will dig themselves a deeper hole. That makes them unattractive to CPL who could just move on to another group which could play from TD Place if OSEG doesn't field a soccer team there. The stadium is city owned and they won't turn down rent.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

That said, I do want the Fury to join CPL eventually, and I feel they have a plan to do so, as soon as they get paid their portion of the upcoming expansion fees from the new USL clubs. Monty is screwing with their business and may end up costing Canadian Soccer in the long run.

This further proves how badly the Fury handled this. They should have to informed both CSA and CPL of their decision, not blindside both in the media.

They should have provided a hard date to join CPL, not floating the word "maybe" while praising USL and somewhat bashing CPL.

If they had a plan, they should have handled it better.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ansem

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, Rattler280 said:

Bush league move by CONCACAF, but I'm not too worried. I like Ottawa's chances in court here and there's precedent supporting their claim. After all this nonsense settles down I'm sure they'll have another solid year or two in the USL before jumping over when they're ready.

That's not how business works. It's news to me that the Ottawa Fury are somehow bigger than Canadian soccer. Good that they've been put in their place.

Their legal chances are slim at best.

[BuzzAndSting]

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

5.This is where I think this was a coordinated move... OSEG has an exclusivity clause on TD Place for soccer operations. They had seek initially a city-wide soccer clause but the city backtracked on that. If the Fury does indeed sit this year out, I think this would void that clause. 

Where is this info stated? I’ve never seen the details of when exclusivity is voided.

[ray]

16 minutes ago, Initial B said:

 This strikes me as the petty reaction of a butt-hurt suitor who commits violence on the potential date who turned him down for the Prom. Do you really think that the CPL can't survive two seasons without the Fury!?

A few points:

1. For the inaugural season of a league yes, every franchise matters for stability, resilience, perception, corporate sponsorship, broadcast contracts, etcetera.
2. I don't think it comes to this heavy-handedness by CONCACAF (with perhaps CSA's involvement) if the Fury is talking with CPL and communicating a willingness to join CPL in 2020.  The fact that we are at this point is a good indication OSEG were planning on stretching year-by-year USL sanctioning out for years to come.
3. While I have sympathy for Fury fans, I have none for OSEG.  Ownership knew de-sanctioning was a strong possibility but they thought they held all the cards.

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Where is this info stated? I’ve never seen the details of when exclusivity is voided.

It's similar to what happened in Hamilton. The city wanted to attract other teams (soccer) to the stadium because there was no soccer being played there. Tigers Cats had the same type of deal as OSEG on soccer operations. The CSA had to step in and declare that no team would be sanctioned except Forge.

That's where my assumption is coming from. If the Fury doesn't play at TD place, it frees up dates which the city who owns the stadium and collect rent will want to fill. 

This is an opportunity for CPL to pick an owner, award them a team and play at TD Place unless OSEG drop their legal fight and get in rank. This move effectively leaves the Fury with no where to play and if CPL doesn't take them in for 2019, then expect possibility that the league will pick someone else while provoking a void on OSEG clause on soccer operations at TD.

Cold move... but I kept saying it over and over... CPL ownership are businesse people who didn't became rich by being "nice". MLS wouldn't have done anything less than this

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ansem

[Cheeta]

LOL.  Ottawa should just accept the inevitable, do what they need to do to get into the CPL for next season and BRING THE FURY!!!

You want a piece of this!?  You want a piece of this!?  You've bitten off more than you can chew CPL!!  

BOOM!!!

[BrennanFan]

I don't think OSEG has the first clue about how to fight the decision "legally". Will they try to file papers at the local court house? LOL.

Taking this matter to the FIFA Tribunal, FIFA Appeals Tribunal and the Court of Arbitration for Sport is a process that takes about a year. I hope they know a Swiss lawyer.

They won't get a resolution before the USL season begins. No way. Win or lose, it's already over for the Fury.

 

[baulderdash77]

Unfortunately for Ottawa this was always a possibility, even a strong possibility.  They overplayed their hand and lost.

 

Instead of fighting in court they should try and be nimble and make a deal with the CPL because the season starts pretty soon.

Also for the CPL it will be incumbent on them to be nimble too and perhaps make exceptional circumstance rules to accept any contracts that Ottawa has and accommodate them.

There is time but if it drags for months then there will be no time.

[BillyBob]

American here.

