Ottawa CPL Club

[WheatsheafSK]

2 hours ago, KW519 said:

Shows how in the know Ottawa fans are if they think the CPL killed their team. 

 

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

Boo hoo for two reasons: 

1) CPL/CSA didn’t make the call

2) You be essentially giving up following football because you don’t like FIFA

It’s that simple. CPL doesn’t have to do anything - in fact, at this point Ottawa should be crawling to them.

Concacaf is not killing a team just because it hates soccer.  CONCACAF is making this decision because of CanPL - presumably to force the Fury to join.  The two are linked that why Fury fans are pissed at the CanPL.  

[baulderdash77]

So if I read this correctly Ottawa, and other Canadian clubs playing in the US, are on a yearly “Exception” that has to be first Approved by the CSA, then the USSA and then finally CONCACAF.

Ottawa had permission from the CSA and received permission from the USSA yesterday.  Before the CSA asked permission from CONCACAF and maybe even before the USSA approval came through, CONCACAF rules that they wouldn’t approve the exception anymore.

I don’t think that Ottawa has any leg to stand on.  Especially if their sanctioning was on a year to year basis.

Any of those 3 organizations could have pulled their sanctioning in any year.

I was a bit more sympathetic and wondering about it but it’s quite clear that Ottawa has 2 choices now- Play in CPL or not play at all.

Edited December 13, 2018 by baulderdash77

[BrennanFan]

2 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

So if I read this correctly Ottawa, and other Canadian clubs playing in the US, are on a yearly “Execption” that has to be first Approved by the CSA, then the USSA and then finally CONCACAF.

Ottawa had permission from the CSA and received permission from the USSA yesterday.  Before the CSA asked permission from CONCACAF and maybe even before the USSA approval came through, CONCACAF rules that they wouldn’t approve the exception anymore.

I don’t think that Ottawa has any leg to stand on.  Especially if their sanctioning was on a year to year basis.

Any of those 3 organizations could have pulled their sanctioning in any year.

I was a bit more sympathetic and wondering about it but it’s quite clear that Ottawa has 2 choices now- Play in CPL or not play at all.

Exactly.  This destroys the narrative that CONCACAF sprung this decision on Ottawa at the last minute.  This was the logical and expected time for the decision to be made, and if anything, CONCACAF was proactive in making their position known.

The Fury knew the CSA's sanctioning was not the last word on the matter.  They gambled and lost.  

[Keegan]

14 minutes ago, WheatsheafSK said:

 

Concacaf is not killing a team just because it hates soccer.  CONCACAF is making this decision because of CanPL - presumably to force the Fury to join.  The two are linked that why Fury fans are pissed at the CanPL.  

So, essentially “damn, we wouldn’t have to follow the rules if not for CPL, therefore let’s hate them”?

I guess that’s logical... 

The argument that the CSA was behind this isn’t going to stand and would be slanderous if pushed.  “It’s not what you know.. it’s what you can prove JAKE!”

Good luck to them. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Keegan

[dyslexic nam]

At the end of the day, I am hoping everyone involved in CPL is amicably approaching Fury management in an effort to make this work - ideally for the 2019 season.  Just like it would be silly of the Fury folks to fight what is likely an inevitable outcome (even if they manage to somehow get a one year approval for status quo play in USL), it would be silly for the CPL to be petty about the Fury's past actions.  Recognizing that personalities can have a big impact, this is ultimately a business decision for all involved, and at this point the best case scenario is that everyone moves on quickly and gets down to the real business of making sure Ottawa is a successful team in a successful CPL.

Ironically, the biggest barrier to this may be the fans who are pinning this whole shitstorm on CPL and threatening to boycott the league come hell or highwater.

[WheatsheafSK]

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

I disagree.. 

I think Ottawa will have MORE fans and be a much bigger club if they move to CPL from the jump.  Look at the other clubs, the hype and fan bases they’re building - Ottawa Fury is boring as hell in comparison. 

Ottawa never started out a culture from the ground up the way CPL clubs have.  They could actually learn a thing or two - they truly are just another “meh” US minor league team.

You are absolutely right.  Fury never took a successful amateur club and raised the bar.  They never play local players.  They never reached out to all development soccer teams across the region.  They never gave away  free tickets to youth players to every single game.  They never created a family friendly atmosphere to foster a connection with the team at a young age.  The Fury never made there players accessible to fans and to young players.   The Fury never made themselves part of the community.  If only these incompetent twits running OSEG who know nothing about grassroots development had followed the example of any other club then they would have been successful.

