nolando Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, Watchmen said: Maybe? But Colyn they were more active in his loan abroad. This is a player actively choosing to leave their program and go pro, at a much earlier age than they were likely prepared to offer him. Will be interesting to see how he develops now. I just meant a player of great promise, one of the stars of the age group, and certainly a darling of the Caps academy that they are losing. That this is really big news, in other words. Grady was a celebrated Caps yourh star, like Fisk and Colyn before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 I don’t really see it as Vancouver losing a player. Vancouver could almost definitely beat out any team who wants to acquire him, and if they can’t, it’s because he jumped to a level far beyond what Vancouver can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borjans Sweatpants Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 More of this, please & thank you CPL. Pro mins for young Cdns is exactly what we need. It's a different level but the top 4/5 Euro leagues are playing 16/17 yr olds. I think the 3 MLS teams are going to get a bit nervous about more of their academy kids jumping ship. nolando, Northvansteve, K Edgar and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Kadenge said: More of this, please & thank you CPL. Pro mins for young Cdns is exactly what we need. It's a different level but the top 4/5 Euro leagues are playing 16/17 yr olds. I think the 3 MLS teams are going to get a bit nervous about more of their academy kids jumping ship. If each CPL team can sign 3 players 15-17 then the CMNT is going to actually get some quality depth. Add in the increase in quality from mls academies, more internationals/duals, and NCAA and we finally have a good pipeline. Theres plenty of talent around so I dont think the MLS academies will be too nervous on the grand scheme of things. Edited January 17 by Bigandy saladroit, Borjans Sweatpants and Metro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said: I don’t really see it as Vancouver losing a player. Vancouver could almost definitely beat out any team who wants to acquire him, and if they can’t, it’s because he jumped to a level far beyond what Vancouver can offer. Sure, but they would likely have to pay a fee like Man U buying back Pogba for €100M after letting him go to Juventus for free. Hopefully €200M in this case though Bigandy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footyeh Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Watchmen said: Yeah, that's why I'm not that upset. Higher level leagues (and I'm not trying to debate how high a level MLS is, simply that it's higher than CPL) don't play as many younger players. It's a different level of development. So now we'll see if going pro in the CPL is a better developer path for these players than through an MLS academy/slower pro progression. Honestly, best of luck to him. Who knows if it'll work out for the kid, I suspect they'll move him to Europe quickly given his passport status but even then he's not guaranteed success like I'm sure we all agree. But to your point... Majority of the MLS's franchises play young players, VWFC doesn't. The MLS is a marketing/selling league, many team's are reaping the benefits of it year after year and so are national teams like the USA. There's teams consistently finishing near the top of the league standings and doing so while giving minutes to young players. Most MLS team's even sign and play 15/16 year olds in Next Pro as a way to give them experience and a market value, VWFC doesn't. This is a club issue, not a topic of going to a league where it's easier to break through. I don't think VWFC are so happy to sit back and just earn "solidarity contributions" like you put it and why should supporters be happy with that either? The club would be a complete joke if that's the stance they took on their academy talents after investing millions over the years. Why do they invest in a residency? It'll look pretty weak if next year when the U17 World Cup cycle comes around and VWFC hardly has a player on it, or all the BC representation is from CPL/Europe. I think it's great to have more players pursue the CPL route, it increases our greater player pool. But, in this case VWFC is losing their club's top prospect, they don't have another one at that level. narduch, Stoppage Time, El Hombre and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 29 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Sure, but they would likely have to pay a fee like Man U buying back Pogba for €100M after letting him go to Juventus for free. Hopefully €200M in this case though I think you forgot to calculate inflation. If he’s sold in say, 5 years, we’re probably looking at closer to €300M. He’s a real talent this lad. Stoppage Time and Bigandy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Footyeh said: Who knows if it'll work out for the kid, I suspect they'll move him to Europe quickly given his passport status but even then he's not guaranteed success like I'm sure