2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[RS]

5 hours ago, gator said:

They should make TFC wait until Forge returns from the tropics and goes through the 14 day quarantine then play the match at THF!😀

Wouldn't that be putting Forge at a disadvantage? Since TFC has already returned to Canada and would be done the quarantine (and thus returning to training) first?

[gator]

26 minutes ago, RS said:

Wouldn't that be putting Forge at a disadvantage? Since TFC has already returned to Canada and would be done the quarantine (and thus returning to training) first?

I really don't think many of the TFC imports would be keen on waiting around for Forge to return in fact I'm pretty sure that's why this decision was made!

[SpursFlu]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

I really don't think many of the TFC imports would be keen on waiting around for Forge to return in fact I'm pretty sure that's why this decision was made!

That's a very good point

[Kent]

I took the news as positive overall because I think it means it will happen. But I do also think that TFC cried and took their ball home when they got eliminated by Nashville.

[RS]

3 hours ago, gator said:

I really don't think many of the TFC imports would be keen on waiting around for Forge to return in fact I'm pretty sure that's why this decision was made!

Eh, playing in late December would have been a terrible decision for a number of reasons (the actual quality of the soccer being a big one). 

The game(s) should have happened in September, but since it didn’t March is much better.

[gator]

10 hours ago, RS said:

Eh, playing in late December would have been a terrible decision for a number of reasons (the actual quality of the soccer being a big one). 

The game(s) should have happened in September, but since it didn’t March is much better.

Maybe so although TFC didn't shy away from playing in MLS Cup finals in frigid December weather or CCL in February, I'm sure the availabilty of the TFC squad factored into the decision! Hopefully in the spring some fans will be allowed in to stadiums and the final will be a two leg affair! 

[RS]

13 minutes ago, gator said:

Maybe so although TFC didn't shy away from playing in MLS Cup finals in frigid December weather or CCL in February, I'm sure the availabilty of the TFC squad factored into the decision! Hopefully in the spring some fans will be allowed in to stadiums and the final will be a two leg affair! 

There's a lot of assumptions going on here that TFC is the driver of this decision, but I'm not sure Forge wants to play on December 16 (at the earliest), either. 

I'm a huge advocate for the Voyageurs Cup, yet I don't think we can't really compare MLS Cup finals and CCL knockouts to a twice-rescheduled V Cup final that would have been be played in front of no fans if it happened in December (and likely will still have no fans in March). Even so, MLS completely revamped their playoff structure in part because of those frigid finals at BMO, and CONCACAF has hopefully learned that February games shouldn't really fly in northern cities (that TFC game in Colorado in 2018 was -20 or something ridiculous and the match was awful to watch).

Even without the weather factor, Forge quarantining for two weeks while TFC trains creates an even more unlevel playing field than there already was between the sides. Let's have the final when all things are equal between the teams.

[gator]

3 hours ago, RS said:

 

Even without the weather factor, Forge quarantining for two weeks while TFC trains creates an even more unlevel playing field than there already was between the sides. Let's have the final when all things are equal between the teams.

Things will never be equal when one team has approximately 20 tines the payroll as the other! I wouldn't blame TFC players not wanting to wait around to play this match one bit, they have been away from their homes for a long time and were at a distinct disadvantage in MLS this season because of that, I'm impressed with how well they did, at one point they looked to be by far the best team in the East!

[RS]

2 hours ago, gator said:

Things will never be equal when one team has approximately 20 tines the payroll as the other! I wouldn't blame TFC players not wanting to wait around to play this match one bit, they have been away from their homes for a long time and were at a distinct disadvantage in MLS this season because of that, I'm impressed with how well they did, at one point they looked to be by far the best team in the East!

Right, things will never truly be equal which is why I think waiting until things are most equal (March) is the best idea.

I do wonder how motivated both teams will be for the Voyageurs Cup final given that I fully expect Forge to qualify for the CCL well before then. It's a shame the V Cup will be devalued this time around but I suppose there is no avoiding it any longer. (It still grinds my gears that the V Cup wasn't contested in September, but I'm just beating a dead horse at this point.)

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, RS said:

Right, things will never truly be equal which is why I think waiting until things are most equal (March) is the best idea.

I do wonder how motivated both teams will be for the Voyageurs Cup final given that I fully expect Forge to qualify for the CCL well before then. It's a shame the V Cup will be devalued this time around but I suppose there is no avoiding it any longer. (It still grinds my gears that the V Cup wasn't contested in September, but I'm just beating a dead horse at this point.)

