2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[longlugan]

14 hours ago, nfitz said:

Will they want to though? They have no realistic chance of advancing - is it worth their while to put a squad together months before they'd need to, to play a closed-door, perhaps not even televised, match - particularly when they are going to be playing 2021 CONACAF League and hopefully Voyageurs Cup matches this summer.

If it were I, I'd be sticking up my hand and saying pass.

I'm guessing you never amounted to much as an athlete with that attitude. 

[Watchmen]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:52 PM, Ansem said:

Where is this self-defeating weak and soft Canadian "politeness" coming from?

Of all the F'N domestic cups in the world where part-timers in the 6th division gives their all to compete against an EPL clubs or top tier club - Only in F'N Canada you'd find fans who'd imply that lower seeded teams should just stay home.

F me...

They shouldn't just stay home.  But this is possibly an opportunity for the CPL Players Union to get the league talking to and actually acknowledging them.

[Watchmen]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:32 AM, Ansem said:

I wonder what happens to TFC if there's a lockout...

1. Forfeit the game to Forge
2. Ask "volunteers" to play the final

What happen to MLS?

1. They forfeit their games
2. USSF sends USL clubs instead

1) The Voyagers Cup isn't held.  Forge takes the Champions League Spot.

2) Not Canada's problem.

[nfitz]

On 1/26/2021 at 8:03 AM, narduch said:

How are their chances not realistic? TFC have a new coach. They will probably have big roster turn over. They will also have not played a competitive match at that point.

Hell we are only 2 years removed from TFC being knocked out of the Champions League by a lowly Panamanian side.

I just don't understand this mentality. The football mentality of being a billionaire bootlicker essentially.

Hamilton also won't have played a competitive match - and be a lot further from having to do so.

I don't understand the mentality of thinking that a borderline fully-professional squad is actually going to be competitive against an MLS squad. The CPL budgets are even lower than the USL ones - and USL beating an MLS team that plays an A team is very rare.

Oh, it's not impossible ... but it's more like a National League squad beating a Premier League squad ... it might happen once in a while, particularly if the Premier League team puts in the U23 team. The entire Hamilton salary for the year, is less than the average TFC salary.

One might wish that Hamilton would be up to it, but I can well see that they won't. Who's footing the bill to bring back the squad two months early, for a game that might not even have any TV revenue.

On the other hand, I really don't know why TFC would want to be playing in Latin America this year either ... might be a contest to see who can score the most own goals ...

I certainly hope we have a real match!

Edited January 28, 2021 by nfitz

[longlugan]

4 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Hamilton also won't have played a competitive match - and be a lot further from having to do so.

I don't understand the mentality of thinking that a borderline fully-professional squad is actually going to be competitive against an MLS squad. The CPL budgets are even lower than the USL ones - and USL beating an MLS team that plays an A team is very rare.

Oh, it's not impossible ... but it's more like a National League squad beating a Premier League squad ... it might happen once in a while, particularly if the Premier League team puts in the U23 team. The entire Hamilton salary for the year, is less than the average TFC salary.

One might wish that Hamilton would be up to it, but I can well see that they won't. Who's footing the bill to bring back the squad two months early, for a game that might not even have any TV revenue.

On the other hand, I really don't know why TFC would want to be playing in Latin America this year either ... might be a contest to see who can score the most own goals ...

I certainly hope we have a real match!

Dude...are all your takes so ridiculous? If it were up to you they wouldn't even play any games at all...just distribute point or wins based solely on rankings. Get a grip please.

[nfitz]

Just now, longlugan said:

Dude...are all your takes so ridiculous? If it were up to you they wouldn't even play any games at all...just distribute point or wins based solely on rankings. Get a grip please.

I'm not sure how my take that a third-tier CPL team is actually got a serious chance of beating a top MLS team that plays it's best team.

Surely ridiculous are the folk who seem to under the misconception that CPS actually is high quality!

Entertaining and good value sure. Hopefully for the future, sure. But really ...

