2019 CONCACAF U17 Championship

[Kent]

A bit of a weird format if you ask me.

We were drawn with USA, Guatemala, and Barbados.

https://www.concacaf.com/en/under-17-men/article/draw-reveals-groups-for-the-2019-concacaf-under-17-championship

[Kent]

So there are 4 groups (3 have 5 teams, 1 group has 4 teams) of low seeded teams that play a qualifying round. The top team in each group advances to the round of 16. Then after that, 4 groups of higher seeded teams play their own group stage, with the top 3 (of 4) in each group advancing to the round of 16. So basically there are group stages for the soul purpose of having the teams outside the top 16 leapfrog over the poorest performing teams and take their spot in the final 16. I've never seen anything like this that I can recall.

Oh well. For us to move on to the round of 16 we likely just need to beat Barbados. Of course I'm sure it would be helpful to do well and likely be seeded higher for the knockout rounds (single elimination). All 4 semi-finalists advance to the World Cup.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Please beat the USA. Canada's U17 should be better than the US this time - considering the US is without a coach and they're not acting with urgency to hire one soon. Unless something goes wrong Canada should win the group with ease.

[badname22]

what's the cutoff? 

[Fullback]

11 minutes ago, badname22 said:

what's the cutoff? 

I believe it is for 2002s and younger 

[SpecialK]

 Watch another MLS  Academy made roster  and we won’t get out of the group cuz  CSA is too lazy and cheap to scout. I’m so excited !!

[Bikerack]

4 hours ago, SpecialK said:

 Watch another MLS  Academy made roster  and we won’t get out of the group cuz  CSA is too lazy and cheap to scout. I’m so excited !!

That’s my fear aswell

but hopefully CSA has seen that it just doesn’t work 

[PhillyJawn-guy]

MLS "academies" are not real development academies since they don't have a competitive environment and play in a faulty system imposed by the USSF. You have to realize that MLS's sabotage of US soccer has spilled over to Canada since joining the league. 

[Keegan]

7 hours ago, SpecialK said:

 Watch another MLS  Academy made roster  and we won’t get out of the group cuz  CSA is too lazy and cheap to scout. I’m so excited !!

Have there been any camps under the radar?  Because if not, that's exactly what they're going to do - there's no alternative.  

What is happening with our youth teams?  When did it become a mandate to entirely cut camps - never mind past ID camps that usually preceded those actual camps.  It's insane and if our kids can pull off qualifying in these circumstances they deserve a ton of credit.  

[Zem]

6 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Have there been any camps under the radar?  Because if not, that's exactly what they're going to do - there's no alternative.  

What is happening with our youth teams?  When did it become a mandate to entirely cut camps - never mind past ID camps that usually preceded those actual camps.  It's insane and if our kids can pull off qualifying in these circumstances they deserve a ton of credit.  

There are U17 camps already scheduled in March and April and there have already been several ID camps for the 2002 age group in the last two years; literally nothing has been cut. In fact, they launched a new program in the fall where national team coaches did multiple one-week training camps with the U15 and U17 MLS academy teams to help them train ahead of time for a potential U17 call-up. So actually, they'll probably be the best-prepared U17 team we've ever had.

[Bison44]

Speaking of which, wasnt there supposed to be an excel u-23 camp in Feb (as in right now).  Did it get canned?

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Zem said:

There are U17 camps already scheduled in March and April and there have already been several ID camps for the 2002 age group in the last two years; literally nothing has been cut. In fact, they launched a new program in the fall where national team coaches did multiple one-week training camps with the U15 and U17 MLS academy teams to help them train ahead of time for a potential U17 call-up. So actually, they'll probably be the best-prepared U17 team we've ever had.

Have there been u17 friendlies or camps in the last 6 months?  You're right but they've visited MLS academy teams, which is exactly what is "lazy" about their squad selection.  If that counts as preparation it's a bit of a joke to be honest.  

https://canadasoccer.com/index.php?t=search2&tab=camps

They'll have one camp before the final squad selection by the looks of it.  

