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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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I think the leagues business model seems relatively solid so far, and the losses (at least for some teams), may not be so bad. I was fortunate enough to be able to study the consolidation of professional sports in North America and look at the CFL in particular, but the one thing that typically came up in terms of sustainability, was attendance to player salary. 

Obviously there are so many variables in terms of expenses and revenue sources, but typically (and to simplify it massively) if you can look at profit from home attendance and compare it to the salary costs you can determine the sustainability. So the CPL has a 1 million player salary cap I believe (1.5 was also mentioned, but I think the extra 500k was for total staff costs as well). 

So going outside the CPL for a minute, you can see why a team like the Maple Leafs are so successful. They sell out every game, and easily clear about 200 CAD per ticket (This is cutting out the expenses of rnning the game). So over the season...

19,000 X 200 X 41=$155,800,000- Basically double player salaries.

Comparatively, the Panthers average only 14,000/game, and practically give tickets away. I would say 40/game clearance could be high. 

14,000 X 40 X 41= 22,960,000... This is well below the NHL Salary floor

The recently failed Alliance of American Football is another example. Every player earned 83,000 and they had rosters of 52 (4,316,000). However, they had only 5 home games, and attendance was around 15,000 league wide. Single tickets range from 15 to 175. So assuming they were clearing even 40 per ticket (which given the cavernous nature of all the stadiums used and increased cost). They were looking at 3 million from tickets at best. Looking at that it is no surprise they pulled out, even with a TV deal.

Comparatively, the CPL seems to have reasonable projections for most teams. 

If Pacific FC can average 4,500, which is reasonable given the summer schedule and they earn around 20 dollars per ticket. That puts it around 1,350,000, which covers player salaries for sure.

Halifax looks like they will have 6k every game, which projects to 1.8 million. 

I could do similar projections for Forge or Valour, but I think their early showing and season ticket holders put them at least in a similar range to Halifax. 

Cavalry is a curious case, as the cost of the tickets could make the profit rate higher/ ticket. So if they average only 3,000 all year, but clear 30 per ticket, they would still be in the same range as PFC with cheaper seats.

The main point is, it is early, but given how they have set up the salary cap and have marketed the league, it seems sustainable. 

 

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10 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I believe the magic behind the SUM model that CSB is copying is that you acquire the national team rights at a low cost from a not-for-profit entity and then leverage those rights to pump money into the league.

I don't have time to dig up evidence (I mean random internet hearsay), I'm pretty confident the $5m budget is accurate. I don't see how the player budget could be much less than $1m. Travel has to be $500k at least. Match day costs have to be significant in most stadiums. Then you have the staff, marketing, etc. This has to add up to at least $2,500,000.

You Matty, somewhere, laid out the costs of TV production. Each match has a very high standard thus far. My guess is that MediaPro picks up this cost and estimates the FMV to be $150,000-$200,000 per match or $2,500,000 per club per season.

$3m range is what'd I'd guess personally as player budgets have been suggested at under $1m and travel is likely discounted. In addition you have to remember at the current time there are 9 parties in the league.

If the tleague are getting say $125m from MediaPro then they're each getting about $1.5m, this number would decrease with each expansion as well.

Marketing for some teams has been minimal and some salaries have been suggested as low as $10k for USports.

Edited by matty

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1 minute ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I guess it depends of who is covering the marketing costs, but Onesoccer, CPL Centre Circle, etc. weren't done for minimal costs.

OneSoccer isn't a CPL project. It's MediaPro's outright, it's not what the league budgets for.

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Ok, but if MediaPro are paying the clubs are not. Josh Simpson said quite clearly that MediaPro is covering half their budgets. If you think this is actual cash of $1.5 into their pockets, that's great. I'd be very surprised tho.

That said, it's the same thing. I $3m budget with no media or production costs is at least as good as a $5m budget on your own.

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2 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Ok, but if MediaPro are paying the clubs are not. Josh Simpson said quite clearly that MediaPro is covering half their budgets. If you think this is actual cash of $1.5 into their pockets, that's great. I'd be very surprised tho.

That said, it's the same thing. I $3m budget with no media or production costs is at least as good as a $5m budget on your own.

when i talked with a league official about broadcast, they're plans were way, way lower cost. i don't think they changed that original plan too much once mediapro hopped on board.

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Just now, matty said:

when i talked with a league official about broadcast, they're plans were way, way lower cost. i don't think they changed that original plan too much once mediapro hopped on board.

I may be thinking of somebody else, but don't you have some expertise in TV production? I thought you said $50k per match minimum. I've watched a lot of ****, North American soccer over the years and the MediaPro product looks very professional to me. The statement quoted here makes little sense to me. Please explain.

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5 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I may be thinking of somebody else, but don't you have some expertise in TV production? I thought you said $50k per match minimum. I've watched a lot of ****, North American soccer over the years and the MediaPro product looks very professional to me. The statement quoted here makes little sense to me. Please explain.

50k is the min you can get away with an 8k set-up and that was a maybe. i think mediapro is spending at least $80k a game. what i'm mentioning is the cpl's original plan when doing production themselves, they were talking 3 camera which is like 25k

anyways i don't think we should derail more.

cavs did 2k let's talk that

Edited by matty

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4 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Sure, 2k is not a big deal. They will survive.

as it's the biggest cpl market, it kind of is for advertisers

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15 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

No, I think quality TV production is a much bigger deal for advertisers.

you'd think that but attendance and viewership are bigger factors as they gage interest. 