Sure, miracles can happen. And I was certainly cheering for Crawley the other day. But there's no reason to start being rude, simply because I don't share your fantasy!

[longlugan]

2 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'm not sure how my take that a third-tier CPL team is actually got a serious chance of beating a top MLS team that plays it's best team.

Surely ridiculous are the folk who seem to under the misconception that CPS actually is high quality!

Entertaining and good value sure. Hopefully for the future, sure. But really ...

Sure, miracles can happen. And I was certainly cheering for Crawley the other day. But there's no reason to start being rude, simply because I don't share your fantasy!

Rude? I'm sorry I hurt your feelings while pointing out the ridiculousness of your statement. I never claimed that the odds were in Forge's favour or some such thing but there's a reason they actually PLAY the damn games. Of course TFC will be highly favoured - as they should be - but the way you shit on the CPL and the Forge like they don't have a hope is mind boggling. Forge FC have won the CPL twice, have defeated higher rated teams on the road under difficult circumstances in the CONCACAF League. Btw...in case you missed it...a CPL team has already beaten an MLS team in the Cup so it's not like it's unprecedented. But your probably right...Forge FC shouldn't even bother showing up. Maybe I should just give up my Forge season seats too since the quality is so low.🙄

[nfitz]

When have I shat on the CPL? Why the exaggeration?

I've enjoyed attending the occasional Forge game. Why are you trying so hard to make me hate the team, with such poor behaviour and rudeness, simply for acknowledging what you also seem to acknowledge.

But answer the question - where's the money coming from to call back the team in February?

[SpursFlu]

I haven't read everything here but as a reference I recall reading Saprissa has a wage bill of around 800k. They routinely do well against top MLS teams and I'd take them over MLS bottom feeders on most days

[longlugan]

Are you truly this out of touch? Do you know anything about the Forge's owner...anything at all? Do your research and then get back to me. Btw I honestly don't care if I've affected your sensitivities because your takes are sickeningly defeatist. Also the only thing I've acknowledged is that TFC will be the clear favourite in this matchup...that is all. The game still has to be played for a reason...but I know you'd rather they didn't since that might disrail your warped thought process. I don't even understand how or why you would want to be a sports fan in the first place since there is always a good chance it will not follow your pre-destined formula that you obviously prefer. 

My apologies to everyone else here for hijacking this thread somewhat but attitudes like nfitz's frustrate me to no end.

              RANT OVER 

[Ansem]

@nfitz

[nfitz]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:34 PM, longlugan said:

My apologies to everyone else here for hijacking this thread somewhat but attitudes like nfitz's frustrate me to no end.

I know nothing about the Hamilton Forge's ownership - please stop bullying. Why can't you have a simple discussion, rather than trying to pretend that anyone in the country who isn't intimate with the ownership structure of a third-tier club doesn't deserve any respect.

Edited February 2, 2021 by nfitz

[longlugan]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I know nothing about the Hamilton Forge's ownership - stop being such a whiny asshole. Why can't you have a simple discussion, rather than trying to pretend that anyone in the country who isn't intimate with the ownership structure of a third-tier club doesn't deserve any respect.

Tired of the shitty attitudes of some here ...

I agree...and your shitty attitude is most prevalent as far as I can tell. So you're in this forum as a Canadian footie fan in some capacity and make an absurd statement about Forge ownership knowing nothing at all about said ownership? Hmmm...interesting. 🤣🤣🤣

[nfitz]

14 minutes ago, longlugan said:

I agree...and your shitty attitude is most prevalent as far as I can tell. So you're in this forum as a Canadian footie fan in some capacity and make an absurd statement about Forge ownership knowing nothing at all about said ownership? Hmmm...interesting. 🤣🤣🤣

What statement did I say about Forge ownership?

And why so impolite about such a statement, that I don't even recall making? You ignore simple questions, and instead prefer to make lectures. 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by nfitz

[longlugan]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

What statement did I say about Forge ownership?

And why so impolite about such a statement, that I don't even recall making? You ignore simple questions, and instead prefer to make lectures. 

