Grady McDonnell (2008)

[Shway]

7 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I really hope you were drunk when you typed this, 'cause the alternative is that you're actually stupid enough to believe this nonsense.

I left out "in recent times" I should've mentioned. 

Zator, Loturi, Waterman vs Ahmed....

But tell me how stupid I am now. 
 

[Kadenge]

I don't think playing for Canada discounts a player's ability to attract attention from the top leagues in Europe anymore. It may have 10+ yrs ago but not now. The word is out that Canada is producing quality: Davies, David, Larin, Tajon, Staq...The only issue currently is the inactivity of our youth teams and lack of camps/friendlies for the senior team.

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I really hope you were drunk when you typed this, 'cause the alternative is that you're actually stupid enough to believe this nonsense.

He's just extremely parochial, it's like his mom still doesn't let him out of the house. It is plain ignorance of what is going on in Canadian soccer, and an exaggerated idea of where he is.

Back to the point: let the kid have his season at VFC. Most likely he will play very little, because I'm sorry, nowhere anywhere can a kid that age playing CB handle seasoned pros, even at the CPL level. Even young guys like Cameron or Crawford, or Tahid, could get burned due to inexperience. But none were at CB. The former two at outside back were often left out to hang, poor kids. 

VFC needs an upgrade at CB, Grady is not it, if they play him he'll burn out because it'll show he's not ready. Unless they give him some DM duties. 

Edited January 21 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's just extremely parochial, it's like his mom still doesn't let him out of the house. It is plain ignorance of what is going on in Canadian soccer, and an exaggerated idea of where he is.

Back to the point: let the kid have his season at VFC. Most likely he will play very little, because I'm sorry, nowhere anywhere can a kid that age playing CB handle seasoned pros, even at the CPL level. Even young guys like Cameron or Crawford, or Tahid, could get burned due to inexperience. But none were at CB. The former two at outside back were often left out to hang, poor kids. 

VFC needs an upgrade at CB, Grady is not it, if they play him he'll burn out because it'll show he's not ready. Unless they give him some DM duties. 

think he is a #8

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

think he is a #8

Well if he's an 8 far better, I don't know why I was thinking CB. Maybe read something wrong. 

VFC has ageing Renan back, and last year their DMs were stuck in the middle with zero range and unable to link with anyone in front of the them. So if he has the motor, and can stay in possession under pressure and be a piece there, then he may get minutes. I was wrong then, better for him.

[InglewoodJack]

23 hours ago, Kadenge said:

I don't think playing for Canada discounts a player's ability to attract attention from the top leagues in Europe anymore. It may have 10+ yrs ago but not now. The word is out that Canada is producing quality: Davies, David, Larin, Tajon, Staq...The only issue currently is the inactivity of our youth teams and lack of camps/friendlies for the senior team.

Even though Irish people in Canada are several generations further removed than our Italian/Greek/Balkan counterparts, I wouldn’t discount just how “Irish” a lot of these people feel and how important the honour to get asked to represent Ireland on the international stage is. Plus, there’s the better slate of games to play too. Also, he’s a 15 year old kid- I don’t know if he’s thinking about this strategically Vs being so happy he got a call from an international team and being loyal to them because that’s a really cool achievement to have at such a young age. 
 

I wouldn’t take that one Reddit comment about him having no interest in us to the bank and even if it was true, he’s either 5 years away from being good enough to even be in the convo for us, so there’s a lot of time for things to change, or if he’s good enough younger, I think we’ll move mountains to cap him, just like we did Davies and Kone, and to some extent LDF.

[masster]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Even though Irish people in Canada are several generations further removed than our Italian/Greek/Balkan counterparts, I wouldn’t discount just how “Irish” a lot of these people feel and how important the honour to get asked to represent Ireland on the international stage is. Plus, there’s the better slate of games to play too. Also, he’s a 15 year old kid- I don’t know if he’s thinking about this strategically Vs being so happy he got a call from an international team and being loyal to them because that’s a really cool achievement to have at such a young age. 
 

I wouldn’t take that one Reddit comment about him having no interest in us to the bank and even if it was true, he’s either 5 years away from being good enough to even be in the convo for us, so there’s a lot of time for things to change, or if he’s good enough younger, I think we’ll move mountains to cap him, just like we did Davies and Kone, and to some extent LDF.

