Grady McDonnell (2008)

[Aird25]

11 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I totally disagree with you. I'm not sure what you mean by finished product but at 16 it was obvious that Davies was special. On the other hand Manneh never looked like much to me. MLS is a very difficult league for young players because it's style of play. If you can physically hang like Davies in certain areas of the field it's pretty impressive. Manneh always looked lost and really only excelled when he found time and space. The only way he ever found time and space was if he neglected other responsibilities on the field

Davies obviously wasn't near a refined product when Whitecaps signed him as he had no pro training, but it was difficult to ignore the potential that he had after a few glimpses of the player. I was lucky enough to see him in Edmonton before moving to the Whitecaps, and that was enough. I haven't seen another player like him at any level in Canada. That being said, I think the Whitecaps did well to nurture the player and bring him through.

[dyslexic nam]

17 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It has something altogether (if that is the opposite of "whatsoever") because the academy signs him, sets him up, plays him. Because he was not signed to play for the first team. It went through the academy people, in their terms. They even found him a girlfriend (gonna get flack for that one, sorry).

It only happened quickly that he was moved into the first team, that is all. 

He was there for 4 months.  The academy did nothing to develop him.  He even toured with the senior team before signing with the academy.   To me that isn’t about the academy. 
 

17 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Why? Or is it just because you say so?

It's not their fault he was too good to play against kids when he was 16. Should they have entered their academy in the MLS to prove the effectiveness of their academy?

So he was too good for their academy, essentially skipped it and went pretty much directly to the first team after only being there for 4 months, and you think that says a lot about the developmental capacity of their academy? 

Okay.  

[Watchmen]

I think to a certain extent we're splitting hairs: the Whitecaps as an organization brought Davies in and developed him. Regardless of how much that involved the academy, WFC2, and the main club, it's something the organization really hasn't done since. Granted, we're also talking about a generational talent. But it would he nice if the Whitecaps developed more of the "every day MLSer" as well. They've done alright with CDN players in their early 20s (Ahmed, Rasposo, Johnson) but that bridge from 17-20 is eluding them.

[kacbru]

Does Carl Robinson telling Davies to quick the ball into space and then chase it count as development? 

[Shway]

6 hours ago, Bigandy said:

You seem a bit defensive over TFC.... I said that depending on how you look at development, things change. Does cornelius count for whitecaps if Oso does? Does TFC get large credit for corbeanu? etc etc. What about raposo? Did TFC or VWFC develop him more. 

As for the "bullshit". The whitecaps residency was pretty much developed by thomas niendorf. He's arguably the best talent/youth development guy in north america. However, its foolish to say that he had anywhere near the resources TFC's academy has. So basically one main man, taking a USL team and singlehandedly developing a residency program for players and giving them careers is not in the same ballpark as TFC's abundant resources. 

Niendorf could go anywhere and develop talent while getting these players pro contracts. I wouldnt mistake his incredible talent with whitecaps....... I mean, theres a huge discrepency between how niendorf wanted to develop players in the residency and the whitecaps first team which is why niendorf left. That in itself speaks volumes to how lacklustre the residency in vancouver was. 

Some notable players from niendorf.
1. hargreaves
2. mckenna
3. Hirschfield
4. Ledgerwood
5. Straith
6. kennedy
7. Gage
8. edwini-bonsu
9. Gyau - former dortmund player
10. nsaliwa
11. Ntignee
12. Elva

Now add in the fact that toronto fc was created in 06 and started their academy in 08. While the VWFC residency was founded in 07. So yes, the whitecaps started 1 year prior to TFC, but they also didnt have the major mls resources for several years..... 

I dont have a horse in the race over TFC vs VWFC but it feels like youre quite bias towards defending TFC..... 

shouldn't of said bullshit, it sounds like I'm trying to belittle you. It's conversation and I don't ever want to sound like @Unnamed Trialist during debates and opinions about soccer. 

Corneilius was already playing professional for a while before the Whitecaps gave him a seasons worth of games. So no, not the same.

I didnt count Chapman for TFC for the same reason why I wouldn't for Raposo.(Although the former was a "HG" for TFC.

My point is, the Whitecaps were pumping money (maybe wasn't TFC sized) into their academy long before TFC existed (their residency program was before 2007). I know Thomas was massive, to the program and getting guys to Germany...but like I said the Whitecaps had the prestige in Canada as the go to place for player development.

TFC came into the picture years later and shook it up a little BUT, and a massive BUT....I don't know if you remember but Vancouver had essentially the entire country as their territory rights. TFC had only the GTA (6M people) while Vancouver had the other (9M people).