From international soccer fan perspective, yeah Concacaf has authority to de sanction because they want to enforce standard rules.

 

BUT from a biz perspective it seems odd. There's been no OFFICIAL mention of desanctioning threat before. Not that I can remember. 

 

PR wise it's a bad look. If concacaf was that serious about it, they should have nipped this in the bud TWO YEARS AGO. Giving the Fury time to adjust.

Also while this is soccer, this is the North American market. Organizations arent just going to fall in line with FIFA rules "just because". The Fury rightly need to know if they are going to be stable in this new league and the new league will pan out. Peoples livelihoods are at stake after all.

This is not going to encourage MLSE, Saputo or The Caps to listen to CSA either down the road and that ALREADY was to be a long winding road.

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, BillyBob said:

BUT from a biz perspective it seems odd. There's been no OFFICIAL mention of desanctioning threat before. Not that I can remember. 

There's precedent, the OSA kicked the Ontario teams from PDL almost right before the start of the PDL season if I recall. That's the sanctioning body prerogative 

7 minutes ago, BillyBob said:

PR wise it's a bad look. If concacaf was that serious about it, they should have nipped this in the bud TWO YEARS AGO. Giving the Fury time to adjust.

The CSA and CPL were talking to the Fury the entire time and were blindsided publicly by them when they announced that they were staying in USL without giving any notice to CPL and without telling the CSA who had not renewed their sanction. Up until September, everything pointed to the Fury joining...so CONCACAF deciding 3 months later to rule is more than adequate 

They overplayed their hand

10 minutes ago, BillyBob said:

Also while this is soccer, this is the North American market. Organizations arent just going to fall in line with FIFA rules "just because". The Fury rightly need to know if they are going to be stable in this new league and the new league will pan out. Peoples livelihoods are at stake after all.

North America or not, FIFA holds all the cards. I know Americans aren't used to that but you have to start wrap your head around the concept.

11 minutes ago, BillyBob said:

This is not going to encourage MLSE, Saputo or The Caps to listen to CSA either down the road and that ALREADY was to be a long winding road.

What's the alternative? They are sanctioned by the CSA and are in MLS because the CSA allows it.

[shamrock]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

My understanding of MLS is that the big 3 would have to sell their franchise back to MLS or another owner or whatever they have in their contract as an exit clause. I would imagine that there would be some unique clause due to the fact that they are Canadians and sanctioned by a foreign body.

Then those 3 could join CPL under a rebrand unless they had some way to retain their name and IP. 

Yes they can but the post was that it will be hard to force them to do that. The Fury doesn't have to sell anything to jump leagues. 

[Ansem]

 

[KW519]

OSEG had to know this was a strong possibility this whole time. Try for the USL tv money, if not fall back to our plan b - The CPL. That would explain their current roster (not wanting to commit a bunch of money to guys before they know what league they'll be playing in). Either stay in USL and cash out, or play the victim when the likely de sanctioning occurs and get the community to rally behind the club and increase overall support heading into the CPL. Win win for OSEG imo - two roads with gold at the end, one just longer than the other.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

There is already so many leagues and teams fighting against each other in North America. It is so crappy that CONCACAF has started another fight. I have seen so many people already blame this on the CPL. Good luck getting a CPL team in Ottawa any time soon. Thanks CONCACAF.

[BillyBob]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

There's precedent, the OSA kicked the Ontario teams from PDL almost right before the start of the PDL season if I recall. That's the sanctioning body prerogative 

The CSA and CPL were talking to the Fury the entire time and were blindsided publicly by them when they announced that they were staying in USL without giving any notice to CPL and without telling the CSA who had not renewed their sanction. Up until September, everything pointed to the Fury joining...so CONCACAF deciding 3 months later to rule is more than adequate 

They overplayed their hand

North America or not, FIFA holds all the cards. I know Americans aren't used to that but you have to start wrap your head around the concept.

What's the alternative? They are sanctioned by the CSA and are in MLS because the CSA allows it.

Ok, I see your point about the CSA precedent.

About them FIFA rules though, here in America we've been breaking them since before MLS even started. They've largely left our single entity and lack of pro-rel and solidarity payments alone. 

Why? Who knows but I think its telling that we've done our own thing for THIS long and not get called out on it. 

[Keegan]

Sober second thoughts: this was totally needed and deserved + for Ottawa this is a BEST CASE.

