Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[JamboAl]

Just a reminder for those wondering…the Nations League Semi-Final in Vegas was over $100 US including fees and taxes for the cheapest ticket (in the Voyageurs section).  Most tickets were in the US $175-$500 range with premium seating facing the centre circle around US $750-$1,000.  

There will be no $35 tickets at Copa America.

[Watchmen]

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Just a reminder for those wondering…the Nations League Semi-Final in Vegas was over $100 US including fees and taxes for the cheapest ticket (in the Voyageurs section).  Most tickets were in the US $175-$500 range with premium seating facing the centre circle around US $750-$1,000.  

There will be no $35 tickets at Copa America.

A cursory Google search shows individual game tickets ranged from $50-$500 (and I think excludes some of the later games), and that was in 2016. Unlikely to have gotten cheaper. 

[nfitz]

21 hours ago, Shway said:

I'm excited for this tournament.
I think we see a lot of changes from our World Cup squad.

I'd think we'd be sending a B squad without a lot of European players, given that the tournament is over the same time-frame that the Gold Cup was this year.

[dyslexic nam]

9 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'd think we'd be sending a B squad without a lot of European players, given that the tournament is over the same time-frame that the Gold Cup was this year.

Nah - this is a major tournament.  The Gold Cup was impacted by the fact that we prioritized Nations League - we would have had more A-teamers if we didn’t have a second, alternate tournament this summer.  For the Copa, I would be floored if our top guys chose to opt out of the chance to play teams like Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (who will all be using their A teams).   

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Nah - this is a major tournament.  The Gold Cup was impacted by the fact that we prioritized Nations League - we would have had more A-teamers if we didn’t have a second, alternate tournament this summer.  For the Copa, I would be floored if our top guys chose to opt out of the chance to play teams like Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (who will all be using their A teams).   

I think it was the 2007 tournament that the US sent their C team to after getting an invite, as they prioritized the Gold Cup that year.  Always thought that was a pretty good summary of the US program: rather than push themselves to see how they'd do against top class competition (the Copa) they'd rather try an win the much easier Gold Cup (which they did, for the 3rd time in 4 tournaments).  They'd then spend a period of time wondering why they don't make much progress on the world stage.

Anyway, there's zero chance of Canada not taking their A team.  We're seeing how hard it is for Canada to schedule friendlies against top class teams, no chance at all the team doesn't take the opportunity to test themselves there.  And as you say, this is the type of thing our top players want to be in.  It's the best tournament they'll get after the WC.  They'll all show.

[SpursFlu]

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Just a reminder for those wondering…the Nations League Semi-Final in Vegas was over $100 US including fees and taxes for the cheapest ticket (in the Voyageurs section).  Most tickets were in the US $175-$500 range with premium seating facing the centre circle around US $750-$1,000.  

There will be no $35 tickets at Copa America.

What are the amounts Voyageurs are typically allocated for just say a Nation League final?

I would think the Copa America would have an even bigger demand. There is a high likelihood of a group stage game v Brazil or Argentina. Would you expect a similar allocation to past events?

Edited July 19, 2023 by SpursFlu

[JamboAl]

43 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

What are the amounts Voyageurs are typically allocated for just say a Nation League final?

I would think the Copa America would have an even bigger demand. There is a high likelihood of a group stage game v Brazil or Argentina. Would you expect a similar allocation to past events?

We got around 350 tickets for the Nations League semi-final & final but it wasn’t straight forward at all.  It wound up being about the right number.  
 

For Copa America, we would have to start enquiring if/when we qualify.  Canada Soccer was super helpful helping us connect with CONCACAF.  Don’t know how it would be dealing with CONMEBOL.

[TGAA_Star]

On 7/18/2023 at 7:18 PM, nfitz said:

I'd think we'd be sending a B squad without a lot of European players, given that the tournament is over the same time-frame that the Gold Cup was this year.

Exactly Copa America will be an A team squad for Canada especially if Canada wants to impress and also given we want to have as much of a competitive advantage going into 2026, then our best should go up against the best that South America has to offer period 

[eramosat]

Wow, that's an expensive ticket.😐

Looking foward to end-of-July updates to CONCACAF rankings to see whether or not Panama passed Canada with their o/s GC performance, and  put Canada back (a small amount) in their Copa qualifying efforts.

