The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[SpursFlu]

12 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Basketball is definitely more popular than hockey worldwide, but I don’t buy the argument that Nash is better than Gretzky because of it. The gap isn’t that large.
 

Just look at the makeup of the NBA, it’s 75% Americans. The NHL is less than 50% Canadian and about 25% American. So at the highest level, it’s more diverse than basketball really. 

Now obviously, that doesn’t mean that hockey is more popular but I don’t think the difference is that big. There are more people in the states than Canada which helps explain how they dominate the sport so much compared to Canadians dominating hockey. 

Ok so you could create premise in which you said fine. Well Michael Jordan wasn't great at Basketball because I'm going to disregard everyone on the planet under 6'5 because even though they play and love the sport, statistics show the odds they reach the top level dramatically decrease. Then from all the people over 6'5 on the planet how many grew up playing basketball.  There goes 75% of those people. So really Michael Jordan wasn't great because he was really just the best of a few 100 thousand people at the time on the planet who played basketball who logically had any significant hope of competing at the top level of the sport. Regardless of all the other people trying their best to do so

Edited March 22, 2020 by SpursFlu

[SpursFlu]

4 minutes ago, T.I.O.R. said:

Whatever happened to the World Cup of Hockey? Just when it looked like the African countries were really starting to make progress, and also at a time when great strides were being made in Asia and South America the World Cup of Hockey seems to have gone up in smoke and disappeared off the face of the Earth! Mighty strange indeed!

Yah I know. I remember that. That's an excellent point. Ecuador was robbed

[archer21]

8 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Ok so you could create premise in which you said fine. Well Michael Jordan wasn't great at Basketball because I'm going to disregard everyone on the planet under 6'5 because even though they play and love the sport, statistics show the odds they reach the top level dramatically decrease. Then from all the people over 6'5 on the planet how many grew up playing basketball.  There goes 75% of those people. So really Michael Jordan wasn't great because he was really just the best of a few 100 thousand people at the time on the planet who played basketball who logically had any significant hope of competing at the top level of the sport. Regardless of all the other people trying their best to do so

My point is that the gap isn’t THAT large that you can say Nash (a top 25-50 player maybe) is better than Gretzky (the best to ever do it). 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, archer21 said:

My point is that the gap isn’t THAT large that you can say Nash (a top 25-50 player maybe) is better than Gretzky (the best to ever do it). 

It's a good point. But back to back MVPs by a 6'1 guard who grew practicing by himself in a tiny gym in Victoria. I think its amazing. It's a very subjective conversation. Also credit Nash, since it's a soccer forum, for bringing elements of football to basketball. In the way he looked st the defense and moved the ball. He's talked about it often. They're both good answers

Edited March 22, 2020 by SpursFlu

[N1ckbr0wn]

15 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Dude have you ever been to Asia? Hugely popular in China and Philippines. Theres a billion people right there. The sports in USA, not even close. All of Southern Europe. Eastern Europe its huge. Very popular in Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina. Australia and New Zealand. It goes on and on. Hockey v Basketball isn't even close. 

Yes, I don’t disagree. But I also think you underestimate the amount of countries that also watch/play hockey more then then basketball. I’m not going to name the obvious countries, but Denmark, Austria, Poland, Latvia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Japan, Korea are just some off the top of my head that I’m willing to bet Ice Hockey is more followed, played and watched in those countries. I’m also willing to bet in countries like Germany, France and Italy there isn’t much of a gap, if any at all. This isn’t even including the obvious countries. While I’m not saying Hockey is BIGGER then basketball, I Think your comment claiming “it’s not even close” is just not accurate. If anything, they’re probably pretty comparable on the world stage
 

edit: I follow international Ice Hockey and basketball probably just as much as I follow international soccer. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by N1ckbr0wn

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Quarantine cabin fever clearly setting in

 

https://www.tiktok.com/@alphonsodavies?lang=en

[Snowcrash]

8 hours ago, archer21 said:

My point is that the gap isn’t THAT large that you can say Nash (a top 25-50 player maybe) is better than Gretzky (the best to ever do it). 

Steve Nash winning  back-to-back MVP's is like a kid from China playing high school hockey in Harbin and then 4 years of hockey at York and then going to the NHL and winning back-to-back MVP's.

[Snowcrash]

5 hours ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

Yes, I don’t disagree. But I also think you underestimate the amount of countries that also watch/play hockey more then then basketball. I’m not going to name the obvious countries, but Denmark, Austria, Poland, Latvia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Japan, Korea are just some off the top of my head that I’m willing to bet Ice Hockey is more followed, played and watched in those countries. I’m also willing to bet in countries like Germany, France and Italy there isn’t much of a gap, if any at all. This isn’t even including the obvious countries. While I’m not saying Hockey is BIGGER then basketball, I Think your comment claiming “it’s not even close” is just not accurate. If anything, they’re probably pretty comparable on the world stage
 

edit: I follow international Ice Hockey and basketball probably just as much as I follow international soccer. 