we all agree. But to your point... Majority of the MLS's franchises play young players, VWFC doesn't. The MLS is a marketing/selling league, many team's are reaping the benefits of it year after year and so are national teams like the USA. There's teams consistently finishing near the top of the league standings and doing so while giving minutes to young players. Most MLS team's even sign and play 15/16 year olds in Next Pro as a way to give them experience and a market value, VWFC doesn't. This is a club issue, not a topic of going to a league where it's easier to break through. I don't think VWFC are so happy to sit back and just earn "solidarity contributions" like you put it and why should supporters be happy with that either? The club would be a complete joke if that's the stance they took on their academy talents after investing millions over the years. Why do they invest in a residency? It'll look pretty weak if next year when the U17 World Cup cycle comes around and VWFC hardly has a player on it, or all the BC representation is from CPL/Europe. I think it's great to have more players pursue the CPL route, it increases our greater player pool. But, in this case VWFC is losing their club's top prospect, they don't have another one at that level. I don't think as many MLS clubs play 15/16 yo players as you think, though it certainly happens. And I was joking about the solidarity payment - it wouldn't be much, and not enough to justify the investment (either in this player or the academy). But I'm in agreement. The Whitecaps just lost one of their best rated prospects for essentially nothing. Maybe they don't think he's that good. But maybe they did, and rather than going through their academy system he jumped to another option. That's something the Whitecaps will need to review internally about their process, or it will happen to them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footyeh Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 23 minutes ago, Watchmen said: I don't think as many MLS clubs play 15/16 yo players as you think, though it certainly happens. And I was joking about the solidarity payment - it wouldn't be much, and not enough to justify the investment (either in this player or the academy). But I'm in agreement. The Whitecaps just lost one of their best rated prospects for essentially nothing. Maybe they don't think he's that good. But maybe they did, and rather than going through their academy system he jumped to another option. That's something the Whitecaps will need to review internally about their process, or it will happen to them again. I wasn't specifically talking about 15/16 year olds... but we don't play 17/18/19 year olds either so what exactly are we (the club) doing. CanadaFan123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Footyeh said: Who knows if it'll work out for the kid, I suspect they'll move him to Europe quickly given his passport status but even then he's not guaranteed success like I'm sure we all agree. But to your point... Majority of the MLS's franchises play young players, VWFC doesn't. The MLS is a marketing/selling league, many team's are reaping the benefits of it year after year and so are national teams like the USA. There's teams consistently finishing near the top of the league standings and doing so while giving minutes to young players. Most MLS team's even sign and play 15/16 year olds in Next Pro as a way to give them experience and a market value, VWFC doesn't. This is a club issue, not a topic of going to a league where it's easier to break through. I don't think VWFC are so happy to sit back and just earn "solidarity contributions" like you put it and why should supporters be happy with that either? The club would be a complete joke if that's the stance they took on their academy talents after investing millions over the years. Why do they invest in a residency? It'll look pretty weak if next year when the U17 World Cup cycle comes around and VWFC hardly has a player on it, or all the BC representation is from CPL/Europe. I think it's great to have more players pursue the CPL route, it increases our greater player pool. But, in this case VWFC is losing their club's top prospect, they don't have another one at that level. To add to this: For VFC, Tahid was a warning shot that they intend to compete for and develop the top BC talent, O’Donnell is a statement of intent. They literally just poached the kid from WFC own academy. It’s a big get for them, and a blow for an academy that is in shambles now. This is very positive for Canadian soccer, because it shows the CPL is following the USL trend. For those who don’t know the USL has really put the heat on MLS in terms of top youth talent and has actually won some of the best young players coming up. The 13 year old is a big win for them, and there will be more. They exposed the issue that many MLS teams are not playing their youth and ones is certain positions. This has been needed for ages, and you’re going to see the US talent level explode this decade. The Can PL is slowly starting to sign the younger players, we’ve