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Zambrano out!


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1 hour ago, Keegan said:

Passion breeds passion.. I don't think many people are drawn in by Terry Dunfield. 

You know....you're right, but before Terry Dunfield...I hate Kristian "onlyplayedsocceratmiddleschool" Jack. We're in an era where in order to be an analyst you have to be a an existing coach or player or former. 

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2 hours ago, Keegan said:

Totera has influence?  He's like a Canadian Soccer podcast version of Don Cherry... I actually think it would be great if a network had him on a panel with some of our bland announcers, we would have all this sensible talk and then just Totera losing his shit on air after a poor performance and calling everyone out.  Passion breeds passion.. I don't think many people are drawn in by Terry Dunfield. 

This isn't a bad idea..... would be entertaining at least :D the CPL should get on this!

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43 minutes ago, gator said:

Don't be so sure of that, they have there man in place who won't rock the boat, he'll be given all the time he wants, this could be a real dark era for the MNT!

 How can it get much darker??  Wait, if I say that then something even worse will happen...oh no!! 

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This is a major oversight yet again by the incompetent inept pencil pushers at the CSA and for some of you when I say CSA it means the Big Wigs not some admins at stade olympique in Montréal.

To think Herdman can easily step into the men’s game and get the results he did in the women’s game is naive and ludicrous.

How will Herdman deal with not getting as many camps, friendlies (competitive ones at that) and tournaments like the ones in Cyprus that he got accustomed to?

How will he mettle in hostile highly charged crowds in max capacity stadiums in Central America??? The WNT didn’t have to qualify for the last WC as we hosted. How will he manage a team of players that are not as dominant vs their opponents skills and ability compared to the plethora of Canadian women’s talent against other nations where the women’s game is repressed or unsupported giving the CWNT a huge advantage.

In 2011 WWC Germany the women had to qualify via their 2010 GC tournament in Mexico. The women won the gold cup and did not concede a goal. They defeated host Mexico twice: once in group phase and the other time in the final via pk. The game was played in lovely Cancun in front of a crowd of only 16,000 and not 100,000 at high altitude Azteca. 

Seriously how will he handle the adversity of WCQ? He’s never had to deal with that. 

Is this the CSAs lame attempt in making some sort of FIFA trivia: coaches to manage both women and men in the WC? CMNT making WC only by being hosts in 2026?

edit: Carolina Morace was the coach of the women’s GC win. Not improving Herdmans case  

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The Return of Litterbox the Telepathic Alien Fly;  Chapter something-something

 

Cheeta;

“Ha!  Litterbox my man!  Think the last time I saw you you were chasing sheep in the moonlight in that pasture outside Dingwall.  Geezus, I was sure you weren’t ever going to make it back to this side of The Pond.”

Littebox;

“Yeah, well, it was quite the night.  And next day.  And day after that wasn’t it, eh?”

Cheeta;

“LOL, yeah.  Damn near killed the kids we did.”

Littlerbox;

“Damn near killed us!  Hey, what was with the kids anyway?  I’m mean… they’re young!  They should be seeing US off to bed.”

Cheeta;

“True, true.  I put it down to good parenting.   Doesn’t upset me that much that they can’t keep up with the old folks.  Well, our livers anyway.”

Littlebox;

“Speaking of keeping up….heard about Ozzy?”

Cheeta;

“Yes, sir.  And I know you’ve got the dirty you eaves-dropping little devil.”

Litterbox;

“I’m a fly.  I get around and no one ever notices.  Don’t suppose there would be a little something in it for me would there?”

Cheeta;

“Got most of a bottle of Dalmore 15?”

Litterbox;

“SET ‘EM UP, BOY!”

 

****

 

John Herdman;

“THIS IS BULLSHIT!  CANADA GRADE-A BULLSHIT!”

Steve Reed;

“John, calm down please.  John?  Please?”

