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2019 CONCACAF U17 Championship

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Good squad.  Will be interesting to see how they get Colyn, Habibullah, Russell-Rowe and Nelson all on the same pitch.  A lot of attacking firepower there.

 

and no Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, although he is 15

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Here we go again with Olivieri at the helm, and just 3 MLS academies representing Canada as a whole, this can't equal success 

How is he able to keep his job and select his roster off just VWFC, TFC and IMFC!? It's because the CSA are mediocre that's why

After the U20 collapse, where they crapped the bed vs St Kitts, change of coach and broaden your selection process would have been expected? Only in Canada fellas is this acceptable 

Will be surprised if anything changes, although if it does won't be because of Olivieri but rather individual players like Colyn, Nelson, and Dunning of Feyenoord who will take front stage and are just that much better than the rest of the squad who many are questionable picks 

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25 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

Here we go again with Olivieri at the helm, and just 3 MLS academies representing Canada as a whole, this can't equal success 

How is he able to keep his job and select his roster off just VWFC, TFC and IMFC!? It's because the CSA are mediocre that's why

After the U20 collapse, where they crapped the bed vs St Kitts, change of coach and broaden your selection process would have been expected? Only in Canada fellas is this acceptable 

Will be surprised if anything changes, although if it does won't be because of Olivieri but rather individual players like Colyn, Nelson, and Dunning of Feyenoord who will take front stage and are just that much better than the rest of the squad who many are questionable picks 

Just wondering then if you have seen the complete list of players who declined invitations or were not released by their clubs? Actual insight would be nice if you can provide any. 

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1 hour ago, soccer.shocker said:

Just wondering then if you have seen the complete list of players who declined invitations or were not released by their clubs? Actual insight would be nice if you can provide any. 

This is partly true, most clubs in Europe won't release their players and various dual nationals aren't interested, although my point is that there's many others around North America but the CSA is too cheap and lazy to actually scout for once at the youth level. Jonathan David wasn't on any of the 3 MLS academies and was at a local set up club in Ottawa, Canada soccer turns their back on the grassroots but reallt that's where players first got their chance and then the big 3 scoop them up and take all the credit too in the process! How many players has the whitecaps, TFC and impact rejected and have been proven wrong? Liam Millar was let go from TFC before going over to England and getting on with fulham! So some Canadian coaches simply don't know how to identify talent or what they're looking for in this case.

Ive said this before and I will continue to say it again, Canada is much more than Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal

OZ said in 2017 that "we're tapping into very little" and he's 100% right. However the CSA have some sort of agreement with them and just asks them to send some kids over just like that 

No journalists care or know enough to actually ask, or are afraid to lose their access. It's okay to ask tough questions and challenge things, the track record for youth world cups is not a good one 

 

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Posted (edited)

What's the story on Jamie Dunning? I know he's a dual nat with the USA, but does someone have any further insight/info?

Edited by El Diego

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4 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Here we go again with Olivieri at the helm, and just 3 MLS academies representing Canada as a whole, this can't equal success 

How is he able to keep his job and select his roster off just VWFC, TFC and IMFC!? It's because the CSA are mediocre that's why

After the U20 collapse, where they crapped the bed vs St Kitts, change of coach and broaden your selection process would have been expected? Only in Canada fellas is this acceptable 

Will be surprised if anything changes, although if it does won't be because of Olivieri but rather individual players like Colyn, Nelson, and Dunning of Feyenoord who will take front stage and are just that much better than the rest of the squad who many are questionable picks 

So when the team fails it's the coaches fault, but when they succeed the coach gets no credit? I think you're showing some bias there.

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4 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Here we go again with Olivieri at the helm, and just 3 MLS academies representing Canada as a whole, this can't equal success 

How is he able to keep his job and select his roster off just VWFC, TFC and IMFC!? It's because the CSA are mediocre that's why

So who are the obvious omissions then? For all we know this is the strongest U17 in years. Can't tell on the selection alone...

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The 16 year old kids at the MLS programs are getting very good coaching and are being exposed to tournies like the GA that showcased a lot of the kids on this roster. Unless we have kids overseas etc getting similar experience chances are these will be the kids that are the most prepared.  I guess we have to take it on faith that the MLS clubs are beating the bushes in their particular areas of canada to ID talent and get kids into the academy. 

But players will fall through the cracks and maybe the CSA isnt very proactive at getting duals from overseas on these teams so its definately not perfect.  The one glaring spot that seems to get overlooked is Sigma.  They run a bunch of good players through there and their graduates go on  to big things but they never seem to place anyone on these rosters.  

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After a decade, you might expect the MLS academies to be pretty good at scouting and that the overall level of their academies has risen as well. Besides, there are barely other legit clubs to scout from. FC Edmonton gets raided by Whitecas of the biggest talents. One would think Sigma has the same problem. 

One more argument for the MLS academies: kids nowadays don't need to go oversees to have a shot, they have a path right here. So possibly there's fewer of "the ones that fell through" anyway. Hence my question, who are those other options?

We'll have to see how t goes to before judging this team. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

So when the team fails it's the coaches fault, but when they succeed the coach gets no credit? I think you're showing some bias there.