Unless the CSA page is out of date there have been zero U17 camps to this date for this age group, so I don't know how they can be the best prepared U17 team.  

[Zem]

6 hours ago, Keegan said:

Have there been u17 friendlies or camps in the last 6 months?  You're right but they've visited MLS academy teams, which is exactly what is "lazy" about their squad selection.  If that counts as preparation it's a bit of a joke to be honest.  

https://canadasoccer.com/index.php?t=search2&tab=camps

They'll have one camp before the final squad selection by the looks of it.  

Unless the CSA page is out of date there have been zero U17 camps to this date for this age group, so I don't know how they can be the best prepared U17 team.  

As you can see on that page, they have had multiple ID camps for the 2002 age group from late 2016 to 2017, plus the 2017 U15 showcase and 2017 CONCACAF U15 Championship.

And it shouldn't be a joke to you because it isn't some kind of wild coincidence that most of our youth national team players come from three of the best acdemies in the country, and the program directly addresses everyone's complaints that despite having youth friendlies in the lead-up to tournaments our youth teams always seem uncoordinated. Let's not forget that despite having many of your all-important friendlies in the lead-up to the last U17 tournament, the team still did terribly. That program gives many of the future U17 team's players more total training time with NT coaches then they had before and also serves as a chance for additional scouting.

They also obviously do not just draw from the MLS academies. The U15 showcase had teams from the three MLS academies and FC Edmonton as well as a Canada U15 Selects team, which included 23 players from clubs from all across the country who had been scouted through the EXCEL program: https://canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-announces-teams-and-schedule-for-u-15-showcase-p160785

Canada Soccer has not only scouted across the country, but brought all the best '02 players in the country together so that they could be directly compared. The squad that came out of the U15 ID camps and showcase had 11 MLS academy players, 6 players from other Canadian clubs and 1 from abroad. But clearly they don't do any scouting and the only reason there are any MLS players on our youth teams because the CSA is "lazy", obviously.

Also, perhaps most importantly, while you guys seem so keen to somehow pin the MLS academy players dominating our youth teams on the CSA, you're forgetting that the CSA doesn't make selections for the YNTs, the manager of the team does. I assumed that would be obvious, but apparently not.

[Ivan]

Anyone familiar enough with the players in this age group to provide a scouting report on who to watch for? 

[Vince193]

1 minute ago, Ivan said:

Anyone familiar enough with the players in this age group to provide a scouting report on who to watch for? 

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Simon Colyn who hopefully will be released for this tournament.

[Fullback]

Rafael Pinzon was the star of the U15 championships. Solid attacker scored a couple for us. Played for Pachuca youth teams at the time and I have no idea if he still wants to represent us or if he’s got a shot with the Mexican team.

[SpecialK]

4 hours ago, Zem said:

As you can see on that page, they have had multiple ID camps for the 2002 age group from late 2016 to 2017, plus the 2017 U15 showcase and 2017 CONCACAF U15 Championship.

And it shouldn't be a joke to you because it isn't some kind of wild coincidence that most of our youth national team players come from three of the best acdemies in the country, and the program directly addresses everyone's complaints that despite having youth friendlies in the lead-up to tournaments our youth teams always seem uncoordinated. Let's not forget that despite having many of your all-important friendlies in the lead-up to the last U17 tournament, the team still did terribly. That program gives many of the future U17 team's players more total training time with NT coaches then they had before and also serves as a chance for additional scouting.

They also obviously do not just draw from the MLS academies. The U15 showcase had teams from the three MLS academies and FC Edmonton as well as a Canada U15 Selects team, which included 23 players from clubs from all across the country who had been scouted through the EXCEL program: https://canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-announces-teams-and-schedule-for-u-15-showcase-p160785

Canada Soccer has not only scouted across the country, but brought all the best '02 players in the country together so that they could be directly compared. The squad that came out of the U15 ID camps and showcase had 11 MLS academy players, 6 players from other Canadian clubs and 1 from abroad. But clearly they don't do any scouting and the only reason there are any MLS players on our youth teams because the CSA is "lazy", obviously.