seen it with the 2004 and up age group, which is really the group to focus on as these players benefit the most. Pacific is a little late to the party but I’d imagine you will also start to see York and Forge poach from TFC. Point being, if you’re Vancouver or Toronto your monopoly is over, and if you’re Montreal you’d better keep up playing the youth because there’s options elsewhere. This is a brutal look for Vancouver who will have to evaluate their entire development path, they didn’t send 2 kids to Europe and they didn’t get Tahid, and now the lost Grady… it’s awful. But they have gone and shown time and time again that the will not player their top youth and they can’t develop them, they also dump them at 19…. We will likely see this emerge as a trend in Bc for a good while. Stryker911, narduch, canuckgbp and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dominic94 said: To add to this: For VFC, Tahid was a warning shot that they intend to compete for and develop the top BC talent, O’Donnell is a statement of intent. They literally just poached the kid from WFC own academy. It’s a big get for them, and a blow for an academy that is in shambles now. This is very positive for Canadian soccer, because it shows the CPL is following the USL trend. For those who don’t know the USL has really put the heat on MLS in terms of top youth talent and has actually won some of the best young players coming up. The 13 year old is a big win for them, and there will be more. They exposed the issue that many MLS teams are not playing their youth and ones is certain positions. This has been needed for ages, and you’re going to see the US talent level explode this decade. The Can PL is slowly starting to sign the younger players, we’ve seen it with the 2004 and up age group, which is really the group to focus on as these players benefit the most. Pacific is a little late to the party but I’d imagine you will also start to see York and Forge poach from TFC. Point being, if you’re Vancouver or Toronto your monopoly is over, and if you’re Montreal you’d better keep up playing the youth because there’s options elsewhere. This is a brutal look for Vancouver who will have to evaluate their entire development path, they didn’t send 2 kids to Europe and they didn’t get Tahid, and now the lost Grady… it’s awful. But they have gone and shown time and time again that the will not player their top youth and they can’t develop them, they also dump them at 19…. We will likely see this emerge as a trend in Bc for a good while. I will throw one word of caution at you: it is one thing to poach a kid developed in another's academy. People are viewing this as a positive. But it's possible that the Whitecaps decide that if they can't keep the kids in their academy, they make the decision to close it. And if that's the case, the CPL better step up with their own academies (which they've shown no interest in doing) because there won't be one to poach from. Edit: To be clear, I hope they figure out what the problem is and resolve it. I'm just saying it's not their only option. Edited January 18 by Watchmen NVsoccer and longlugan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, Watchmen said: I will throw one word of caution at you: it is one thing to poach a kid developed in another's academy. People are viewing this as a positive. But it's possible that the Whitecaps decide that if they can't keep the kids in their academy, they make the decision to close it. And if that's the case, the CPL better step up with their own academies (which they've shown no interest in doing) because there won't be one to poach from. Edit: To be clear, I hope they figure out what the problem is and resolve it. I'm just saying it's not their only option. That's a very extreme leap. Mihairokov, NVsoccer, Aird25 and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 13 minutes ago, VinceA said: That's a very extreme leap. If you're not getting anything out of it, why continue it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 20 minutes ago, Watchmen said: If you're not getting anything out of it, why continue it? I doubt MLS would allow that… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Well they could have signed him, couldnt they?? CPL beat them to the punch with a likely promise of playing time that Van couldnt match. If the next 15 year old BC star is good enough to play Nextpro etc, sign him and you might get something out of your academy. Doesnt this kind of remind you when Aleman and Petrasso left TFC academy?? Then they learned their lesson signing JMR and Nelsen early. Ruffian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Dominic94 said: I doubt MLS would allow that… There are teams that don't have academies. They couldn't fold the NextPro side. They're two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footyeh Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Watchmen said: There are teams that don't have academies. They couldn't fold the NextPro side. They're two different things. Yeah... no. Every MLS team has an academy. NVsoccer and Dominic94 