The Beaver Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 53 minutes ago, Vince193 said: I don't think Herdman is going to have the trust of many of the players. I also think this hurts us with fence sitters. But why? Just speculation? Most of the existing squad will give Herdman a chance, for sure. They might be skeptical, but there is always a level of skepticism and wariness with any new coach. One never knows HOW that coach will assess you and HOW you will get on with them and fit into his plans. The thing that hurts us with fence sitters is that we are, on the world stage, pretty darn crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Agreed. I doubt the mens players avoid caps en masse. If Atiba and Arfield ditch the team, it's to concentrate on dwinling pro career time, not because of the coaching switch. Arfield didn't choose Canada so he could be coached by leading lights. Ledgerwood is already game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, BrennanFan said: I see guys like Hutchinson, Arfield and Hoilett passing on caps until Herdman proves himself. The mens pool is not as easily replaced by teens and NCAA players as is the womens side. Don't be silly. Herdman is no dummy. He knows he has to earn respect, and he'll start doing so by talking to the leaders of his team and asking them to play a key role in executing his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, BrennanFan said: I see guys like Hutchinson, Arfield and Hoilett passing on caps until Herdman proves himself. The mens pool is not as easily replaced by teens and NCAA players as is the womens side. How do you know that? You hang with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialK Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kent said: Lots of people have talked about how Herdman is back stabbing, threatening, putting a gun to the head of the CSA etc. I'm curious what he should have done? It seems to me like the options were one of the following... 1. Just leave for the England job. Which leaves the women's program without him and the men's program with Zambrano, which agree with it or not the CSA preferred to have Herdman in that position over Zambrano. 2. Turn down the England job and wait out his contract with Canada and then leave in 2020. Players can ask to be transferred, but managers can't entertain other options? Managers sometimes get fired for having a run of 3 bad games (in particular in a World Cup/Olympics/etc.) but they have to see out their contract all the way regardless of what better options come along? 3. He could give Canada the option to make him a better offer before leaving for option number 1 above. Seems like this is a better option for both him and the CSA than number 1, because they have the choice. The CSA and Herdman had a ton of options. The CSA and Oz were not on the same page, he wasn't Reed's hire and old boys club at the CSA, so boom Oz gone. Now on Herdman putting a gun to heads to the CSA about the England offer, here's some of the options they had. Option 1 - give Herdman a Youth team to prove himself Option 2- make him an associate coach or assistant coach Option 3 - make him the inter coach for evaluation. Option 4- let Herdman go. Option 5 - make him technical director. Option 6. Give him more money There are better managers that are ahead of Herdman with experience out there. Now if Herdman fails, it's going be a lot harder to find a real manager, because anyone in there right mind would say fuck no im not working for a micromanaging CSA board and President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwilly11 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Only in fucking Canada. Havent been online in a day and just seeing all this. WTF! I dont know much about Oz other then what I saw and read, but from the outside looking in he was OK. The shocker is appointing a guy who never coached the Mens sport to the highest coaching title in the land. Hopefully they prove me wrong, but I have little faith this will go well. The list of free agent MENS managers is huge! https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik Why gamble like this? Just gauging the majority of reactions on here alone is telling! No wonder we are one of the few countries in the world without a pro domestic league. CSA is run by clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califax Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, SpecialK said: The CSA and Herdman had a ton of options. The CSA and Oz were not on the same page, he wasn't Reed's hire and old boys club at the CSA, so boom Oz gone. Now on Herdman putting a gun to heads to the CSA about the England offer, here's some of the options they had. Option 1 - give Herdman a Youth team to prove himself Option 2- make him an associate coach or assistant coach Option 3 - make him the inter coach for evaluation. Option 4- let Herdman go. Option 5 - make him technical director. Option 6. Give him more money There are better managers that are ahead of Herdman with experience out there. Now if Herdman fails, it's going be a lot harder to find a real manager, because anyone in there right mind would say fuck no im not working for a micromanaging CSA board and President. What makes you think they didn't weigh those options. I'm not trying to be rude but you really don't think they thought of "let's pay him more" or "give him another job". They wanted him. Herdman was in a great position of negotiation. He wanted the England women's job. There was one job he wanted more and he leveraged for it. Everyone has to stop staying "guns to their head". If he is what we need in a coach then that wouldn't matter. If it's not, then it's on the CSA. By the way, your last point is spot on. One that will likely come with a higher dollar figure or an early opt-out penalty for our next skipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Marc said: You really do not understand the job of reporter, do you? Matthew has a job to do. You, as a anonymous poster on a bulletin board, doesn't. People like him make this board better and more informed. Posts like yours show ignorance and pollute it. BCM, I hear your frustration. I share it. I have covered a lot of different things and entities over the years and I started a small soccer site largely because I felt there was a void in soccer coverage and it seemed like there was a niche to fill for the CanPL stuff primarily. I’m not being paid and I don’t have a big organization behind me. Which makes things harder. I am pretty easy to get rid of. I wanted to talk to Rob Gale after the failed U20 campaign. That never happened. Rob, FWIW, seems more than happy to talk to me, but he goes through official channels. Which has led me nowhere. I won’t report what I can’t verify. I am not as well connected as Steve Sandor or Duane Rollins (I assume). I don’t know the players well enough to know their dynamics. I started re-thinking some of the quotes I got from veterans. I started thinking about Zambrano’s training sessions I watched. I tried to decide if what I was hearing maybe made some sense with some context or was just people with axes to grind. These are people’s careers and reputations at stake. I usually err on the side of caution. I almost didn’t post anything in the aftermath, but coming to the board I understood the complete shock at what had