By the way - that is sarcasm.  Ottawa has a long history of sport failures and finicky fans (Senators are example 1).  After two failed franchises in the CFL, OSEG has made RedBlacks a success. The 67s OHL team has great grassroots support in a town that only focuses on the Senators.  OSEG built a professional soccer team where there no history of professional soccer and took that team to the NASL championship game.  To say anyone can do better is like saying anyone can win LottoMax - some do, vast majority don't.  This is pie in the sky thinking similar to Ansem's Ottawa will just let anyone into TDPlace despite the OSEG contract - it ignores reality.  You may not the Fury, but they have done a great job with what they have, and it is not simply for anyone to walk in a replace them.  

[Viruk42]

 

 

 

So much for that idea, I guess. 

[Keegan]

@WheatsheafSK

I’m not doubting/denying any of those things you listed - which literally every team does.  I just think the CPL is doing things 100x better than Ottawa ever did in terms of building a club and EXCITEMENT. I think the whole process they’ve used speaks to true football fans who may otherwise write off a league like USL is all I’m saying.

I think any football supporter would tell you that.  Ottawa Fury is not an exciting brand... it’s not a brand that inspires sorry.  I’ve supported Ottawa from the start but I’ve never been shocked that the team has been in decline since 2015.. without results what do you have there?  I think CPL is much more in touch with branding, football culture and longevity.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Keegan

[juicy sushi]

Hello all,

First time poster, newly registered, and yes, partly due to the fact this seems to be the only place that people aren't just throwing food at each other over this.

So, I live in Ottawa, and as such, have a bias towards wanting the Fury to be playing where they want, just because, selfishly, I assume they have probably got a decent read on what is going to be sustainable since they're paying for it.  That doesn't mean I am anti-CPL or that I wouldn't like to seem them playing in such a league, if it works, just that I prefer one bird in the hand over two in the bush.

I think that there is a lot of vitriol from all sides of this issue.

Ottawa soccer fans potentially seeing their team killed off by what they perceive as administrative fiat aren't going to be thrilled by the idea.  And will lash out, likely unfairly.  CPL fans don't like a major Canadian team that looked to be a big part of a CPL rejecting them for what seem like selfish reasons that may or may not be true.

But seeing people literally dancing on a club's freshly dug, but not yet occupied grave with a token "I feel for the fans" isn't likely to do anything of any value and generally doesn't lead to anything positive.

I am a CPL-skeptic.  I realize that there is a lot of desire from many people around the country for a legit professional league in Canada.  It would be nice to have one.  But after over a century of opportunities, nothing has actually worked.  These guys say this time will be different.  Maybe it will, and it would be really nice to see that be the case, as quite frankly, in such a depressing world, that kind of success would really brighten my day.  But it hasn't happened yet, and all the assurances that it will from fellow Canadians fans won't make it happen.  I can see how a professional team which has managed to survive for several years, and lived through at least one attempt at a league dying out from underneath them would be particularly skeptical to another league, regardless of their good intentions and talk.  I can see how they would not rely on year one promise, but would like to see how they plan on digging in for the long haul, after the novelty has worn off and fans are being asked to spend money on a league that is visibly inferior to other options they have to watch.

That doesn't mean that they managed things well, and didn't offend people with how they acted.  I don't know the behind the scenes stuff.  I have seen various remarks thrown around on social media lately, but the people involved have been involved in the game in this country for many years and I don't know what may have happened in the past that might have soured their outlooks or relationships before a Canadian Premier League was ever even mooted.

I don't see how CONCACAF delivering administrative rulings from on high helps anything, including their own cause, for many reasons. 

Apologies for rambling, I've just seen a lot of silly fighting over the past 12 hours, none of it looking good, and none of it helpful for soccer in Canada, which is the thing I thought we were all supposed to enjoy?

[WheatsheafSK]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I know a way they could make it work legally and we could save the Fury.. but it involves a relocation to Buffalo. 

I think your geography is off.  Buffalo is for when TorontoFC is forced to relocate.  For the Fury it would be to Syracus or Canton - maybe Lake Placid.  

[dyslexic nam]

14 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

 

 

 

So much for that idea, I guess. 