You list the number of countries but you neglect to mention their population, which is not large relative to those countries where basketball completely dominates hockey.  Philippines population 100M. China population 1.4B.  Brazil population 104M. Argentina population 44M. Spain population 46M. 

Lots of other basketball countries where hockey doesn't register so as a rough guess, there are probably 10 times more people who follow basketball than hockey.

[JuicyHam]

13 minutes ago, T.I.O.R. said:

https://sportsshow.net/top-10-most-popular-sports-in-the-world/

Here is a Table of Top 10 Popular Sports

rank	Sport	Estimated Fans	Regional Popularity
1.	Soccer / Association Football	3.5 Billion	Europe, Africa, Asia, America
2.	Cricket	2.5 Billion	Asia, Australia, UK
3.	Basketball	2.2 Billion	US, Canada, China, and the Philippines
4.	Field Hockey	2 Billion	Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia
5.	Tennis	1 Billion	Europe, Americas, and Asia
6.	Volleyball	900 Million	Asia, Europe, Americas, and Australia
7.	Table Tennis	850 Million	Asia, Europe, Africa and Americas
8.	Baseball	500 Million	US, Japan, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic
9	Americal Football   Rugby	410 Million   410 Million	USA mainly   France, England, New Zealand, South Africa
10	Golf	390 Million	Europe, Asia, America, Canada

I was going to mention cricket based on numbers alone 

[SpursFlu]

Sorry what was the question again? Who was the best Canadian athlete or which Canadian athlete is most well known in the world?

Didn't Dana White try and make this same point about GSP over Gretzky

I think it was a fact that more people watch the Stanley Cup in China than Canada. So what then. At then end of the day is subjective. There is no wrong answer. Like what's the best food or who is the best looking woman. Its an opinion

Edited March 23, 2020 by SpursFlu

[JuicyHam]

1 hour ago, T.I.O.R. said:

Another way to measure the popularity of a sport would be to research how many countries consider soccer to be their national sport as opposed to basketball, hockey, etc. I'll go out on a limb on this one and say that its:

For 211 countries its soccer (Davies)

For 1 country its ice-hockey (Gretzky)

I understand your point but there are a lot of countries where the most popular sport is not the "national sport". Hockey is the national sport in more than one nation though including: Canada, Russia, and Czech Republic. You might even find more countries who have the national sport of Baseball and Cricket popping up just as frequently as football. 

I understand where you are coming from though 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

You list the number of countries but you neglect to mention their population, which is not large relative to those countries where basketball completely dominates hockey.  Philippines population 100M. China population 1.4B.  Brazil population 104M. Argentina population 44M. Spain population 46M. 

Lots of other basketball countries where hockey doesn't register so as a rough guess, there are probably 10 times more people who follow basketball than hockey.

Not that it affects your point, but Brazil’s population is actually slightly more than double that.

[SthMelbRed]

10 hours ago, T.I.O.R. said:

I also remember, when the Netherlands somehow managed to qualify for the 1980 Winter Olympics, with a roster comprised of mostly Dutch/Canadian players. The Netherlands in their first Olympic match faced Canada, and some Dutch goon I believe knocked Guy Lafleur out of the game during the first minute of play. On the ensuing power-play, the Dutch managed to score the opening goal to go up 1-nil. However, that's where the fairy-tale ended, as Canada went on to rout the Dutch 10-1.

I don't think there's anyone in the Netherlands today, who could recall a single name of any of the players on that team.

https://search.proquest.com/hnpglobeandmail/docview/1125037047/FB6690F6534E44FCPQ/84?accountid=5705

The Netherlands competed in the 1980 Olympic ice hockey competition. They then competed in Pool A of the 1981 World Ice Hockey Championships.

In the 1980 Winter Olympics, The Netherlands, competed in the Red division group, and had a record of 1–3–1. They lost to Canada (10–1), they lost to the Soviet Union (17–4), they tied Japan (3–3), they beat Poland (5–3), and they lost to Finland (10–3).

One year later, the team returned to the top division in the 1981 World Ice Hockey Championships. In the first round, the team lost all of their games, followed by another 3 losses in the final round.

I'd like to hear more about Guy Lafleur playing in the '80 Olympics, and a bit of an explanation of how a Dutch goon knocked him out of the game AND was rewarded with a 2-minute power-play for it, to boot.

[SpursFlu]

13 hours ago, T.I.O.R. said:

Another way to measure the popularity of a sport would be to research how many countries consider soccer to be their national sport as opposed to basketball, hockey, etc. I'll go out on a limb on this one and say that its:

For 211 countries its soccer (Davies)

For 1 country its ice-hockey (Gretzky)

Your an interesting guy. You joined this forum during a global pandemic to have a discussion about Alphonso Davies being Canada's greatest athlete. 

You have a big passion for Canadian sport. That's awesome

Edited March 23, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

21 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Your an interesting guy. You joined this forum during a global pandemic to have a discussion about Alphonso Davies being Canada's greatest athlete. 

You have a big passion for Canadian sport. That's awesome

It’s he just one on Robert’s many names?  I find him best to ignore. 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

It’s he just one on Robert’s many names?  I find him best to ignore. 

Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't realized there were people here intentionally trying to pee in the pool. At least this firestarter loves Alphonso Davies as much as I do lol

[Macksam]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:48 PM, N1ckbr0wn said:

Respectfully disagree, i wouldn't say Basketball is much more of a "world sport" then hockey. Both have relatively large followings outside of North America.

 

On 3/21/2020 at 7:58 PM, SpursFlu said:

Dude have you ever been to Asia? Hugely popular in China and Philippines. Theres a billion people right there. The sports in USA, not even close. All of Southern Europe. Eastern Europe its huge. Very popular in Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina. Australia and New Zealand. It goes on and on. Hockey v Basketball isn't even close. 

 

On 3/21/2020 at 8:15 PM, An Observer said:

I would completely agree with this.  Basketball is way more popular around the world than hockey.  I would say that Rugby is more popular than hockey as well. 

The one thing hockey has going for it is that in 3 or 4 of its 6 or 7 markets where it’s popular, it might be the dominant sport which makes the National following more intense and akin to soccer at World Cup time.  Basketball is no where near the most popular sport in its dominant markets including its home the US.

You all make good points and no doubt basketball is more popular worldwide, but when it comes to international competition, soccer is obviously number one but the distant second has to be ice hockey mostly due to the fact it was used as a political muscle flex by the Soviet Union during the cold war. I can't think of any other sport (besides soccer) creating as many dramatic moments on the international stage from the Summit Series to the Miracle on ice to 87, etc.

[Strait Red]

6 hours ago, T.I.O.R. said:

I said I believed it was Lafleur. He's the one who comes to mind. And it was Canada who went on the power-play, so to clarify, the Dutch scored a short-handed goal. That's about all I remember of this game, which took place 40 years ago.

NHL players didn’t participate at the 1980 Olympics (first participation was 1998 in Nagano) - this happened at the 1981 World Championship, Canada’s team  is usually populated by players whose teams didn’t participate in the playoffs or were eliminated early. In Lafleur’s case, the Canadiens were eliminated in the first round and he joined the team. Canada defeated the Dutch 8-1 in the preliminary round. I found the below information to validate your information.

 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

 

 

You all make good points and no doubt basketball is more popular worldwide, but when it comes to international competition, soccer is obviously number one but the distant second has to be ice hockey mostly due to the fact it was used as a political muscle flex by the Soviet Union during the cold war. I can't think of any other sport (besides soccer) creating as many dramatic moments on the international stage from the Summit Series to the Miracle on ice to 87, etc.

Mostly due to the fact that it frigging cold in Canada and frigging hot in most other parts of the world. It's kinda that simple 

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, T.I.O.R. said:

 

I'm sure your a good person but I hope your getting paid double if your task is to get Canadians to hate each other. Especially in times like this. We look out for each other and stick together. We even look out for you. No matter who you really are or where you really are

[Strait Red]

25 minutes ago, T.I.O.R. said:

Thank you for clearing up the confusion pertaining to Guy Lafleur. I must concede, I'm not the world's most avid follower of hockey, and obviously the one or two times I really got pissed and wasted over the course of the past 40 years have had an effect on my ability to recall certain events. No excuses though, my apologies for the misinformation. I did find it interesting, however, to learn that Glenn Anderson was the youngest player on the Canadian team. I wonder if he had an NHL contract at the time of the Olympics?

Anderson was drafted by the Oilers but did not sign until after the Olympics. A handful of other Canadians went onto careers in the NHL as players and coaches.

[Weng]

“Gretzky was the Great One, but he never inspired a generation of youths to pick up a hockey stick, because Canada had already produced a whole slew of hockey legends long before Wayne was born.”
 

I disagree. I think Gretzky caused a generation of youths to excel and push themselves at a greater level than ever before.  Not just in Canada but across the hockey playing world.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Weng

[Bison44]

"Gretzky was the Great One, but he never inspired a generation of youths to pick up a hockey stick, because Canada had already produced a whole slew of hockey legends long before Wayne was born."

I remember a era of rock em sock em, bruiser hockey from the 70's that turned a lot of kids off the game. Much like the dangers of concusions turn young football players away today.  Gretzky showed my generation that there was still another side to the game and you didnt have to be a brawler.  

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, anyone downplaying Gretzky’s impact on the game of hockey is really just talking out their ass. Full stop.  

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, T.I.O.R. said:

Okay, just for you, because obviously you didn't understand what I was saying, or else why would you react like I just stepped on your little p#cker?

 

Keep it up there TIOR, Robert or whatever you call yourself, what are you working on your 4th name in the last 6 months??    We should have a pool on how many posts it will be before he gets banned and respawns again.  

You really dont remember the 70's?  Canada wasnt doing anything internationally and we were known for goon style hockey when the russians and europeans were revamping the game with skill and speed.  Gretzky came along (along with Lemeuix et al) put us on top internationally and showed the rest of the world what we could do. And he definitely inspired a generation of CDN kids to pick up sticks.