 

Dude...I give up. You win. 

[Kent]

17 hours ago, nfitz said:

When have I shat on the CPL?

 

18 hours ago, nfitz said:

I don't understand the mentality of thinking that a borderline fully-professional squad is actually going to be competitive against an MLS squad.

 

18 hours ago, nfitz said:

it's more like a National League squad beating a Premier League squad

 

18 hours ago, nfitz said:

my take that a third-tier CPL team

 

18 hours ago, nfitz said:

Surely ridiculous are the folk who seem to under the misconception that CPS actually is high quality!

 

15 hours ago, nfitz said:

third-tier club

And by the way, here are all the scores between a CPL team vs. an MLS team.

York9 2 Montreal Impact 2
York9 0 Montreal Impact 1

Cavalry 0 Vancouver 0
Cavalry 2 Vancouver 1

Montreal 2 Cavalry 1
Montreal 1 Cavalry 0

3 MLS wins, 1 CPL win, and 2 draws. No games separated by more than a goal. Hardly merits the "3rd tier" description or comparing it to National League vs Premier League. MLS has to earn that kind of hyperbole first.

[narduch]

We are 2 years removed from TFC being knocked out of a lowly Panamanian side and now people just want to award the Voyageurs Cup to TFC?

[nfitz]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

We are 2 years removed from TFC being knocked out of a lowly Panamanian side and now people just want to award the Voyageurs Cup to TFC?

Absolutely not - I don't think anyone has expressed a desire for that. I've simply wondered if Hamilton will be ready (or want to be ready) for a competitive match in March, months before their season starts, when they are already going to be playing in CONCACAF league this year. Apparently though, such a question is "an absurd statement about Forge ownership". Which is amusing, as by definition, a question, isn't a statement!

Also amusing that simply noting that CPL isn't the same level of play as MLS is "shitting on them". I fundamentally don't know why acknowledging this reality is "shitting". Is this what coddling kids in schools has done to people? Is giving a top student in a class an A+ on a paper, and another student a C now considered shitting on them? (and perhaps it is ... my kids report cards seem to have incomprehensible letters like E, G, S ... rather than actual grades).

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by nfitz

[longlugan]

4 hours ago, nfitz said:

Absolutely not - I don't think anyone has expressed a desire for that. I've simply wondered if Hamilton will be ready (or want to be ready) for a competitive match in March, months before their season starts, when they are already going to be playing in CONCACAF league this year. Apparently though, such a question is "an absurd statement about Forge ownership". Which is amusing, as by definition, a question, isn't a statement!

Also amusing that simply noting that CPL isn't the same level of play as MLS is "shitting on them". I fundamentally don't know why acknowledging this reality is "shitting". Is this what coddling kids in schools has done to people? Is giving a top student in a class an A+ on a paper, and another student a C now considered shitting on them? (and perhaps it is ... my kids report cards seem to have incomprehensible letters like E, G, S ... rather than actual grades).

 

Hmmm...where to begin. You did not wonder whether Forge FC would be able to or want to prepare for the match with TFC...you wondered if ownership could afford it and yet I'm guessing you still haven't researched who owns them.

You also never "simply" noted that CPL is not that same level as MLS. Every fan of the league already knows this you fuckwit. What you actually said was that the CPL couldn't compete with MLS teams and yet as Kent has already pointed out EVERY game has been competitive. You also keep referring to it as third tier and compare it to the National League and yet it is the highest fully Canadian league in the country...I would definitely consider that as shitting on them.

As far as your coddling the kids comment...I wouldn't know...I've never coddled any of my kids but I have raised them in such a way that they are all successful and upstanding individuals. Before you get your panties in a bunch I do realize that comment was directed at me, not my kids, I just don't understand why you would assume I was a kid since I've been on this forum longer than you have and am probably older than you. So stop being such a disingenuous twatwaffle and stick to commenting about things you have a clue about. I have know idea what that is but please do some research first. Have a good weekend.