And that is in line with the statement I quoted a page or two ago:

"In the event that CONCACAF does not immediately reconsider its position, Fury FC will take all steps — including legal proceedings — so as to ensure that it will be able to continue providing soccer to our loyal and new fans and supporters in a league of our choosing.” 

Fury want to unilaterally decide which league they play in.  That ignores the fact that they are sanctioned to play in a US league due to exceptional circumstances (that no longer exist).  The simple fact is that they are not entitled to play in USL - they were permitted to play there as  a concession to the fact that there was no viable alternative in Canada.  

[Keegan]

The whole victim card is just so overblown.. here is the simple truth:

1) you get to keep all your players

2) USL can’t be mad at you so even if CPL fails you can go back 

3) you may actually win 

4) you have derbies and increased national interest 

Relax this should be amazing news to the team.  And now we hear that if CONCACAF asked Fury to commit to 2020 CPL they would say no.  Take a hike. If anything this has exposed Ottawa’s true intentions for all to see.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Keegan

[WheatsheafSK]

54 minutes ago, masster said:

Who says they get any expansion fees? Has this been confirmed? USL expansion fees used to go to the owners of the league only, Nurock or Nike or whoever it was. 

At the time of Ottawa's move to the USL it was mentioned that the team had to pay $2M expansion fee, and that this was better than the losses they would have suffered staying in the NASL. 

[Keegan]

Another thing to consider is that the CSA already said years ago they wouldn’t be sanctioning US teams anymore.  So how could Ottawa be so ignorant to think that with that fact and a new Canadian league they were going to stay in USL forever?

[BrennanFan]

12 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

 

 

 

So much for that idea, I guess. 

 

My theory is that since September, it became clear to everyone involved that OSEG was never going to join the CPL, not in 2020, not ever.  

Thus, the only way a CPL team was going to exist in Ottawa was if the Fury died.  And here we are.  I don't think this move by Concacaf was to force the Ottawa Fury to move to the CPL.  It was to kill the Ottawa Fury and clear a path for a new CPL club to establish itself and begin operating as of 2020.

As much as this hurts the fans of the Fury and the employees of OSEG, this is the best way forward for the development of Canadian soccer in the Ottawa area.  This makes the CPL stronger which makes Canadian soccer as whole stronger. 

 

[WheatsheafSK]

Just now, Keegan said:

Another thing to consider is that the CSA already said years ago they wouldn’t be sanctioning US teams anymore.  So how could Ottawa be so ignorant to think that with that fact and a new Canadian league they were going to stay in USL forever?

You realize this contradicts your earlier assertion that this was all CONCACAF fault and no blame should be apportioned elsewhere?  Besides CSA sanctioned Fury to play in USL in 2019.  

[masster]

19 minutes ago, juicy sushi said:

Hello all,

First time poster, newly registered, and yes, partly due to the fact this seems to be the only place that people aren't just throwing food at each other over this.

...

Apologies for rambling, I've just seen a lot of silly fighting over the past 12 hours, none of it looking good, and none of it helpful for soccer in Canada, which is the thing I thought we were all supposed to enjoy?

Welcome. Disagree with some, but great first post. Stick around. The quality of discussion will only improve with posters like yourself.

[masster]

10 minutes ago, WheatsheafSK said:

At the time of Ottawa's move to the USL it was mentioned that the team had to pay $2M expansion fee, and that this was better than the losses they would have suffered staying in the NASL. 

Fine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will receive any of the new expansion fees that USL is getting.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, masster said:

Fine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will receive any of the new expansion fees that USL is getting.

Think I saw an article written by Nipun Chopra recently that suggested existing members do get some of the expansion fee money and it's part of how the league keeps its longstanding franchisees on board. Will try to track it down later. 

[juicy sushi]

1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

 

My theory is that since September, it became clear to everyone involved that OSEG was never going to join the CPL, not in 2020, not ever.  

Thus, the only way a CPL team was going to exist in Ottawa was if the Fury died.  And here we are.  I don't think this move by Concacaf was to force the Ottawa Fury to move to the CPL.  It was to kill the Ottawa Fury and clear a path for a new CPL club to establish itself and begin operating as of 2020.

As much as this hurts the fans of the Fury and the employees of OSEG, this is the best way forward for the development of Canadian soccer in the Ottawa area.  This makes the CPL stronger which makes Canadian soccer as whole stronger. 

