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CDNFootballer

2019 Spring Season Attendance

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

2/3rds of the Portuguese league having been surviving on these numbers for almost 100 years.

...but they don't do much air travel and rely a lot on away supporters for Benfica, Sporting and Porto boosting their overall average, so that's not really comparable. Think you can add another 2000 or so to what you need to stay afloat in a Canadian context.

12 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

If teams are only drawing 1500 they wont be around. If your drawing 3000 or so while working out the bugs you may be able to stay a float for a little while...

If you can get a lot of people to pay crazy ticket prices, a lower average probably works out OK. It's beginning to look like the Calgary experiment on that is probably going to fail, however, because it's only the reasonably priced seats that appear to be selling to any huge extent.

10 hours ago, Big_M said:

Whats the current capacity of spruce meadows? Seems theres 1500+ tickets available for tomorrow

On wikipedia it states the main grandstand has 4500 seats and that looks accurate when you multiply rows by seats in each seaction, so the stated 6000 overall looks credible once the grass bank seating, the officer's balcony and standing room only tickets are factored in. Going by what appears to have been sold on ticketmaster they shouldn't be drastically far off 3400, but there are way more blue dots on display this time, so what's being displayed on ticketmaster and what's being announced on attendance might not be providing the full picture. Maybe there were a lot of no shows last time due to weather and traffic issues.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

The statistical reality is 1 or 2 of these teams starting likely wont exist in 5-10 years. Happens in pretty well any start up league.

 

If teams are only drawing 1500 they wont be around. If your drawing 3000 or so while working out the bugs you may be able to stay a float for a little while. If cant draw more then a couple thousand a match the support just isn't there and its time to move on.

Well, in Cavalry's situation, it would a case of the support not being there at those ticket prices. Hopefully it works out though.

Edited by Macksam

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10 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

I believe we are counting paid attendance.  Forge have yet to register a home crowd.

 

Forge had paid attendance at their first game. There are several thousand season ticket holders who already paid for tickets before the rest of the seats were filled with giveaways.

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29 minutes ago, RS said:

Forge had paid attendance at their first game. There are several thousand season ticket holders who already paid for tickets before the rest of the seats were filled with giveaways.

True season seat holders are instead getting the first Voyaguer Cup game in Hamilton as part of season seat package

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11 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

2/3rds of the Portuguese league having been surviving on these numbers for almost 100 years.

How many of those clubs have gone under? 

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1 hour ago, RS said:

Forge had paid attendance at their first game. There are several thousand season ticket holders who already paid for tickets before the rest of the seats were filled with giveaways.

 

1 hour ago, Hybred said:

True season seat holders are instead getting the first Voyaguer Cup game in Hamilton as part of season seat package

The number of season ticket holders I have heard is between 5 and 6 thousand, so more than just several thousand paid seats.

And then as @Hybred mentioned we as season ticket holders get 15 home games for the price of 14 as part of our package, with the first V Cup match making up that free 15th.

But @Winnipeg Furyis 100% correct that Valour's first home game should stand as the highest paid attendance thus far. Here's hoping we can get to 10000 at some point in Hamilton (doubtful tonight on a weekday night though), and maybe Valour can get to 12 or so in nicer weather, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if that 1st Valour attendance is the highest of this season.

 

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Posted (edited)

I have no doubt Hamilton will surpass 10000 fans, as I believe you have more season ticket holders than Valour.

I'm assuming  Forge season ticket holders did not pay for the first game, so paid attendance should be NA.

 

Edited by Winnipeg Fury

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37 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Could be much worse - anyone see the stands in Calgary yet??? Ticket taker forget to open the gates?   lol

The parking entrance accidentally re-routed onto the ramp back to Calgary.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, matty said:

forge vs pfc in hamilton 5,861

You can't tell from Ticketmaster then because availability there was limited and suggested they would be a lot closer to 10,000. Either a lot of no shows or they deliberately don't show all the unsold ticket inventory to create an impression of scarcity.

Think they should be very happy with that if it was all paid as weeknights in May are probably the lower end of the range. People might need to reconsider their assumptions about season ticket numbers, however.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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If the pattern holds up, for next season clubs are going to ask for less midweek games and, as a consequence, a slightly longer season. It makes sense to me, since we've played the beautiful game in snow already or at near 0, we could handle a week earlier and a week later--to ensure better attendances on weekends throughout the season.