Not in Vancouver. There are a lot more young Irish immigrants now than from any of those other countries.

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, masster said:

Not in Vancouver. There are a lot more young Irish immigrants now than from any of those other countries.

I guess McDonnell’s family would have to be relatively recently arrived to Canada in order for him to be eligible for the Irish national team, since most of the Irish diaspora would be too far removed to qualify as Irish unless they moved there. 

Surprised it would be that high though, but I guess Ireland is one of the few countries rich enough to afford to move to Vancouver. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

There are quite a few aspiring young tradesmen from Ireland, for example, a son of a friend says his electrician's ticket programme is full of them. 

[SthMelbRed]

After the Celtic Tiger crashed, the Irish economy isn't going so well. So many Irish tradespeople are moving abroad looking for work. We have tons of them arriving every week in Australia on working holiday visas. I suspect that a lot are looking at Canada the same way.

[SpursFlu]

5 hours ago, masster said:

Not in Vancouver. There are a lot more young Irish immigrants now than from any of those other countries.

I would echo this. There are so many Irish people in Vancouver it's pretty amazing. And by that I mean people who have come here in roughly the last 15 years. 

It's reflected in the local soccer scene as well. There are a handful of Irish clubs that have done really well and they're full of full on Irish guys. Greencaps are one who might even be in the VMSL premiere league now. I was told they have a couple ex pros from Ireland on their team. Harps are another club that comes to mind

Edited January 23 by SpursFlu

[Shway]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:04 AM, Shway said:

I left out "in recent times" I should've mentioned. 

Zator, Loturi, Waterman vs Ahmed....

But tell me how stupid I am now. 
 

@SthMelbRed Did you choose to ignore when this point was brought? Or were you sobering up from the weekend's festivities with the AFC taking place? 

Or will you say Cavalry had no part in Zator, Waterman, or Loturi getting CMNT caps?

@Unnamed Trialist

Your takes are consistently insipid, and they are prepubescent for an old man like yourself. I felt like responding with the same juvenile take like "go suck your mom"... but lord knows if she's still on this earth. Oops I guess I did. 

It's cowardly and juvenile to send insults over the internet. I hate fake tough guys and bullies and that's exactly what you are here. Guess that brings you life.

But back on topic, the Irish are coming to Canada. 

[red card]

In an interview with AFTN, he said discussions with VFC started a month or two ago. He felt he will improve more at VFC by playing with and against more experienced players. He looks forward to learning the most from 37 year old Renan Garcia who has played for Sampdoria.

Goes to school online. He trained 2x/day during covid which really improved his skills and showed he has a chance to make it as a pro. He follows Man City, BHA, Dortmund & Schalke (went on a trial with them a few months ago).

Canada & Irish camps are similar but different. Irish players take football more seriously. Not all Canada guys are as competitive. 

Views himself as a box-to-box left sided 8 but can be a 10. Signed 3 year deal with next step to play in Europe. 

Haven't made decision yet between Canada & Ireland. Even if he plays in u17 Euros, he will consider a switch to Canada. 

Starts around 79 mins. 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

...Surprised it would be that high though, but I guess Ireland is one of the few countries rich enough to afford to move to Vancouver. 

Rich on paper only because it operates as a thinly disguised corporate tax haven but the standard of living is not as great for the ordinary population as GDP figures would imply. Brexit definitely wasn't good news for the economy the ordinary population experiences in recent times and there are rising social tensions over high rates of immigration.

Edited January 23 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[InglewoodJack]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Rich on paper only because it operates as a thinly disguised corporate tax haven but the standard of living is not as great for the ordinary population as GDP figures would imply. Brexit definitely wasn't good news for the economy the ordinary population experiences in recent times and there are rising social tensions over high rates of immigration.

I mean, Ireland has the 8th highest HDI score, has an employment rate nearly identical to countries like Finland and Austria, has a median (not mean) income similar to that of Finland's, France, higher than the UK and Japan; if anything, their issues are similar to ours- everything is just too expensive. Brexit definitely didn't make anything easier on them, that's for sure.