 

I honestly don't see how this does.  I don't think another professional soccer franchise, playing in a different location, are going to be a bigger success than the Fury have been.  Unless they suddenly can get a lot of free publicity and are an instant winner, I don't see how they would draw more than the Fury.  They wouldn't likely be playing at TD Place, as the City isn't likely to want to force OSEG to let them play there when OSEG have run that facility quite successfully and have the rather successful Red Blacks as the main attraction there.

The Fury in the CPL would help the CPL a lot, but I think that skepticism over their ability to deliver a product is also warranted.  No Canadian league has survived at any time in the last century.  To say this time will be different is all well and good, but if it's your money, I think you'd want more than just blanket assurances.

[masster]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan74 said:

If you get a chance listen to the segment in TSN 1200 that just ran.  They spent 15 minutes talking about it.

Thanks for pointing this out. Here is a direct link to that radio segment with AJ Jakubec who is the play by play man for the Fury. Starts at 21:20
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200-1.1225738

There was also an interview with JDG earlier in the day:
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/de-guzman-concacaf-owes-us-an-explanation-why-we-can-t-play-in-the-usl-1.1225676

The Jakubec interview was good. Obviously slanted to the Fury side of things, but very informative. He takes a shot at this forum, so for that alone, it is worth the listen!!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

...It was to kill the Ottawa Fury and clear a path for a new CPL club to establish itself and begin operating as of 2020.

As much as this hurts the fans of the Fury and the employees of OSEG, this is the best way forward for the development of Canadian soccer in the Ottawa area.  This makes the CPL stronger which makes Canadian soccer as whole stronger.

What would make Canadian soccer stronger as a whole would be a spirit of compromise and consensus building rather than the scorched earth policy you describe.

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, juicy sushi said:

I honestly don't see how this does.  I don't think another professional soccer franchise, playing in a different location, are going to be a bigger success than the Fury have been.  Unless they suddenly can get a lot of free publicity and are an instant winner, I don't see how they would draw more than the Fury.  They wouldn't likely be playing at TD Place, as the City isn't likely to want to force OSEG to let them play there when OSEG have run that facility quite successfully and have the rather successful Red Blacks as the main attraction there.

The Fury in the CPL would help the CPL a lot, but I think that skepticism over their ability to deliver a product is also warranted.  No Canadian league has survived at any time in the last century.  To say this time will be different is all well and good, but if it's your money, I think you'd want more than just blanket assurances.

I thin the point is that some team in Ottawa would help the CPL.  And insofar as the Fury didn't see that in their future, the options were to accept the loss of that market or take strong steps to ensure that the Fury or some other entity are participating in the league. 

As for your other comments about leagues failing, that issue has been discussed a lot on here.  The reality is that the context6 has changed substantially.  We have 3 MLS clubs demonstrating success in realtime.  We also have strong season ticket sales in most CPL markets, and a group of owners that seem to know what they are doing.  In short, I think the confidence that this time may be quite different is well justified.

 

[BrennanFan]

1 minute ago, juicy sushi said:

I honestly don't see how this does.  I don't think another professional soccer franchise, playing in a different location, are going to be a bigger success than the Fury have been.  Unless they suddenly can get a lot of free publicity and are an instant winner, I don't see how they would draw more than the Fury.  They wouldn't likely be playing at TD Place, as the City isn't likely to want to force OSEG to let them play there when OSEG have run that facility quite successfully and have the rather successful Red Blacks as the main attraction there.

The Fury in the CPL would help the CPL a lot, but I think that skepticism over their ability to deliver a product is also warranted.  No Canadian league has survived at any time in the last century.  To say this time will be different is all well and good, but if it's your money, I think you'd want more than just blanket assurances.

I really dislike that view, that the Fury's skepticism was reasonable.  the CPL is the best and only answer for Canadian soccer.  If you love Canadian soccer, you take the risk and fight tooth and nail to make the CPL a success. 

At one point, people thought a Toronto MLS team would not draw more than the Toronto Lynx.  The CPL is a totally different product than the USL Fury and will serve a different crowd, just as the National Team brings a different soccer crowd to BMO field than TFC does. 

The city owns TD Place and the city will want another tenant there in addition to the Red Blacks. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What would make Canadian soccer stronger as a whole would be a spirit of compromise and consensus building rather than the scorched earth policy you describe.

It would be extremely one-sided to overlook the Fury's role in the lack of "compromise and consensus building ".