No bias, it's just that Olivieri is very incompetent, he should have never been hired as coach of U17-U20's, there are far better options than him and Herdman said there was ton of resumes coming in from Europe UEFA A Liscense and experience in some of the best academies 

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

So who are the obvious omissions then? For all we know this is the strongest U17 in years. Can't tell on the selection alone...

Marcelo Flores for one is the biggest omission. This group does have a few names that have looked very good in USSDA play, like: Simon Colyn, Kamron Habibullah and Jayden Nelson look promising. As well as the addition of Jamie Dunning from U17 Erevidise | Feyenoord 

58 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The 16 year old kids at the MLS programs are getting very good coaching and are being exposed to tournies like the GA that showcased a lot of the kids on this roster. Unless we have kids overseas etc getting similar experience chances are these will be the kids that are the most prepared.  I guess we have to take it on faith that the MLS clubs are beating the bushes in their particular areas of canada to ID talent and get kids into the academy. 

But players will fall through the cracks and maybe the CSA isnt very proactive at getting duals from overseas on these teams so its definately not perfect.  The one glaring spot that seems to get overlooked is Sigma.  They run a bunch of good players through there and their graduates go on  to big things but they never seem to place anyone on these rosters.  

The Generation Adidas tournament for all MLS Academies is very good, playing against top competition from Liga MX, Brazil, Argentina etc. I will agree it's very good quality and let's you know where Canadians are at. The thing is there's plenty of talent available overseas, I could make a long list that would be eye opening and quite frankly sad, I do have faith in MLS academies, but the very best from each of the 3 should represent us not just those 3 teams, there's plenty of unearthed hidden talent we have to be aware of. In 2015 there was a ID Camp for the U15 showcase, that was a success, they should do more things like that. Once all 6 CPL clubs open up academies plus Ottawa fury and the expansion teams in the future things will never be the same, the size of Canada potential is high if we utilize it correctly 

Sigma does produce reallt great players, and they arrange trials all the time for guys to go abroad to test themselves against other sides. Very underrated, various top names in our NT were developed there, they don't get enough credit for what they deserve. For example when Larin was Under 18 before going to NCAA he wasn't really called up to Canada, until he ripped L1O apart and then the same in Conneticut until being drafted #1 overall At the MLS super draft by Orlando a year later. Proof that the scouting needs a lot of work

13 minutes ago, shamrock said:

After a decade, you might expect the MLS academies to be pretty good at scouting and that the overall level of their academies has risen as well. Besides, there are barely other legit clubs to scout from. FC Edmonton gets raided by Whitecas of the biggest talents. One would think Sigma has the same problem. 

We'll have to see how t goes to before judging this team. 

+1 

Of course we'll have to "wait and see" before we make a any judgments, but I'm not that optimistic unless they out the team together in advance which NEVER happens, were facing US who are much stronger than we are, won't be easy. If we get eliminated from the group stage is it considered a failure? I think yes or atleast ir should be 

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

What's the story on Jamie Dunning? I know he's a daul nat with the USA, but does someone have any further insight/info?

He's also a British citizen/ passport holder. Was with FC Dallas before the successful trial with Feyenoord in May of last year and signing officially in July

Heres a Highlight reel from his 2018-2019 season in U17 Erevidise: 

 

 

Edited by Blackjack15

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5 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

No bias, it's just that Olivieri is very incompetent, he should have never been hired as coach of U17-U20's, there are far better options than him and Herdman said there was ton of resumes coming in from Europe UEFA A Liscense and experience in some of the best academies 

Marcelo Flores for one is the biggest omission. This group does have a few names that have looked very good in USSDA play, like: Simon Colyn, Kamron Habibullah and Jayden Nelson look promising. As well as the addition of Jamie Dunning from U17 Erevidise | Feyenoord 

The Generation Adidas tournament for all MLS Academies is very good, playing against top competition from Liga MX, Brazil, Argentina etc. I will agree it's very good quality and let's you know where Canadians are at. The thing is there's plenty of talent available overseas, I could make a long list that would be eye opening and quite frankly sad, I do have faith in MLS academies, but the very best from each of the 3 should represent us not just those 3 teams, there's plenty of unearthed hidden talent we have to be aware of. In 2015 there was a ID Camp for the U15 showcase, that was a success, they should do more things like that. Once all 6 CPL clubs open up academies plus Ottawa fury and the expansion teams in the future things will never be the same, the size of Canada potential is high if we utilize it correctly 

Sigma does produce reallt great players, and they arrange trials all the time for guys to go abroad to test themselves against other sides. Very underrated, various top names in our NT were developed there, they don't get enough credit for what they deserve. For example when Larin was Under 18 before going to NCAA he wasn't really called up to Canada, until he ripped L1O apart and then the same in Conneticut until being drafted #1 overall At the MLS super draft by Orlando a year later. Proof that the scouting needs a lot of work

+1 

Of course we'll have to "wait and see" before we make a any judgments, but I'm not that optimistic unless they out the team together in advance which NEVER happens, were facing US who are much stronger than we are, won't be easy. If we get eliminated from the group stage is it considered a failure? I think yes or atleast ir should be 

He's also a British citizen/ passport holder. Was with FC Dallas before the successful trial with Feyenoord in May of last year and signing officially in July

Heres a Highlight reel from his 2018-2019 season in U17 Erevidise: 

 

 

So the only omission is Flores?