Herdman;

“I’LL CALM DOWN.  OH, AYE.   I’LL CALM DOWN AS SOON AS YOU TELL ME WHO I HAVE TO xxxx TO GET SOME RECOGNITION AROUND HERE.  THEN I’LL CALM DOWN.  JUST SEE IF I DON’T.”

Reed;

“We went through this all last year, John.   Please.  I can’t say it enough.  Everyone here at the CSA appreciates all you’ve done not just for our ladies program but for soccer..”

Herdman;

“FOOTBALL!”

Reed;

FOOTBALL, football, in Canada, as a whole.  I believe we showed that when we made you one of the best paid women’s national team coaches in the world, and one of the best paid coaches in Canada, ever.  You have to admit that has to say something about the value that we attach to you and the successes your programs have produced over these past few years.”

Herdman;

“ BLAH-BLAH-BLAH.  SAYS YOU!  OF COURSE THAT’S WHAT YOU’D SAY.  YOU WOULDN’T GO AROUND BEHIND MY BACK SAYING, OH, I-DON’T’-KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE “THAT THICK FU’K HERDMAN SHOULD KEEP TO THE WOMENS GAME IF HE HAS ANY CLUE WHATS GOOD FOR HIM”.  NOTHING LIKE THAT, EH?”

Reed;

“Sigh.  How many times do you want me to apologize?  John, lots of things get said at office Christmas parties after a few drinks.”

Herdman;

“TO ME WIFE?!”

Reed;

“Ahem, yes well.  Admittedly, POOR choice of words to express a sentiment, however, the sentiment remains the same.  Everyone here at the CSA is aware, as you’ve made all too clear this past yeeear, that you’re looking to move onto new challenges, new opportunities on the men’s side of the game and well, we all just feel that you’ve shown you’re sooo in your element right now, a fish in water as it were, that right now such a move just doesn’t make sense for anyone.”

 

Herdman;

“YEAH?  YEAH? THAT SO IS IT? SO YOU’RE HAPPY WITH THE MEN’S SIDE OF THINGS ARE YOU?  THE WAY THINGS ARE PROGRESSING ON THAT SIDE OF THINGS ARE YOU?”

Reed;

“Over all I’d have to say so.   A generational shift is in full swing and for it all the mix of new faces is playing the most attractive and modern football we’ve ever seen.  Player recruitment has never been better and results look sure to follow all the good work Zambrano has laid down this past year.”

Herdman;

“DON’T FEEL LIKE YOU’RE BEING TALKED DOWN TO BY HIM THEN?”

Reed;

“Admittedly, if you weren’t aware that English isn’t Octavio’s first tongue that it can, at times, feel a little like he’s dumbing things down for us during board meetings.  Truthfully, it can feel A LOT like he’s dumbing things down for us during board meetings.”

Herdman;

“WELL THERE YOU ARE.  BE RID OF ‘IM!”

Reed;

“But that’s just an inaccurate perception created by something of a language barrier”

Herdman;

“IS IT?  IS IT REALLY?”

Reed;

“John, be fair.  He did manage to get the board members to finally understand the passive off-side rule.  Eh?  Eh?  That something you couldn’t manage these past 6 years now is it?”

Herdman;

“OH, SO SMART ISN’T HE?  SO TELL ME THIS THEN IF HE’S SO SMARTY, IT’S BEEN NEARLY A YEAR NOW, MULTIPLE MATCHES, MUTLIPLE CAMPS AND COUNTLESS TRAINING SESSIONS. HAVE YOU YET HEARD HIM SAY IT?  HAVE YOU HEARD HIM SAY EVEN ONCE?”

Reed;

“Say it?  Say what?”

Herdman;

“THE WORDS!  THOSE TWO MAGIC WORDS THAT ARE THE VERY FOUNDATION FOR SUCCESS IN ALL THINGS CANADIAN FOOTBALL.”

Reed;

“Craig Forrest?”

Herdman;

“NO!”

Reed;

“Unmarked bills?”

Herdman;

“NO!”

Reed;

“AH HA!  *snap*  Secret-Ballot!”