As for "rising social tensions" because of immigration, that is definitely not a factor in people leaving Ireland (to Vancouver, no less), but every country with immigration is are going to have their pundits make it seem like the country is falling and the people are divided. I don't think Connor McGregor and people paid to write articles represent how everyone feels. Ireland is still probably one of the best countries in the world to live in, if you can afford it.

[Ivan]

12 hours ago, red card said:

In an interview with AFTN, he said discussions with VFC started a month or two ago. He felt he will improve more at VFC by playing with and against more experienced players. He looks forward to learning the most from 37 year old Renan Garcia who has played for Sampdoria.

Goes to school online. He trained 2x/day during covid which really improved his skills and showed he has a chance to make it as a pro. He follows Man City, BHA, Dortmund & Schalke (went on a trial with them a few months ago).

Canada & Irish camps are similar but different. Irish players take football more seriously. Not all Canada guys are as competitive. 

Views himself as a box-to-box left sided 8 but can be a 10. Signed 3 year deal with next step to play in Europe. 

Haven't made decision yet between Canada & Ireland. Even if he plays in u17 Euros, he will consider a switch to Canada. 

Starts around 79 mins. 

 

Good interview.  Mature, well-spoken kid.  Good luck to him.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I mean, Ireland has the 8th highest HDI score, has an employment rate nearly identical to countries like Finland and Austria, has a median (not mean) income similar to that of Finland's, France, higher than the UK and Japan; if anything, their issues are similar to ours- everything is just too expensive. Brexit definitely didn't make anything easier on them, that's for sure.

As for "rising social tensions" because of immigration, that is definitely not a factor in people leaving Ireland (to Vancouver, no less), but every country with immigration is are going to have their pundits make it seem like the country is falling and the people are divided. I don't think Connor McGregor and people paid to write articles represent how everyone feels. Ireland is still probably one of the best countries in the world to live in, if you can afford it.

I agree, excellent place to be and not a place to leave. Unless you are in some sectors where the opportunities are more limited. 

The point is that any country you go to in the world, you will find some professions that are not properly valued, where meritocracy doesn't work, or there are certain social policies or limitations on freedoms, and it could make sense to leave. Ireland is an excellent country, not as expensive as some make out, its overall services have improved immensely, a high cultural level for its size, food has gotten much better, cheap flights everywhere and back. You go to a pub and the music can be outstanding, so the price of the drink is well compensated.

Still friendly as hell. Last time I was there I ended up at a private party after the visual arts people I was with met others they knew in a pub, it was a few days before Halloween and they were already in costume. As an aside, at that party I met a visual arts teacher who told me about taking her art students abroad, and was also a women's football referee. I am pretty sure the person I met was Michelle O'Neill, who has since become a top tier international FIFA ref.

[SthMelbRed]

18 hours ago, Shway said:

@SthMelbRed Did you choose to ignore when this point was brought? Or were you sobering up from the weekend's festivities with the AFC taking place? 

Or will you say Cavalry had no part in Zator, Waterman, or Loturi getting CMNT caps?

@Unnamed Trialist

Your takes are consistently insipid, and they are prepubescent for an old man like yourself. I felt like responding with the same juvenile take like "go suck your mom"... but lord knows if she's still on this earth. Oops I guess I did. 

It's cowardly and juvenile to send insults over the internet. I hate fake tough guys and bullies and that's exactly what you are here. Guess that brings you life.

But back on topic, the Irish are coming to Canada. 

It's still a moronic argument, mate. You've listed 3 players who passed through Cavalry on their way to earning a total of 5 combined Canada caps while playing for other clubs. Ali Ahmed, the only player that you've seen fit to credit Vancouver for has 4 on his own, and will be a much larger part of the Canada program over the next 8-10 years than any of your Cavalry 3. And that's even before we get into anything else the Whitecaps have done over the past 5 years, like rescuing Max Crepeau's career to the point where he's our presumptive No 1 for the next 5 years.

[AnonymousInsider]

McDonnell featured for Ireland U16s today and scored in a 6-0 win over Greece. Is with them for a four-team tournament against Turkey, Greece, and the Czech Republic.

[InglewoodJack]

When would his next opportunity to feature for Canada be?

[narduch]

28 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

When would his next opportunity to feature for Canada be?