[blueseeka]

25 minutes ago, eramosat said:

Wow, that's an expensive ticket.😐

Looking foward to end-of-July updates to CONCACAF rankings to see whether or not Panama passed Canada with their o/s GC performance, and  put Canada back (a small amount) in their Copa qualifying efforts.

Doesnt look like it

[maplebanana]

38 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

Doesnt look like it

That's the FIFA rankings, not the CONCACAF index. 

@eramosat it doesn't really matter if PAN passes us in the CONCACAF index as the CNL groupings are already done vis-a-vis top 4 vs the rest. What does matter is whether we can keep 3rd (over CRC) in CONCACAF index so that we don't have to play the top group winner in the QF, and get to play 2nd (maybe MEX) instead of 1st (USA) in the SF. Unfortunately there will be no USA-MEX SF this time around.

[eramosat]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:05 PM, maplebanana said:

That's the FIFA rankings, not the CONCACAF index. 

@eramosat it doesn't really matter if PAN passes us in the CONCACAF index as the CNL groupings are already done vis-a-vis top 4 vs the rest. What does matter is whether we can keep 3rd (over CRC) in CONCACAF index so that we don't have to play the top group winner in the QF, and get to play 2nd (maybe MEX) instead of 1st (USA) in the SF. Unfortunately there will be no USA-MEX SF this time around.

ahhh...you mean, CONCACAF index for Top 4 have already been established?  good!  as I suspect Panama is gonna creep, and creep.

@blueseeka you listed the FIFA rankings, which are used for just about everything, except Nations League, where a slightly different ranking is use, the CONCACAF index!  search for it, and you'll see it tucked away on CONCACAF page(s).  It hasn't been updated since June 30, and probably will be updated at end of July...

[maplebanana]

11 minutes ago, eramosat said:

ahhh...you mean, CONCACAF index for Top 4 have already been established?  good!  as I suspect Panama is gonna creep, and creep.

@blueseeka you listed the FIFA rankings, which are used for just about everything, except Nations League, where a slightly different ranking is use, the CONCACAF index!  search for it, and you'll see it tucked away on CONCACAF page(s).  It hasn't been updated since June 30, and probably will be updated at end of July...

The order of the top 4 hasn't been locked yet (I believe the seeding will be based on Oct 31 CONCACAF ranking). But which top 4 teams is already locked, on the basis that the non-top-4 have to play group stage CNL in September. So if we are 3rd come Nov 1, we are playing the top group winner in the QF and 2nd seed in SF. If we are 4th, we play the 2nd best group winner, then 1st seed in SF.

[SpursFlu]

Maybe I haven't been following too closely but we seem locked in to a 3rd pot

[nfitz]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:05 PM, maplebanana said:

That's the FIFA rankings, not the CONCACAF index. 

I don't know what those numbers are - but they aren't the FIFA rankings. Canada is in 3rd place ahead of Costa Rica. This looks like a poor attempt to precalculate them.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men?dateId=id14079

[maplebanana]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

I don't know what those numbers are - but they aren't the FIFA rankings. Canada is in 3rd place ahead of Costa Rica. This looks like a poor attempt to precalculate them.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men?dateId=id14079

 

It's exactly that. It's a website that does 'live' FIFA rankings calculations. But my point is that it's not the CONCACAF index, which is what determines our seeding for CNL (and hence Copa 2024 qualifying). The pots for Copa '24 are likely FIFA ranking based though. Or, entirely rigged. I'd say both are equally likely.

[eramosat]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:02 PM, nfitz said:

I don't know what those numbers are - but they aren't the FIFA rankings. Canada is in 3rd place ahead of Costa Rica. This looks like a poor attempt to precalculate them.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men?dateId=id14079

I don't know why you think they look poor.  they are entirely reliable, and a very accurate prediction of what the FIFA rankings will be when FIFA actually decides to publish them.  it's easy to calculate FIFA ranking points, and this site keeps it up-to-date on a daily basis.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The draw for this is rumoured to be in Miami, likely during the first half of December.

 

CONMEBOL&CONCACAF likely don't want to wait until late March (after the last-chance playoffs) to have the full schedule decided and to sell tickets.

This means that if we fall to Jamaica our potential games could be on sale before even knowing if we qualified.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The draw for this is rumoured to be in Miami, likely during the first half of December.