I don't have a horse in the race......I just dislike how people try to come at Toronto as if they aren't leading and doing everything while Vancouver isn't producing shit. Look at it this way, Cavalry FC has done more for the CMNT than the Whitecaps.

Let's keep it there, and not trying to deflect to "what has Toronto really done". 

.....Have me sounding like the TFC apologists himself @RS 🤭

 

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

He was there for 4 months.  The academy did nothing to develop him.  He even toured with the senior team before signing with the academy.   To me that isn’t about the academy. 
 

So he was too good for their academy, essentially skipped it and went pretty much directly to the first team after only being there for 4 months, and you think that says a lot about the developmental capacity of their academy? 

Okay.  

The Whitecaps have an academy. Is it Barcelona or Palmeiras? No.. but as a Canadian soccer fan I'm grateful for it. I think they've turned out some good players. How many professional soccer players have cone three the Caps in the last 10 years? A decent number

And for the record.. Manneh was never anything special 

Edited January 20 by SpursFlu

[PiedPilko]

Sometimes it feels like academies at this level can't really win here. If they produce mediocre players, then there must be something wrong with the system. When they produce good players, they were clearly gonna be good anyway, so they don't deserve any credit. 

[Shway]

41 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

The Whitecaps have an academy. Is it Barcelona or Palmeiras? No.. but as a Canadian soccer fan I'm grateful for it. I think they've turned out some good players. How many professional soccer players have cone three the Caps in the last 10 years? A decent number

And for the record.. Manneh was never anything special 

I think everybody quantifies the success of MLS academies as what have they produced for the CMNT. Theres nothing wrong with saying that, and inspecting the why....especially when we look at the youth teams and all we see is Toronto Academy, Toronto FC II, CF Montreal U-23, Whitecaps Academy, Whitecaps FC II. 

[dyslexic nam]

49 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

The Whitecaps have an academy. Is it Barcelona or Palmeiras? No.. but as a Canadian soccer fan I'm grateful for it. I think they've turned out some good players. How many professional soccer players have cone three the Caps in the last 10 years? A decent number

And for the record.. Manneh was never anything special 

I don’t know where some of this is coming from.  OTP said something along the lines of the idea that Davies development and evolution proves something about the VWC academy.  I am just saying that his evolution as a player had virtually nothing to do with the academy.  I am not saying they should tank their academy or that it is a waste.  Just that it doesn’t deserve credit for Davies.  The Caps do as an organization.  And I was very clear about my position on that.  But it simply isn’t a testament to the effectiveness of their academy.  

Edited January 20 by dyslexic nam

[Bison44]

There are plenty of examples like what Nam is talking about.  Oso has a cup of coffee at the academy then on to MLS, how much credit should they get??  And as far as that goes, if a kid spends a few years in the system, sure they should get their props,.  Obviously Tabla, Nelsen and JMR were talented but spent multiple years with the acadmey, so they deserve some credit, but they were starting out with damn good raw materials eh?  Nams point that Davies came to them at such a high level he bypassed the academy coaching after a few months.  

[Borjans Sweatpants]

Was really hoping I had a few pages on McDonnell to catch up on. Turns out it’s a debate on Canadian academies. Maybe that can go to another thread ya?

Back on McDonnell, he’s back with Ireland for U16 duty: https://northerntribune.ca/vancouver-fc-grady-mcdonnell-ireland-youth-call-up/

Question: why wasn’t he in our U17 World Cup squad? If he’s good enough for Irelands U17s, you’d think he could make it into ours. Was it his decision to go with Ireland?

[nolando]

1 hour ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Was really hoping I had a few pages on McDonnell to catch up on. Turns out it’s a debate on Canadian academies. Maybe that can go to another thread ya?

Back on McDonnell, he’s back with Ireland for U16 duty: https://northerntribune.ca/vancouver-fc-grady-mcdonnell-ireland-youth-call-up/

Question: why wasn’t he in our U17 World Cup squad? If he’s good enough for Irelands U17s, you’d think he could make it into ours. Was it his decision to go with Ireland?

Apparently, yes.

[RS]

6 hours ago, Shway said:

....Have me sounding like the TFC apologists himself @RS 🤭

[Shway]

Just now, RS said:

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

There are plenty of examples like what Nam is talking about.  Oso has a cup of coffee at the academy then on to MLS, how much credit should they get??  And as far as that goes, if a kid spends a few years in the system, sure they should get their props,.  Obviously Tabla, Nelsen and JMR were talented but spent multiple years with the acadmey, so they deserve some credit, but they were starting out with damn good raw materials eh?  Nams point that Davies came to them at such a high level he bypassed the academy coaching after a few months.  