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

So the only omission is Flores?

Negative, we can go through a list if you'd like. Why do you think that 3 MLS teams equals of Canada has to offer? If you think that well that's very biased 

Its basically if Portugal were to compete at the Euros U17 with only players from Benfica, Porto and Sporting Lisbon. But no, they actually scout talent across all the other Primeira Liga teams and if there is any hidden gems / diamonds in the rough in 2nd/3rd div as well as dual nationals all over in Europe; especially France, Spain, Germany where many hundreds of thousands of Portuguese immigrated for economic reasons In the last 50 or so years etc.

Remember that Stephen Eustaquio was playing at lexiaos in the second division when called in for U21's 

Now Portugal have 10 million and Canada has 37. Also one has 3 established divisions with academy set ups and one does not.

FCE is the only other academy available which is pretty much raided by whitecaps as they pouch they're best. The fury had one a few years back? They closed it. And the other 7 CPL teams are just starting up the first teams and worrying about professional soccer for now but eventually will have to open U18, U16, U14 teams within their respective communities/areas.

So it's mixed effort, there's only so much CSA can do but they're not even doing that! 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

Negative, we can go through a list if you'd like. Why do you think that 3 MLS teams equals of Canada has to offer? If you think that well that's very biased 

Its basically if Portugal were to compete at the Euros U17 with only players from Benfica, Porto and Sporting Lisbon. But no, they actually scout talent across all the other Primeira Liga teams and if there is any hidden gems / diamonds in the rough in 2nd/3rd div as well as dual nationals all over in Europe; especially France, Spain, Germany where many hundreds of thousands of Portuguese immigrated for economic reasons In the last 50 or so years etc.

Remember that Stephen Eustaquio was playing at lexiaos in the second division when called in for U21's 

Now Portugal have 10 million and Canada has 37. Also one has 3 established divisions with academy set ups and one does not.

FCE is the only other academy available which is pretty much raided by whitecaps as they pouch they're best. The fury had one a few years back? They closed it. And the other 7 CPL teams are just starting up the first teams and worrying about professional soccer for now but eventually will have to open U18, U16, U14 teams within their respective communities/areas.

So it's mixed effort, there's only so much CSA can do but they're not even doing that! 

 

 

Soooooooo... Who are the kids who have been omitted?

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2 hours ago, Ivan2.0 said:

Flores isn't on Mexico's roster either.  Perhaps he has decided to sit this tourney out?

Flores played for Mexico U16 at the Tournoi Montaigu in France last week. I'm not sure how he did.

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Soooooooo... Who are the kids who have been omitted?

Mckail Braithwaite in Edmonton is a star, but he is only 15 so possible they wanted a more experienced player. There are several others in Edmonton who could have been chosen in my opinion, but until Canada has it’s own academy cup it will be hard to tell the top players across the rest of the country.

On a side note, Edmonton’s academy has been stripped by the whitecaps in the past. But with the CPL here now the value of domestics, specifically U-21 domestics rises. I think Edmonton will be able to keep their players easier with a first team.

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So who are the kids being omitted???  Flores doesnt count if he is repping mexico.  Listing a bunch of duals doesnt mean much either because you are never sure what kind of ties they have to Canada and what their future plans are for INT soccer. 

Are there kids at Sigma that deserve a look? Does anyone know?  

You cant use Portugal as a stick to beat CSA with.  Sure they pull from all over, BECAUSE their are good pro clubs and programs all over.  We have  3 top clubs, 3 top acadamies, and basically thats it for now.  Its not like there are another 10 out there they are ignoring.  They have pulled from Edmonton in the past and got David in camp even though he spurned the MLS clubs.  And there is usually a sprinkling of foreign based dual kids.  

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Anyone think Olivieri is on the hot seat if he does not get results for the U17? 

I thought the U20 team was short on talent but this squad looks strong and that means more should be expected.

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Posted (edited)

It said specifically in the press release CSA has been actively working WITH clubs in identifying potential Internationals, so they were interested in these kids probably before they even went to the academies. I have faith in the fact that these are the best we havre ATM.

How this group compares with other nations U17 is anyones guess, however the results in Dallas give us some reason for optimism. 

Edited by shamrock

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On 4/24/2019 at 11:29 PM, Blackjack15 said:

Jonathan David wasn't on any of the 3 MLS academies and was at a local set up club in Ottawa, Canada soccer turns their back on the grassroots but reallt that's where players first got their chance and then the big 3 scoop them up and take all the credit too in the process!

 

OZ said in 2017 that "we're tapping into very little" and he's 100% right. However the CSA have some sort of agreement with them and just asks them to send some kids over just like that

Jonathan David was on the U17 team that competed in Panama in 2017.  Along with Benson Fazili (member of the same local Ottawa club).

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