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, Watchmen said: If you're not getting anything out of it, why continue it? Makes sense to me. Would be a mistaken decision, but it makes sense. Many top clubs have reduced their academy sizes, not expanded them. Scout better, work with a smaller group, then scour the market for kids at other clubs. Watchmen and Ottawafan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Let me comment on this question of increasingly younger players. First, it seems clear that physical development, which was historically slower in boy to man than for women, is being improved. Kids are appearing at ever-younger ages with the strength, resistance, pace and muscular maturity, and all over the world. We saw this at the last u-17 WC, even if historically certain countries seemed stronger and bigger, even the smaller players are fitter now. So it's a tendency we have to expect. Then, it is also a risk to have a player at pro pace that young. There is serious risk of physical burnout, despite what I said above. Some players see their curves flatten, they start strong, are starlets, then have to go through those 3-4 years to sort out other things. We've seen this with Odegaard and now it Pedri is going through it. Next, there is another risk, which is as a player you don't pan out, then get tossed by the way. This is why IMO it is better to go slow, and not go crazy too young. The reason FIFA changed the rules on minors was because there were dozens, hundreds even of players from Africa or South America lost on some second division team in Kazakhstan or wherever, basically with the local club speculating on their success. This isn't the same, but if a kid of 15 or even 17 moves out of home, moves away, is off somewhere, gets cut, there could be a toll emotionally, it's a huge letdown. We've solved part of the issue of development with these 8 new teams. So that a kid in the GTO or south-west BC has three pro clubs within reasonable distance (Ottawa a bit further). We don't have the pro club density to allow a kid to sidestep, reset, and find his way back in from a lesser known club, but we are getting there somewhat. I personally find it is too young to offer a kid who is 15 a pro opportunity, and more so if a club does not have a reserve or academy team. You need to play at that age. Not just train. There is zero benefit in not playing regular competitive matches, and Grady won't. He'll also get garbage minutes, not starts. That cuts off and deters part of his development, and VFC has no alternative to offer him. Unless they loan him to a League 1 club for a few months to partially solve that. NVsoccer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 hours ago, Watchmen said: I will throw one word of caution at you: it is one thing to poach a kid developed in another's academy. People are viewing this as a positive. But it's possible that the Whitecaps decide that if they can't keep the kids in their academy, they make the decision to close it. And if that's the case, the CPL better step up with their own academies (which they've shown no interest in doing) because there won't be one to poach from. Edit: To be clear, I hope they figure out what the problem is and resolve it. I'm just saying it's not their only option. Lol - in world football Vancouver is known for one thing: producing Alphonso Davies. Would be hilarious if they reached the conclusion to shut down their academy rather than to actually play/develop another teenager. NVsoccer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said: Lol - in world football Vancouver is known for one thing: producing Alphonso Davies. Would be hilarious if they reached the conclusion to shut down their academy rather than to actually play/develop another teenager. Agreed. It's frustrating to everyone they're dumping millions in to an operation that's producing nothing for them. But that might be the conclusion they reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) On 1/17/2024 at 12:15 PM, Bigandy said: which boys are you talking about? Niko Wood: Matteo Rizzo: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr3yei6sCCy/?igsh=NXlicXBqaDBodG83 Edited January 19 by nolando YorkRegionFan, Bigandy and johnyb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footyeh Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, nolando said: Niko Wood: Matteo Rizzo: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr3yei6sCCy/?igsh=NXlicXBqaDBodG83 Niko Wood: https://www.instagram.com/nikowood_football/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Time Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 14 hours ago, Watchmen said: Agreed. It's frustrating to everyone they're dumping millions in to an operation that's producing nothing for them. But that might be the conclusion they reach. What needs to change? Is it the coaching, the frequency and level of competition, poor scouting, or ??? Aside from Davies, which youth player has cracked the VWFC lineup? Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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