I don’t think anyone could doubt Davies raw talent, as it matched his trajectory/where he is today. His talent did the walking per se. However I wont take the Whitecaps …. For giving him the opportunity to express himself. It an alternate situation, Davies leaves and makes another way and is the main guy playing for Liberia in the AFCON.

There’s definitely variables for a few situations, as some players develop differently than others and we see this often at who gets called at the youth levels only to disappear before U23.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:39 PM, phresh said:

He also repped Canada at the Concacaf U15 tourney in August, was one of the best players alongside Kevin Khan and Andre Ali-Gayapersad

This made me take a look André Ali Gayapersad is still playing in the top u-16 division here in Barcelona for Damm CF, the youth academy run by the beer brand. Playing against the u-16s of the best pro clubs, Barça, Girona, Espanyol. He has 8 starts in 13 games and no goals, the team is midtable.

[VinceA]

On the reddit post about his signing someone is saying they know on good authority he has no interest in Canada.

 

Source is Trust Me Bro but still if that's the case....

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, VinceA said:

On the reddit post about his signing someone is saying they know on good authority he has no interest in Canada.

 

Source is Trust Me Bro but still if that's the case....

Sounds like he's heard granddad's voice for 15 years of his life. 

In any case, Canada now aspires to more than Ireland, and he'll start to hear other opinions and views, and get other offers. I am not concerned because at that age it is too early to tell, and also because any 15 year old who thinks or says that is just showing immaturity. 

[Dominic94]

19 minutes ago, VinceA said:

On the reddit post about his signing someone is saying they know on good authority he has no interest in Canada.

 

Source is Trust Me Bro but still if that's the case....

Would be dumb, Canada is arguably better now and I would bet we are in 5 years.

[Stoppage Time]

24 minutes ago, VinceA said:

On the reddit post about his signing someone is saying they know on good authority he has no interest in Canada.

 

Source is Trust Me Bro but still if that's the case....

I agree with other posters that a lot can happen with different people around you. Plus, there will be no excuse for anybody with CSA connections to miss watching him in the CPL on numerous occasions.

Let's wait and see and hope that all turns out well for McDonnell and Canada.

[Kadenge]

Didn't he rep our U15s in the Concacaf tournament with Kevin Khan & others?

[Dominic94]

16 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Didn't he rep our U15s in the Concacaf tournament with Kevin Khan & others?

Apparently, he is with Ireland now for a tourney but whatever helps his euro career. He and Tahid could be big long term.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Sounds like he's heard granddad's voice for 15 years of his life. 

In any case, Canada now aspires to more than Ireland, and he'll start to hear other opinions and views, and get other offers. I am not concerned because at that age it is too early to tell, and also because any 15 year old who thinks or says that is just showing immaturity. 

I understand what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with it. But Ireland has two major tournaments it can participate in (WC and Euro) vs, (let's be honest) just one for Canada with the WC. It's another reason why I keep hoping for a permanent joint Copa.  And aside from participating in the tournaments, being part of the Irish national team alone would probably open more doors for him in Europe than Canada would.

As an additional comment, while the door for Canada might not be shut, he seems to have committed himself enough to Ireland that the only reason he'd use his one-time switch would be if he wasn't good enough for them. At which point, he probably wouldn't be good enough for Canada either.

[SthMelbRed]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:55 AM, Shway said:

 

I don't have a horse in the race......I just dislike how people try to come at Toronto as if they aren't leading and doing everything while Vancouver isn't producing shit. Look at it this way, Cavalry FC has done more for the CMNT than the Whitecaps.

 

 

I really hope you were drunk when you typed this, 'cause the alternative is that you're actually stupid enough to believe this nonsense.

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I understand what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing with it. But Ireland has two major tournaments it can participate in (WC and Euro) vs, (let's be honest) just one for Canada with the WC. It's another reason why I keep hoping for a permanent joint Copa.  And aside from participating in the tournaments, being part of the Irish national team alone would probably open more doors for him in Europe than Canada would.

As an additional comment, while the door for Canada might not be shut, he seems to have committed himself enough to Ireland that the only reason he'd use his one-time switch would be if he wasn't good enough for them. At which point, he probably wouldn't be good enough for Canada either.

There's no one-time switch at his age, it's as if he hadn't even played for either yet.

For me he's too young to even worry about it.