[Bison44]

7 hours ago, nfitz said:

Absolutely not - I don't think anyone has expressed a desire for that. I've simply wondered if Hamilton will be ready (or want to be ready) for a competitive match in March, months before their season starts, when they are already going to be playing in CONCACAF league this year. Apparently though, such a question is "an absurd statement about Forge ownership". Which is amusing, as by definition, a question, isn't a statement!

Also amusing that simply noting that CPL isn't the same level of play as MLS is "shitting on them". I fundamentally don't know why acknowledging this reality is "shitting". Is this what coddling kids in schools has done to people? Is giving a top student in a class an A+ on a paper, and another student a C now considered shitting on them? (and perhaps it is ... my kids report cards seem to have incomprehensible letters like E, G, S ... rather than actual grades).

 

"They dont have a realisitic chance of winning....if it were me i would stick my hand up and take a pass."

If thats not expressing a desire to hand the cup to TFC i dont know what is.  If you were in charge of forge u wouldnt even bother to play the game.  And to say they dont have a chance when Vancouver already lost (see Kents nice simple breakdown of the results so far) is to ignore reality. CLubs a couple levels down knock off big clubs, it happens 33% of the time  for CPL/MLS according to Kents head to head results.  

Adults also get coddled, as in the say shit and then figure they can blah blah their way out.  Your comment was very dismissive.  And of course you are implying a lack of resources, will, heart/desire etc for Hamilton when you ask if they will even bother to play the game.  I dont think they have a chance either, but lots of weird shit goes on, who knows which team will be intact/complete and ready to go etc etc.  And Bob Young doesnt strike me as the kind of guy that will just roll over and let TFC rub his belly.      He played the CCL in Dec months after the season was over...why couldnt he get the team ready in march??  Is that so unbelievable to you??  MLS is shooting for april, cpl for may start up...they arent worlds apart. If nothing else you play the game to help Forge with their preseason preparations, let the guys measure themselves against whatever TFC throws out there.    

Now if you said, "FORGE doesnt have a chance, go crawl back into your tim hortons cup and come back when you can play with the big boys" I'm sure you would have gotten some semi friendly banter from hamilton fans and we would all laugh.  

 

[nfitz]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:13 PM, Bison44 said:

"They dont have a realisitic chance of winning....if it were me i would stick my hand up and take a pass."

If thats not expressing a desire to hand the cup to TFC i dont know what is. 

 

I've consistently expressed desire that the game be played. I'd enjoy seeing it.

I've looked up the owner. Never heard of them. Not sure even if they are loaded, that means they are willing to bring up a truck of money, or have the means to bring back the team this early.

I'm glad to hear a 100% guarantee that Hamilton won't be backing out of this tournament. Though I wish I had more reliable sources.

Edited February 2, 2021 by nfitz

[Bison44]

Touche!!  

[Stanley]

.....and somewhere in Canada, Krammerhead is sitting reading this thread as it deteriorates, with a small smile on his face.

[longlugan]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I've consistently expressed desire that the game be played. I'd enjoy seeing it.

And also, if it doesn't get played, we'll spend years with no-clue assholes claiming that team with such crappy supporters as Hamilton actually could have won!

I've looked up the owner. Never heard of them. Not sure even if they are loaded, that means they are willing to bring up a truck of money, or have the means to bring back the team this early.

I'm glad to hear a 100% guarantee that Hamilton won't be backing out of this tournament. Though I wish I had more reliable sources.

To call you a troll would be an insult to all other previous trolls on here.

[Watchmen]

So, the first Champions league game for a Canadian team is April 6/7/8 range.  MLS training camps set to open soon, with the MLS start date set for April 17.  What I'd like to see:  A couple of friendlies between Vancouver/TFC/Forge and Monteal/TFC/Forge.  Then TFC and Forge play each other for the Voyagers Cup just before the Champions league (say, April 3 or 4).  Montreal and Vancouver can play each other after that, as a continuation of their pre-season.  Works for everyone.  Could be done in a bubble somewhere too.  But, all 4 teams and the CSA should be working on this now.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Watchmen