Herdman;

“NO!  NO! NO!  THOSE TWO MAGIC WORDS, THE ONLY TWO WORDS EVERY SUCCESSFUL COACH WILL EVER NEED TO KNOW……    SEND IT!

Reed;

“Send it?”

Herdman;

“NOT “send it”.   SEND IT!”

Reed;

“SEND IT?  SEND IT!   Of course!  How stupid of me.  The answer to the one question which is worth 85% of the grading on the Soccer Canada A Coaching License.  Send it!

“And now that I think about it…FU’K ME!  You’re right!  He’s never said it once, not once in this past year.   Interlocking triangles.  Supportive options.  Decoy movement.  Sell the fowl.  Invest in RRSPs early in life!  He been constantly babbling all that SHIT that nobody understands but not once, not once….SEND IT!”

Herdman;

“EXACTLY!  REED, I’M YOUR MAN.”

Reed;

“Lucy, get Zambrano on the ‘phone. “

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2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

No he got everything, he's in control of it all -  Youth to senior. 

Reed and the other clowns gave  Herdman the keys to the red Ferrari knowning he doesn't have a license to drive and  experience haha

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Equating the CMNT (or the CSA, for that matter) to a Ferrari??  I was thinking this vehicle would be a more apt comparison:

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1 minute ago, The Ref said:

Was Zambrano going to hold a press conference to explain what happened?  Has this taken place?  I am so curious about what is behind all this fiasco.

same. i want to see that conference (which is kind of weird, like where is is hosting a press conference?) but also want to see the csa reply.

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On 2018-01-08 at 11:16 PM, Ansem said:

I'll say the same thing I said earlier..We can debate whether Herdman is the right guy or not, but this putting Zambrano on a pedestal is exaggerated. We lost the Jamaica game do to poor planning and questionable choices for players. We should have won that game

If you mean deciding to go w Cyle Larin coming off a DUI and having several poor performances w the national team leading up I would concur but what makes you think with 100% certainty knowing the CSA and it’s infinite wisdom didn’t force OZ’s hand to play Canada’s Floridian superstar? All in all Cyle seems to have a horseshoe in his rear for the number of times he gets capped for doing nothing and coasting. 

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15 hours ago, Obinna said:

All speculation anyhow. My default is going to be to assume Zambrano rumors are not true until I have something concrete and assume the CSA feel Herdman is a better fit for footballing reasons. 

Agree. If the CSA (the Big Wigs) are going to accuse someone of some type of corruption/stealing/fraud and terminate him for it you’d think they’d have the integrity of actually saying what exactly he did wrong. Weird this was done while OZ only played a handful of games in such a short stint - what could he have possibly done, run up the tab on his mini bar? Did he get caught taking too many pencils? ;) Not to mention the skullduggery the Englishman played to get his position. 

 

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6 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

So Herdman made it up and then told Sid who then went public with it? But then Sid publicly slammed the move to hire Herdman? What’s the point of that?

 

Sid is one of those "hot takes" type of individuals which have dominated sports media. Its hard to take anything serious from those kind.

Easier to believe in conspiracy and paranoia than rather look at the facts.

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4 hours ago, Moldy9 said:

If you mean deciding to go w Cyle Larin coming off a DUI and having several poor performances w the national team leading up I would concur but what makes you think with 100% certainty knowing the CSA and it’s infinite wisdom didn’t force OZ’s hand to play Canada’s Floridian superstar? All in all Cyle seems to have a horseshoe in his rear for the number of times he gets capped for doing nothing and coasting. 

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Hahaha. So OZ gets fired because he’s a renegade genius who came in and pushed for too much change trying to revamp how the program works but he was forced by the CSA to make certain lineup changes?! And he acquiesced?