The next Concacaf U17 tournament is probably going to be early next year

[Bigandy]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:55 PM, Shway said:

shouldn't of said bullshit, it sounds like I'm trying to belittle you. It's conversation and I don't ever want to sound like @Unnamed Trialist during debates and opinions about soccer. 

Corneilius was already playing professional for a while before the Whitecaps gave him a seasons worth of games. So no, not the same.

I didnt count Chapman for TFC for the same reason why I wouldn't for Raposo.(Although the former was a "HG" for TFC.

My point is, the Whitecaps were pumping money (maybe wasn't TFC sized) into their academy long before TFC existed (their residency program was before 2007). I know Thomas was massive, to the program and getting guys to Germany...but like I said the Whitecaps had the prestige in Canada as the go to place for player development.

TFC came into the picture years later and shook it up a little BUT, and a massive BUT....I don't know if you remember but Vancouver had essentially the entire country as their territory rights. TFC had only the GTA (6M people) while Vancouver had the other (9M people).

I don't have a horse in the race......I just dislike how people try to come at Toronto as if they aren't leading and doing everything while Vancouver isn't producing shit. Look at it this way, Cavalry FC has done more for the CMNT than the Whitecaps.

Let's keep it there, and not trying to deflect to "what has Toronto really done". 

.....Have me sounding like the TFC apologists himself @RS 🤭

 

 

On 1/19/2024 at 4:55 PM, Shway said:

shouldn't of said bullshit, it sounds like I'm trying to belittle you. It's conversation and I don't ever want to sound like @Unnamed Trialist during debates and opinions about soccer. 

Corneilius was already playing professional for a while before the Whitecaps gave him a seasons worth of games. So no, not the same.

I didnt count Chapman for TFC for the same reason why I wouldn't for Raposo.(Although the former was a "HG" for TFC.

My point is, the Whitecaps were pumping money (maybe wasn't TFC sized) into their academy long before TFC existed (their residency program was before 2007). I know Thomas was massive, to the program and getting guys to Germany...but like I said the Whitecaps had the prestige in Canada as the go to place for player development.

TFC came into the picture years later and shook it up a little BUT, and a massive BUT....I don't know if you remember but Vancouver had essentially the entire country as their territory rights. TFC had only the GTA (6M people) while Vancouver had the other (9M people).

I don't have a horse in the race......I just dislike how people try to come at Toronto as if they aren't leading and doing everything while Vancouver isn't producing shit. Look at it this way, Cavalry FC has done more for the CMNT than the Whitecaps.

Let's keep it there, and not trying to deflect to "what has Toronto really done". 

.....Have me sounding like the TFC apologists himself @RS 🤭

 

No worries. Im not offended and really appreciate your insight as youve clearly played at a decent level and know the game (NTC right?) 

100% on chapman, raposo, corneliuis  and oso. It's a weird thing to try and give credit for development when its a multifactor way. 

I also strongly agree that TFC is producing more consistent and better talent. They could probably improve on things. However, the whitecaps for sure have room to grow and with the talent on west, its a shame at how little they are producing. 

I just dont think that whitecaps produce zero and I think (and hope to some degree) that TFC, our biggest club resource wise, will and should be producing the most talent. If TFC was behind vancouver, there would be some major issues at TFC. 

so I do agree with the general vibe of your post. (although I would take ahmed over loturi, waterman, and zator anyday)

[Shway]

 

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

just dont think that whitecaps produce zero and I think (and hope to some degree) that TFC, our biggest club resource wise, will and should be producing the most talent. If TFC was behind vancouver, there would be some major issues at TFC. 

I think this is the common misconception. Just because the resources are greater doesn't mean the player development will be.

Yea it sounds like they go hand in hand,  but clubs have different expectations. For example, Real Madrid greatest and most successful club in the world but when you look at the Spanish national team today, you don't see many if not any players that were developed by Real Madrid.

My point is the expectation that TFC should consistently be developing players because they have a larger budget is irrelevant because TFC is always trying to spend to win now (it's failing now) at the expense of development. Meaning their vast amount of talent in their academy's will get less opportunities. 

I think we need to see more young MLS academy players get loans to CPL squads with the agreement of game time. Their should be an incentive for both clubs...I.e Richard Chukwu loaned to York United, he plays x amount of minutes TFC will give 5% of a sell on fee or they pay a fee. The benefit to TFC is that their young player is getting professional minutes early and exposure. 