happened. I don’t really understand what happened. I feel comfortable saying that Zambrano had a performance review in mid-November and apparently passed it. I have no idea what changed. Maybe it was the Herdman situation that changed. There did seem to be an idea gaining root that Herdman forced his way into the job and that forced OZ out, but I felt it mattered that OZ was already down to his last strike, if not worse. I wasn’t trying to defend the CSA, just try to reiterate that there may be a (valid?) reason for this firing. But it is up to the CSA to justify this. It might not be pretty, but I’m not sure the optics can be any worse than they are now. Thanks to the people who had my back. Also, not to be a cranky old journo, but Marc Weber and I used to work at daily newspapers (his, much better than mine), Steve Sandor is editing a magazine today and finishing a book, Duane Rollins has a day job (AFAIK). The media landscape continues to change for the worse and we're worse off as a soccer community for it. I don't mind the criticism. I wish I had tried harder to dig and verify. That's on me. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 hours ago, kingvikingstad said: Ultimately, I'm gutted and probably will be for a while. Just when it seems to be going in the right direction the CSA have to meddle and turn it back 180 degrees. Will we never catch a break as CMNT supporters? We won that coin toss at the 2000 Gold Cup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Apparently I can now go get a coffee, come back and there are not four new pages of posts. Everyone feel better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 hours ago, Cheeta said: Whatever the wheres and whys that got us to this point one thing is for certain. It's all going to come out and it's going to be great fun when it does. Could get totally Trumpy before we know it. Both programs in major flux in one fell swoop. Ug... I'm not sure about that. People in the know, say they know, but say that can't say anything. Way too much of this in the incestuous world of Canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Obinna said: It was also said that Zambrano clashes with the CSA because he was not exactly politically correct. Interesting.... Listening to Molinaro on Blair, Molinaro actually said that Zambrano was "not the most political guy" rather than not politically correct. It was worth the fifteen minutes to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 hours ago, lazlo_80 said: From Schaad, as well as other threads from Molinaro, Sandor, I'm too lazy to link right now... out of his depth inability to set up the infrastructure of a true national program strange personnel choices lack of tactics lack of communication with other coaches no real plan for scouting and identifying talent no real impact on the recruitment of players he was credited with bringing in. You're welcome to believe them or not. Just wanted to point out that these "whispers" are being whispered by alot of respectable sources. Are these not the same whispers that we hear about virtually every national team coach we have had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, masster said: Are these not the same whispers that we hear about virtually every national team coach we have had? Yes! Maybe it is the same people doing the whispering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: Listening to Molinaro on Blair, Molinaro actually said that Zambrano was "not the most political guy" rather than not politically correct. It was worth the fifteen minutes to listen to. Do you have a link for this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: Do you have a link for this? Thanks http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/jeff-blair-show/zambranos-style-possibility-losing-herdman-pushed-canada-soccer-make-changes/, poached from Ansem on page 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said: How dare we discuss Zambrano in the Zambrano Out thread. exactimundo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, masster said: I'm not sure about that. People in the know, say they know, but say that can't say anything. Way too much of this in the incestuous world of Canadian soccer. And yes but also the terms of separation with Zambrano would require the CSA to bite their lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Ansem said: He said "he was talking to some of the players including 1 yesterday", so more than one (0:55) I wonder which players? The GTA guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 This was my last day in Vancouver, and it was supposed to be really productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 44 minutes ago, masster said: I'm not sure about that. People in the know, say they know, but say that can't say anything. Way too much of this in the incestuous world of Canadian soccer. I almost get a sense that some of the media/insider types are almost covering their asses. Like, they actually were surprised Zambrano was sacked but are saying things like "I saw hints" or "worst kept secret" to make it seems as if they were doing their due diligence. No manager is perfect, and the media types could be extrapolating a bit here. And WTF is with this whole "it's a secret" or "I'm not saying names" BS? I think CMNT coverage in this country is not up to par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said: I think CMNT coverage in this country is not up to par. Maybe, but is there any national team in any other sport apart from hockey that gets covered better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 It seems to me guys like Molinaro and Davidson in the mainstream media aren't telling all and don't really see this all as a disaster for so many reasons! I get that they probably really like Herdman from covering the WNT and have to not rock the boat too much, there doesn't seem to be much questioning of these moves, maybe myself and several others on here have it all wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I have decided to take my general pessimism and disappointment when it comes to the MNT, which ebbs and flows, and put this on the same sliding scale, instead of on another one. I am not treating it as apart, for me it is part of. This way I can convince myself I was lying to myself about Octavio, and that way my hard realism when it comes to Herdman will just be more honest. Why did I ever think we'd see a fundamental change and turn a corner? Also: this is precisely the reason I think our chances for a Canadian league are totally shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said: I almost get a sense that some of the media/insider types are almost covering their asses. Like, they actually were surprised Zambrano was sacked but are saying things like "I saw hints" or "worst kept secret" to make it seems as if they were doing their due diligence. No manager is perfect, and the media types could be extrapolating a bit here. And WTF is with this whole "it's a secret" or "I'm not saying names" BS? I think CMNT coverage in this country is not up to par. I couldn't take that "worst kept secret" stuff very seriously. Should have been "I actually had a mild suspicion about this guys, seriously!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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