Also, perhaps most importantly, while you guys seem so keen to somehow pin the MLS academy players dominating our youth teams on the CSA, you're forgetting that the CSA doesn't make selections for the YNTs, the manager of the team does. I assumed that would be obvious, but apparently not.

Who hires the manager ? When was the last time Canada had a  professional youth manager. It’s just been CSA bag men ! And the CSA hires them. Now it’s Herdman’s bag men!

Based on past rosters, On avg how many players who are based outside of the MLS  academies get called up for youth teams ? I would say 1-3 players. 

Look at past  results. Our MLS based roster lost to CUBA last time ! 

The CSA is  biased towards MLS  Academy players and it’s a joke! They want Canadian players, from Canadian teams why because it’s cheap, they don’t have do any work and if they get a  Diamond in the rough, they take the  Credit for it. They don’t give a shit about winning ! And if you people don’t see it will that’s just sad!

[Corazon]

13 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

The CSA is  biased towards MLS  Academy players and it’s a joke! They want Canadian players, from Canadian teams why because it’s cheap, they don’t have do any work and if they get a  Diamond in the rough, they take the  Credit for it. They don’t give a shit about winning ! And if you people don’t see it will that’s just sad!

I know this is a bit off topic but somewhat relevant at the same time.  Octavio Zambrano mentioned numerous times during his tenure as Head Coach the importance of exploring other avenues ("outside the box") for Canadian talent that is historically missed.

I am sure many from this group board remember the interview with Zambrano just months before his shock dismissal.  I agree on so many levels the ideas and tactics Zambrano was trying to put into place.  If you haven't read the article, its worth the read because it talks a lot about what we feel is missing with Canadian soccer.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/octavio-zambrano-1.4343605

 

Reading the article now, makes a lot more sense as to why he was let go.  Its not hard to believe that his "recruiting plan" likely was shut down.  Likely with the support of the big 3 MLS franchises in this country.

From article "We need to establish a solid scouting grid," said Zambrano. "That is something I have presented to the CSA directors, in how to go about doing this in a systemic manner.

"I'm hoping that they sign off on it. If they do, we will reach a completely different level of awareness about what we really have in Canada. Because we do have a lot and I think we're tapping only a very little."

 

Zambrano was also a big fan of playing as many friendlies as possible.  Judging by the quote below, the CSA likely didn't agree too much with this.  It's clear based on our schedule last year that the CSA was not a fan of additional games and last year Herdman was real quick to talk about "no desire" or "no need" for additional friendlies for the National team. 

From article "He is grateful to the CSA for adding another warmup game before the Gold Cup. A game against Curacao was all that was originally planned.

Zambrano wanted more and a closed-door session against Nicaragua — four 30-minute periods over two days in Sunrise, Fla., was arranged.

"It was a wise decision by the CSA because it was in that game where a lot of the thoughts about how to approach the Gold Cup came together."

 

I know I went off topic and brought up some past skeletons but I felt the discussion of recruitment based on MLS teams was relevant to the article and to where CSA's plan seems to lie.  I thought it was funny that almost everything Zambrano was preaching in this interview seems to be the opposite stance of the CSA.

[Keegan]

5 hours ago, Zem said:

As you can see on that page, they have had multiple ID camps for the 2002 age group from late 2016 to 2017, plus the 2017 U15 showcase and 2017 CONCACAF U15 Championship.

And it shouldn't be a joke to you because it isn't some kind of wild coincidence that most of our youth national team players come from three of the best acdemies in the country, and the program directly addresses everyone's complaints that despite having youth friendlies in the lead-up to tournaments our youth teams always seem uncoordinated. Let's not forget that despite having many of your all-important friendlies in the lead-up to the last U17 tournament, the team still did terribly. That program gives many of the future U17 team's players more total training time with NT coaches then they had before and also serves as a chance for additional scouting.