 

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Posted (edited)

It was freezing again unfortunately I am sure some people didn't come because of the weather never mind it was a Wed night. But still pleasantly surprised with the 6k turnout. The stand shown on TV was quite a bit less full on the other side it was packed up quite a bit more.

Edited by Hybred

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Posted (edited)

I don't want to sound like I'm not following these numbers or this thread closely, but I do think attendance can be a red herring elsewhere -and probably here. We believe the operating budgets are around $5m annually at this point. We've been told by Josh Simpson that MediaPro is covering approximately half of this. The $5m budget makes sense in this context as we know the deal was 10 years/$200m. Whether this is cash or expenses paid directly, I don't think matters. The bottom line is that clubs have about $2,500,000 to cover to break even and survive. Even if this was all on attendance (which it's not because we have Volkswagen, Macron, West Jet, etc. to provide other revenue streams/cover costs) that's like 125,000 paid per team at $20 a ticket with no merchandise or other game day revenue. So 8,000-9,000 per game average worst case scenario.

I don't expect we'll see the league average 8-9k per match, but I think 4-5k will happen. And I think everyone in the league is ok with that. I'm sure there will be some losses, but at the end of year 1 nobody will be suffering so much that they won't be in a position to feel like they can improve in year 2 as well as provide a model for new clubs to enter the league.

 

Edited by youllneverwalkalone

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2 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I don't want to sound like I'm not following these numbers or this thread closely, but I do think attendance can be a red herring elsewhere -and probably here. We believe the operating budgets are around $5m annually at this point....

If the budgets were that high, we would be seeing some much more high profile signings. I suspect that was the number for year one with the league entry fee (what's going to be the expansion fee from now on) factored in.

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Just now, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If the budgets were that high, we would be seeing some much more high profile signings. I suspect that was the number for year one with the league entry fee (what's going to be the expansion fee from now on) factored in.

I don't mean salary. I mean total budget for the club. I would guess the salary is sub $1m.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I don't mean salary. I mean total budget for the club. I would guess the salary is sub $1m.

the budgets are not likely that high as the $200m was being shared with the csa. it's also an amount that would drop with more teams

Edited by matty

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I think if the leagues is even relatively successful this year, which by early indications it should be, then we will see a lot more large sponsors for next year. For this initial season I was surprised by the lack of large, corporate Canadian sponsorship. Only WestJet, Tim Hortons, and Moosehead really come to mind, while we also have Macron (Italian), VW (German), and MediaPro (Spain) as large foreign investors. I would think we will have a bank (Scotiabank or RBC?), oil and gas (Petro-Canada), insurance (Sunlife/manulife?), telecommunications (Bell/Rogers) just to name a few that might want to start getting involved when they see that it will be successful.

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2 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I think if the leagues is even relatively successful this year, which by early indications it should be, then we will see a lot more large sponsors for next year. For this initial season I was surprised by the lack of large, corporate Canadian sponsorship. Only WestJet, Tim Hortons, and Moosehead really come to mind, while we also have Macron (Italian), VW (German), and MediaPro (Spain) as large foreign investors. I would think we will have a bank (Scotiabank or RBC?), oil and gas (Petro-Canada), insurance (Sunlife/manulife?), telecommunications (Bell/Rogers) just to name a few that might want to start getting involved when they see that it will be successful.

I worry of draws are under 3k in Calgary that'll dampen interest from other sponsors. I would just add Nike is a sponsor

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6 minutes ago, matty said:

the budgets are not likely that high as the $200m was being shared with the csa. it's also an amount that would drop with more teams

I believe the magic behind the SUM model that CSB is copying is that you acquire the national team rights at a low cost from a not-for-profit entity and then leverage those rights to pump money into the league.

I don't have time to dig up evidence (I mean random internet hearsay), I'm pretty confident the $5m budget is accurate. I don't see how the player budget could be much less than $1m. Travel has to be $500k at least. Match day costs have to be significant in most stadiums. Then you have the staff, marketing, etc. This has to add up to at least $2,500,000.

You Matty, somewhere, laid out the costs of TV production. Each match has a very high standard thus far. My guess is that MediaPro picks up this cost and estimates the FMV to be $150,000-$200,000 per match or $2,500,000 per club per season.

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