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uhhh....so after sleeping on it...it's even more crazy thinking about it than it was initially finding out yesterday. JOHN HERDMAN IS THE MNT COACH....WTF

Anyway I have my suspicions that this all comes down to Canada's obsession with bureaucracy and administration. Jesus way too many administrative types with business degrees are running things in this country. My guess is John Herdman plays along with that bureaucracy better than Zambrano and this has little to do about actual soccer. Theses excuses about Zambrano not budgeting, BUDGETING? why the hell is the coach concerned about budgeting? we need an MBA to coach soccer now? In Canada it would not surprise me.

 

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9 hours ago, Vancouver Fan said:

This move is tough to understand. If they really thought that Herdman was their guy could he not have been brought in after the Floro departure? Surely they must have known there was a possibility that Herdman would get job offers elsewhere months ago. Zambrano was getting good results and bringing in promising young talent. This makes no sense even by CSA standards. 

The only international women's team he would really leave for (save for maybe the US) would be England, and at the time Floro was fired, no, the CSA would not have known the shit that was about to go down with Mark Sampson and that he would be fired and the post would become vacant...Sampson was only fired in September 2017. 

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Hahaha. So OZ gets fired because he’s a renegade genius who came in and pushed for too much change trying to revamp how the program works but he was forced by the CSA to make certain lineup changes?! And he acquiesced?

According to them he was some rogue that was rocking the boat that’s what they want us to think. I’m just saying how much hoopla has Cyle gotten the last few years and for doing what on the international stage aside from MLS. As Arny would say he was like the CSAs Choir Boy. 

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Interesting article from the Toronto Sun

‘BOTCHED HIRING’: Canada sacks Octavio Zambrano after tumultuous tenure, leaving John Herdman to pick up the pieces

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/botched-hiring-canada-sacks-octavio-zambrano-after-tumultuous-tenure-leaving-john-herdman-to-pick-up-the-pieces

  • He was late to or absent from meetings
  • struggled to implement a coherent top-to-bottom development plan that encompassed Canada’s youth teams, according to another source in the position to know.
  • CSA’s top brass weren’t impressed with Canada’s recent Gold Cup run, with one high-ranking decision-maker giving Les Rouges’ performance a “C-plus” grade at last summer’s tournament.
  • But Zambrano wasn’t replaced this week for his performance with Canada’s embattled men’s national team. He was supplanted by John Herdman, Canada’s well-respected women’s coach, because of his inability to oversee Canada’s entire men’s program, sources confirmed.

 

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6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Interesting article from the Toronto Sun

‘BOTCHED HIRING’: Canada sacks Octavio Zambrano after tumultuous tenure, leaving John Herdman to pick up the pieces

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/botched-hiring-canada-sacks-octavio-zambrano-after-tumultuous-tenure-leaving-john-herdman-to-pick-up-the-pieces

  • He was late to or absent from meetings
  • struggled to implement a coherent top-to-bottom development plan that encompassed Canada’s youth teams, according to another source in the position to know.
  • CSA’s top brass weren’t impressed with Canada’s recent Gold Cup run, with one high-ranking decision-maker giving Les Rouges’ performance a “C-plus” grade at last summer’s tournament.
  • But Zambrano wasn’t replaced this week for his performance with Canada’s embattled men’s national team. He was supplanted by John Herdman, Canada’s well-respected women’s coach, because of his inability to oversee Canada’s entire men’s program, sources confirmed.

I mean, this is a line of criticism that makes sense.  It's not like Zambrano had ever coached internationally before or overseen a national program.  I can understand how CSA reps would feel in safer hands with Herdman, who had overseen a national program, whether that experience is directly transferrable to the men's program or not.  It probably speaks to my lack of knowledge re: the position, but I don't see why our national mens coach has to be responsible for the development programme from the bottom right to the top.  It's possible that Zambrano is a good team coach but not suited to such an expansive role.

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8 minutes ago, Marc said:

It probably speaks to my lack of knowledge re: the position, but I don't see why our national mens coach has to be responsible for the development programme from the bottom right to the top.

It's the old all-consuming manager versus a head coach and a director of soccer problem.