It's a Cup final.  Players always want to win silverware, regardless of anything else.  Forge will be motivated to be the first CPL side to win the Cup.  TFC will want to avoid the embarrasment of losing to a lower league side.  The quality of the game would have been much better back in September, but I don't think I'd question the motivation of the team.s

[MtlMario]

The way things stand right now (TFC out of playoff early & Forge on a roll) I would not be surprised to see a Forge win if the game was played now.

[gator]

18 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

The way things stand right now (TFC out of playoff early & Forge on a roll) I would not be surprised to see a Forge win if the game was played now.

Maybe that's why TFC are ducking us?🤪

[Kent]

I guess with the news that V Cup final will be in March must mean that the CCL won’t be starting in late Feb/early March next year. Was that already announced by CONCACAF?

[narduch]

22 hours ago, Kent said:

I guess with the news that V Cup final will be in March must mean that the CCL won’t be starting in late Feb/early March next year. Was that already announced by CONCACAF?

My theory is they will award TFC CAN1 after Forge win on Tuesday. 

And play the Voyageurs Cup afterwards. 

[SpursFlu]

What has tfc done to deserve that?

[Kent]

6 hours ago, narduch said:

My theory is they will award TFC CAN1 after Forge win on Tuesday. 

And play the Voyageurs Cup afterwards. 

A plan without considering what happens if there is an upset (Forge losing)? That would be fitting since that’s what got us here in the first place (not considering the fact the Voyageurs Cup champion could have also qualified via CONCACAF League).

[gator]

Forge winning is no given considering once again how much time there is between matches and going against a team in season and playing in heat, I know nothing about their opponent other than they beat a Jamaican side which hadn't played! I am pleased once again Forge have arrived early and are training in the conditions they will play in, the team will be ready I'm sure, I just hope they shake off any rust from time between matches quickly!

[Ansem]

This game might prove very interesting after all... With Vanney stepping down and TFC making changes when they name the new coach, Forge might be trouble for them. I'd expect TFC to give way more minutes to their younger players. If Forge somewhat keep their core and improve on it... this is a game I want to see!

[Kent]

Not sure if this is the place for it, but Luke Wileman interviewed new CSA president Nick Bontis at halftime of Forge’s CONCACAF League game and he said he “hopes” TFC get a CCL spot if Forge qualify via CONCACAF League (which is still possible via the play in game). So there is legit no plan and they will try to sort it out with CONCACAF after knowing the results, rather than defining a system before the games are played.

[Watchmen]

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

This game might prove very interesting after all... With Vanney stepping down and TFC making changes when they name the new coach, Forge might be trouble for them. I'd expect TFC to give way more minutes to their younger players. If Forge somewhat keep their core and improve on it... this is a game I want to see!

I have no idea why you would expect TFC to give more minutes to younger players in a game that wins them a trophy and gets them in to the CCL.  That just seems like wishful thinking.

[Kent]

16 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I have no idea why you would expect TFC to give more minutes to younger players in a game that wins them a trophy and gets them in to the CCL.  That just seems like wishful thinking.

I wasn’t the one who said it, but “way more” probably is stronger than it should have been. But Piatti is out. Vanney has left and I would speculate that at least part of the reason is that he may have been told there will be significant turnover. If the fan base is to be believed, Altidore and Bradley are wearing out their welcome. And of course, the V Cup rules means at least 3 Canadians need to start, which means one more than the usual Osorio + Laryea.

We will see if Ali Curtis lives up to his reputation of prioritizing playing the kids or not.

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

I wasn’t the one who said it, but “way more” probably is stronger than it should have been. But Piatti is out. Vanney has left and I would speculate that at least part of the reason is that he may have been told there will be significant turnover. If the fan base is to be believed, Altidore and Bradley are wearing out their welcome. And of course, the V Cup rules means at least 3 Canadians need to start, which means one more than the usual Osorio + Laryea.

We will see if Ali Curtis lives up to his reputation of prioritizing playing the kids or not.

But even if you want to give kids more opportunities, a Cup final isn't the place you do it.  Turnover and a new manager probably give Forge a better chance, but I wouldn't expect kids be getting the chance here either.

[narduch]

I'm wondering if this match will need to be played in February now.

[xcalibre]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:46 PM, Kent said:

Not sure if this is the place for it, but Luke Wileman interviewed new CSA president Nick Bontis at halftime of Forge’s CONCACAF League game and he said he “hopes” TFC get a CCL spot if Forge qualify via CONCACAF League (which is still possible via the play in game). So there is legit no plan and they will try to sort it out with CONCACAF after knowing the results, rather than defining a system before the games are played.

This saves the most headaches - TFC and Forge go into CCL and everyone's happy. If the game must be played, they can have it between CCL matchdays to keep fit

[Shway]

With the increase in Cancon at MLS clubs, I think the Voyaguers cup limit for Canadians to start should be doubled to 6 at least.