1) Ottawa are being complete pricks and taking advantage of CSA goodwill trotting our 3 year contracts etc. Even as the most hardcore Fury fan you would need to admit this is a bullshit tongue in your face move. Why did they do this? This was Ottawa playing bully to CPL.

2) They did this because  they thought the CSA wouldn’t do anything because of Pugh etc. and the optics. Let’s be real.. the CSA typically wouldn’t have balls to do this (and they didn’t). 

3) They have NO REASON to be in USL, they are literally just being pricks and taking this attitude that they’re at some premier level of play over CPL.  This is horrible for business when you have a team most of the country has never heard of posturing themselves as BIGGER than the national league.  Again, even as a Fury fan you would have to see this as a classless move akin to playing with fire.

 

Ottawa played stupid games, pushed their luck and now the hammer is coming down.  They will be allowed to play in USL 2019 so everyone calm down but they need to stop their bullshit with the teasing that they’re never coming to CPL and acting like they’re staying in USL.  We live in a world where people play victim for being asked to follow the law.. that is what Ottawa is doing here - cry me a river.  Fans should be pissed at OSEG for poking the bear.

How is this move bad for Ottawa?

Attendance is 4800 — CPL teams are on pace for similar or better crowds.

You have a higher salary (supposedly) - okay, and CPL has agreed to let you keep those deals. 

There is no reason for Ottawa to be in USL and there is doubly no reason for them to be hostile toward CPL.  Well deserved.

edit: what if OSEG was in on this? They would be smart to be but I feel they aren’t that clever... why not fake outrage?  That way you act like you’re being forced and not abandoning USL by choice - so if CPL fails as Ottawa seems to constantly allude to they should be allowed back in USL with no hard feelings.

 

Is this not a win in all ways for Ottawa?

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Keegan

[Keegan]

4 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

There is already so many leagues and teams fighting against each other in North America. It is so crappy that CONCACAF has started another fight. I have seen so many people already blame this on the CPL. Good luck getting a CPL team in Ottawa any time soon. Thanks CONCACAF.

Why would they need luck? Lol

If OSEG wants to go away there will be another ownership group taking their place.  

 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, BillyBob said:

Ok, I see your point about the CSA precedent.

About them FIFA rules though, here in America we've been breaking them since before MLS even started. They've largely left our single entity and lack of pro-rel and solidarity payments alone. 

Why? Who knows but I think its telling that we've done our own thing for THIS long and not get called out on it. 

They left MLS alone because it was actually successful in getting a sustainable pro soccer league in one of the richest untapped markets in the world.  Growing the game in the US has been a major objective for decades, so turning a bit of a blind eye to MLS's idiosyncrasies is not that surprising.  

[Fullback]

I feel absolutely no sympathy for the club and maybe some of the fans. 

This whole if it’s viable then maybe we’ll join thing really ticks me off. They’ll let others do the leg work and really try and change the sport in Canada, while Ottawa sits on the side trying to figure out if it’s worth it? Nah fuck that! For a team that spouts nonsense about how much they care about Canadian soccer, they need to actually prove it.

Since the CPL began I feel Ottawa and it’s fans have been so smug acting like the league is beneath them.

 

Well know what? Rather have the club fold then join?

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Just now, Keegan said:

Why would they need luck? Lol

If OSEG wants to go away there will be another ownership group taking their place.  

 

Because now, all the fans in Ottawa hate the CPL for killing their team... Go read the twitter pages of Ottawa fans. I honestly think the CPL should step in a show their support for the Fury in this. The Fury may not be playing in the CPL, but that may be the only way they might in the future.

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

Not that it is probably a huge issue, but JdG's reputation in Canadian footy circles has to have taken a beating as a result of this.  This is a guy who was in some ways the centrepiece of our team a few years back.  Now, he is positioning himself to be the biggest antagonist in Canadian soccer.  This was a big play by Ottawa and deGuz, and at this point it certainly looks like the gamble failed.

[KW519]

Julian De Guzman does not care about Canadian Football *Kanye West voice*

[Fullback]

1 minute ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Because now, all the fans in Ottawa hate the CPL for killing their team... Go read the twitter pages of Ottawa fans. I honestly think the CPL should step in a show their support for the Fury in this. The Fury may not be playing in the CPL, but that may be the only way they might in the future.

Why should the CPL even care what fans from a team in another league thinks?