They also obviously do not just draw from the MLS academies. The U15 showcase had teams from the three MLS academies and FC Edmonton as well as a Canada U15 Selects team, which included 23 players from clubs from all across the country who had been scouted through the EXCEL program: https://canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-announces-teams-and-schedule-for-u-15-showcase-p160785

Canada Soccer has not only scouted across the country, but brought all the best '02 players in the country together so that they could be directly compared. The squad that came out of the U15 ID camps and showcase had 11 MLS academy players, 6 players from other Canadian clubs and 1 from abroad. But clearly they don't do any scouting and the only reason there are any MLS players on our youth teams because the CSA is "lazy", obviously.

Also, perhaps most importantly, while you guys seem so keen to somehow pin the MLS academy players dominating our youth teams on the CSA, you're forgetting that the CSA doesn't make selections for the YNTs, the manager of the team does. I assumed that would be obvious, but apparently not.

I don’t know if you realize, but it’s February 2019.  Calling a u15 camp from 2/3 years ago “preparation” for a u17 tournament this year is a joke. By that logic our MNT is set for qualifying because we had a u23 camp in 2016.  Do you really think nothing has changed in the last 2 years?  2 years at that age is a lifetime in soccer. 

You need to keep on these things.  So no, this is not the most prepared Canadian u17 team or even close to it.  

There are 2 players that were eligible for our last u17 team at the time of qualifying who are now on our MNT.. neither was on a MLS academy squad.  Forgive me for not wanting our squad selection to be focused on 3 teams and their internal selection policies.  Here’s also a fact.. Liam Millar was released from TFC Academy, meaning he would never have a chance to make this squad.

Your last point is your most apologetic yet: “don’t blame the CSA for squad selection, they only hire the coach and he picks the team”.. come on man. 

So yes, the system is broken, lazy or whatever you want to call it. 

Let me reiterate: to this date, there has been ZERO preparation for a squad to compete at the u17 championship.  That is a fact - visiting three academy teams and hosting an ID camp TWO YEARS AGO is not prep. 

Edit: and I’m not saying what happened a few years back was bad.  It’s good to evaluate at all times but that means at least quarterly not semi-annually.  They should have found their core and had camps where they played matches and these kids fought for spots and the team grew. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Keegan

[SpecialK]

Hey what a wonderful  opportunity to try to get MF/ST Marcelo Flores playing at Arsenal into the Canadian fold. Do you think he’ll switch ? Mexican father and Canadian Mother . 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-eye-mexican-wonder-kid-12819645.amp

Edited February 22, 2019 by SpecialK

[Jith12]

11 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Hey what a wonderful  opportunity to try to get MF/ST Marcelo Flores playing at Arsenal into the Canadian fold. Do you think he’ll switch ? Mexican father and Canadian Mother . 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-eye-mexican-wonder-kid-12819645.amp

I don't think that he would have to switch because he hasn't played internationally for anyone yet. IIRC I read somewhere that his family is interesting because his older sister plays for Mexico, his younger sister wants to play for England and he wants to play for Canada. I'll try to find the link.

Edit: I found it, but I'm not sure what his source is though

Could be a great addition to the U17's.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jith12

[Blackdude]

Looks like Marc Kouadio will go to the first camp that will happen from March 4 to 14 in Mexico City. 

https://www.mvasima.com/news_article/show/998472

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Blackdude said:

Looks like Marc Kouadio will go to the first camp that will happen from March 4 to 14 in Mexico City. 

https://www.mvasima.com/news_article/show/998472

Kid's getting some good coaching by the sounds of it.

[Blackjack15]

The U15 Team did pretty well in the 2017 CONCACAF Championship losing in the semifinals to Mexico but defeating Costa Rica and Trinidad in the process, I'd expect a lot of the same players from this age group to move over. 

I do hope CSA aren't complete imbeciles and actually reach out to Marcelo Flores who's at Arsenal's Academy! And has publicly stated he wants to play for Canada. Hope we can provisionally cap-tie him by joining for the first time and suiting up for our U17's

Edited February 28, 2019 by Thomas

[Corazon]

Has anyone seen a heard or seen a list of invitees to the 11 day camp starting on Monday? Or are we going to have to wait until May to see the final roster?