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1 hour ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Ok, but if MediaPro are paying the clubs are not. Josh Simpson said quite clearly that MediaPro is covering half their budgets. If you think this is actual cash of $1.5 into their pockets, that's great. I'd be very surprised tho.

That said, it's the same thing. I $3m budget with no media or production costs is at least as good as a $5m budget on your own.

The $5M figure came up often. Someone from Sherbrooke interested in the league brought up that figure, same for someone in London who deemed CPL too expensive for him.

$5M seems accurate 

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

The $5M figure came up often. Someone from Sherbrooke interested in the league brought up that figure, same for someone in London who deemed CPL too expensive for him.

$5M seems accurate 

it came up on the forums a few times (as did other numbers) and was mentioned in a single article. iirc buying into the league was a few million. i could see it being an up front cost but not yearly if the cap is around $750k

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1 hour ago, matty said:

it came up on the forums a few times (as did other numbers) and was mentioned in a single article. iirc buying into the league was a few million. i could see it being an up front cost but not yearly if the cap is around $750k

Maybe, maybe not

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6 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Promise I won't post on this again, but if I'm sitting back watching the Cavs on TV, deciding whether I want to buy an add board, all I'm thinking is man, this ground looks (and sounds) amazing.

No if your going to buy an ad you want to know how many people it will reach. The buyer may look at the broadcast on one soccer (which has a very very limited viewership) and think it is quality. Then they are going to look at the 80% empty grandstand. Why have a fancy ad that is not going to reach anyone?

Anyway this thread is about attendance. If there are 2000 people in the seats for the teams second game (in history) on a beautiful sunny Wednesday evening something is radically wrong. Pricing? Location? Lack of interest in the sport in Calgary? Bad marketing? Im not saying the Calvary cant be a great success. However something is really broken - and they have to figure out what it is make the adjustments to fix it. 

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Cavs attendance was poor considering the size of market but these are weekday matches, most important are the weekend attendance figures.

One other important factor is the concession $ involved and Cavs owners also owning the stadium would give them that revenue stream which other clubs don't all have.

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18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You can't tell from Ticketmaster then because availability there was limited and suggested they would be a lot closer to 10,000. Either a lot of no shows or they deliberately don't show all the unsold ticket inventory to create an impression of scarcity.

Think they should be very happy with that if it was all paid as weeknights in May are probably the lower end of the range. People might need to reconsider their assumptions about season ticket numbers, however.

They arent selling sections in the corners. Also not selling the last half dozen rows of the east stand. Those will always be greyed out. Plus they probably counted actual attendance and not tickets sold. Tickets sold would probably have been over 6k. 

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2 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Cavs attendance was poor considering the size of market but these are weekday matches, most important are the weekend attendance figures.

One other important factor is the concession $ involved and Cavs owners also owning the stadium would give them that revenue stream which other clubs don't all have.

weekday matches are as important for an advertiser paying. board ads, kit sponsors, merch providers would care greatly about what exposure there is.

i think with cavs (and maybe york9 and pfc to some extent) we're going to get a good idea of how a less urban location impacts draws

Edited by matty

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Yes but York9 are playing in a facility with a major subway line that is running just minutes away from the stadium with a subway stop minutes away. The stadium they are playing in is in a great spot in terms of public transit almost better than BMO Field actually, you can take the subway straight into the stadium area. With BMO Field subway wise you need to take a bus or streetcar from the subway get to the stadium, however, BMO Field is well connected to the suburbs of Toronto by GO transit though. York9’s stadium is in a good spot public transit wise.

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11 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

I think if the leagues is even relatively successful this year, which by early indications it should be, then we will see a lot more large sponsors for next year. For this initial season I was surprised by the lack of large, corporate Canadian sponsorship. Only WestJet, Tim Hortons, and Moosehead really come to mind, while we also have Macron (Italian), VW (German), and MediaPro (Spain) as large foreign investors. I would think we will have a bank (Scotiabank or RBC?), oil and gas (Petro-Canada), insurance (Sunlife/manulife?), telecommunications (Bell/Rogers) just to name a few that might want to start getting involved when they see that it will be successful.

After the VW announcement, I expected there would be a sponsor from each one of those sectors. Perhaps they are taking a wait and see approach. If average attendance can stay around the 5,000 mark, I fully expect CSB to secure those partners for next season. Show them images of the opening day crowds in Victoria and Halifax and you will have companies that want to be a part of that.

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1 hour ago, SoccMan said:

Yes but York9 are playing in a facility with a major subway line that is running just minutes away from the stadium with a subway stop minutes away. The stadium they are playing in is in a great spot in terms of public transit almost better than BMO Field actually, you can take the subway straight into the stadium area. With BMO Field subway wise you need to take a bus or streetcar from the subway get to the stadium, however, BMO Field is well connected to the suburbs of Toronto by GO transit though. York9’s stadium is in a good spot public transit wise.

in theory but people also hate going to york u, even now, from toronto and it is, to some extent, in the middle of no where. i'm hopeful with the subway they pull at 3k reg for weekday games. curious if any campus bar will be open to public on game days

Edited by matty

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The key for CPL success will be GROWTH. We start wherever we start and if the league as a whole is a success then even teams that start with lower numbers should grow their fan base.

The MediaPro deal has bought us ten years to make it happen. This is an amazing opportunity.

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9 minutes ago, Lofty said:

The key for CPL success will be GROWTH. We start wherever we start and if the league as a whole is a success then even teams that start with lower numbers should grow their fan base.

The MediaPro deal has bought us ten years to make it happen. This is an amazing opportunity.

yep it sure has

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