 

CONMEBOL&CONCACAF likely don't want to wait until late March (after the last-chance playoffs) to have the full schedule decided and to sell tickets.

This means that if we fall to Jamaica our potential games could be on sale before even knowing if we qualified.

I wouldn't worry too much.  What's likely to happen is that you'll have "ticket packages" for a city sold first, before single game tickets go on sale.  I don't think single game tickets will go on sale until later.

I'll also be interested to see what ticket sales are actually like.  I went to Argentina vs Bolivia in Seattle for the 2016 edition and there was a lot of empty seats

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I wouldn't worry too much.  What's likely to happen is that you'll have "ticket packages" for a city sold first, before single game tickets go on sale.  I don't think single game tickets will go on sale until later.

I'll also be interested to see what ticket sales are actually like.  I went to Argentina vs Bolivia in Seattle for the 2016 edition and there was a lot of empty seats

That's interesting.I wonder if that would be the case today with Messi mania and Argentina current world champs?

I went to 3 games in Orlando in 2016, including Brazil-Haiti. I cannot recall exactly what attendance was but felt like most of Camping World Stadium was full. The others I saw including Costa Rica, Paraguay, Panama and Bolivia were much more empty, but it makes sense.

The big draws for 2024 I think will be Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and the United States. After that you're probably looking at who, Ecuador? Chile? Uruguay perhaps?

The US demographics are such that Honduras could draw decent numbers, should they make it, but aside from them I think those big 5 will carry most of the weight on attendance. Maybe it's a big 6 if Honduras qualifies...

[EJsens1]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

That's interesting.I wonder if that would be the case today with Messi mania and Argentina current world champs?

I went to 3 games in Orlando in 2016, including Brazil-Haiti. I cannot recall exactly what attendance was but felt like most of Camping World Stadium was full. The others I saw including Costa Rica, Paraguay, Panama and Bolivia were much more empty, but it makes sense.

The big draws for 2024 I think will be Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and the United States. After that you're probably looking at who, Ecuador? Chile? Uruguay perhaps?

The US demographics are such that Honduras could draw decent numbers, should they make it, but aside from them I think those big 5 will carry most of the weight on attendance. Maybe it's a big 6 if Honduras qualifies...

I wonder if BMO will get a game. Obviously it’s imperative we qualify after the November window for that to happen. If we were in a group with say Bolivia or Panama, it would make sense to have a game here against us. There’s no chance if we’re drawn with Brazil or Argentina a game would happen in Canada. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

12 minutes ago, EJsens1 said:

I wonder if BMO will get a game. Obviously it’s imperative we qualify after the November window for that to happen. If we were in a group with say Bolivia or Panama, it would make sense to have a game here against us. There’s no chance if we’re drawn with Brazil or Argentina a game would happen in Canada. 

I think your reasoning is sound. I agree.

CONMEBOL+CONCACAF want to maximize their revenue and that is likely the best way to do that.

I have a feeling that if Mexico and the USA qualify, all other CONCACAF teams will be in the same pot. This makes a match against Panama unlikely. But Bolivia, Venezuela, Paraguay, for sure.

[Alex]

34 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I think your reasoning is sound. I agree.

CONMEBOL+CONCACAF want to maximize their revenue and that is likely the best way to do that.

I have a feeling that if Mexico and the USA qualify, all other CONCACAF teams will be in the same pot. This makes a match against Panama unlikely. But Bolivia, Venezuela, Paraguay, for sure.

Now you’ve got me thinking about pots. I assume they will look something like:

Brazil, Argentina, USA, Mexico

Colombia, Chile, Uruguay, Peru

4 concacaf teams

Paraguay, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador 

[Shway]

36 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I think your reasoning is sound. I agree.

CONMEBOL+CONCACAF want to maximize their revenue and that is likely the best way to do that.

I have a feeling that if Mexico and the USA qualify, all other CONCACAF teams will be in the same pot. This makes a match against Panama unlikely. But Bolivia, Venezuela, Paraguay, for sure.

The only key thing is....last tournament, there wasn't a single stadium that didn't have a capacity over 60k. 
There is absolutely no way that its going to change for a bigger tournament. 

Or.... be prepared to pay double the cost. 

[Shway]

For reference, here are the venues of the last iteration of this style tournament: 

And here are the venues selected for the 26 World Cup:

 

Concacaf will want to use this as preparation for the real thing, so I expect these fields to be used.