But ultimately the expectation of development can't be left up to TFC, much less the Caps or the Impact.... it's not sustainable. 

[Bigandy]

5 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

I think this is the common misconception. Just because the resources are greater doesn't mean the player development will be.

Yea it sounds like they go hand in hand,  but clubs have different expectations. For example, Real Madrid greatest and most successful club in the world but when you look at the Spanish national team today, you don't see many if not any players that were developed by Real Madrid.

My point is the expectation that TFC should consistently be developing players because they have a larger budget is irrelevant because TFC is always trying to spend to win now (it's failing now) at the expense of development. Meaning their vast amount of talent in their academy's will get less opportunities. 

I think we need to see more young MLS academy players get loans to CPL squads with the agreement of game time. Their should be an incentive for both clubs...I.e Richard Chukwu loaned to York United, he plays x amount of minutes TFC will give 5% of a sell on fee or they pay a fee. The benefit to TFC is that their young player is getting professional minutes early and exposure. 

But ultimately the expectation of development can't be left up to TFC, much less the Caps or the Impact.... it's not sustainable. 

I think youre wrong about real madrid. The CIES football observatory carried a study to review which academies are contributing the most and real madrid has been ranked really high. RM leads with 44 players in top 5 leagues. 

Some spanish national team players: 
Nacho, carvajal. Lucas V, Jese, Sarabia, Morata, Callejon, Mayoral, mata, regulion, llorente, Alonso, D llorente. This doesnt include guys like hakimi either who are not spanish. 

The difference is that RM and the spanish national team is the epitome of soccer. Its incredibly difficult to produce that elite level player. To compare RM to TFC, just because both want to win, is not accurate when looking at player development. 

With all the MLS rules about salaries etc, TFC have to leverage value and they do that with their academy quite well and regularly. Its not RM where you can sign the best players in every position. The evidence is there. franklin is 2nd in minutes, kerr and JMR have over 1100 min each, Thompson, akinoal, gavran, antonoglu all have around 500 minutes. Therefore theres plenty of minutes to go around. 

TFC has the best recruitment opportunities with the biggest talent pool in canada in GTA. They have the biggest budget, they recruit the highest profile DP players (which surely helps educate youngsters), and typically can bring in better coaching teams. 


 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I think youre wrong about real madrid. The CIES football observatory carried a study to review which academies are contributing the most and real madrid has been ranked really high. RM leads with 44 players in top 5 leagues. 

Some spanish national team players: 
Nacho, carvajal. Lucas V, Jese, Sarabia, Morata, Callejon, Mayoral, mata, regulion, llorente, Alonso, D llorente. This doesnt include guys like hakimi either who are not spanish. 

The difference is that RM and the spanish national team is the epitome of soccer. Its incredibly difficult to produce that elite level player. To compare RM to TFC, just because both want to win, is not accurate when looking at player development. 
 

Thanks, was surprised by that. Real Madrid does have lapses in player development, but still, on the Spain national team there is Morata, starting striker, and his sub at striker Joselu, both RM developed. Then Carvajal. Nacho the CB was left off recently only because of long-term injury. 2/11, maybe 3/11, plus one supersub, not great but not bad. 

Though what you are saying makes sense, if anyone thinks there should be more. Sometimes the big teams with good finances can just buy, and the youth can't break in if the quality is that high. Unless they get a lucky break, even Casillas got a break as a teen when the starter Bodo Illgner got injured. TFC has done the big buying more than any other Canadian MLS team. But then, the others, with weaker finances, have not bought in well enough to the other more economic option, bring up the kids.

I think there are two questions for development at MLS clubs

1-what is the playing model or style, and does the reserve or NextPro team play it? Meaning either a younger player can step into the role if needed, or not know what the hell to do. Obviously the standard bearers for this model are teams like Ajax.

2-is the reserve level high enough to make the leap feasible? While there are many cases of players being called from a lower level reserve to a first team, usually the higher the reserve team and its competition, the easier the step up.

Again, most top reserve teams in Netherlands are in second division, which makes their development model one of the most envied, for both factors. 

Our MLS model does not care enough about the first, and the reserves are probably too low a level to fulfill the second.