In the case of a national team with limited resources, I definitely understand not paying a guy $350,000 in a year purely to set six starting lineups. You need a vision for what sort of program you want and the ability to implement it somewhere in the organization. It's not going to be the politicians or the beancounters, and when they tried it didn't work. It's a professional's job which requires someone with power and accountability.

The logical person to look at is the best-paid guy with the highest profile, and on the women's side Herdman did that successfully. Maybe not the best available choice, but there's logic.

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37 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Interesting article from the Toronto Sun

‘BOTCHED HIRING’: Canada sacks Octavio Zambrano after tumultuous tenure, leaving John Herdman to pick up the pieces

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/botched-hiring-canada-sacks-octavio-zambrano-after-tumultuous-tenure-leaving-john-herdman-to-pick-up-the-pieces

  • He was late to or absent from meetings
  • struggled to implement a coherent top-to-bottom development plan that encompassed Canada’s youth teams, according to another source in the position to know.
  • CSA’s top brass weren’t impressed with Canada’s recent Gold Cup run, with one high-ranking decision-maker giving Les Rouges’ performance a “C-plus” grade at last summer’s tournament.
  • But Zambrano wasn’t replaced this week for his performance with Canada’s embattled men’s national team. He was supplanted by John Herdman, Canada’s well-respected women’s coach, because of his inability to oversee Canada’s entire men’s program, sources confirmed.

 

So Zambrano should have been just the MNT manager and CSA should have hired a technical director for men's program.

Still leads to CSA screwed up in talent identifying.

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1 minute ago, Yohan said:

So Zambrano should have been just the MNT manager and CSA should have hired a technical director for men's program.

Still leads to CSA screwed up in talent identifying.

Total speculation, but is it possible that when they were hiring that the CSA wanted Herdman in charge of the program but were nervous about him as the direct MNT manager - but he wouldn't accept any men's role unless it came with the role of MNT manager?

That's the only way I see leverage for any "give me the MNT or I'm gone" play from Herdman.

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3 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

 

Anyway I have my suspicions that this all comes down to Canada's obsession with bureaucracy and administration. Jesus way too many administrative types with business degrees are running things in this country. 

 

Just had to point out the oxymoron in your sentence.  The stereotype is that the bureaucracy/administration does not have enough business types.  People with no clue about government always say "If only we had more business degrees in power then we would have less red tape and things would get done" - just like electing POTUS, because that is really working out for the US.  

Quite frankly, Canada does not have an obsession with bureaucracy and administration compared to many states.  Also, this CSA move is the opposite of bureaucratic.  Bureaucratic was when the CSA knew Floro was done, had no plan in place, set out a list of criteria of who they wanted, accepted job applications, and interviewed candidates and took 8 months to find a new coach.  With this change, CSA did their best Trump-Apprentice impression, said "You're Fired", and hired the guy they already knew - regardless of merit.  

 

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11 hours ago, RJB said:

It's interesting to note that Herdman has none of the experience that Voyageurs have always called for in a CMNT coach.  None.  Honestly, how many games have they played away in CONCACAF?

I still haven't caught up so apologies if anyone has responded to this already. The only games in the Americas south of USA that the WNT played under Herdman were the 2011 Pan Am games in Mexico (won the gold medal), a couple of minor tournaments in Brazil and of course the Olympics in Brazil (bronze medal). No games in Central America or the Caribbean. Here are the full results.

2011 Pan Am in Mexico
W 3-1 vs Costa Rica
W 1-0 vs Argentina
D 0-0 vs Brazil
W 2-1 vs Colombia
W 1-1, 4-3 on penalties vs Brazil

2013 tournament in Brasilia, Brazil (I don't know what the actual tournament is called, or what the format was, I just have the match results for Canada)
W 2-0 vs Scotland
L 0-1 vs Chile
D 0-0 vs Brazil
W 1-0 vs Scotland

2015 tournament in Natal, Brazil (I don't know what the actual tournament is called, or what the format was, I just have the match results for Canada)
W 3-0 vs Mexico
W 4-0 vs Trinidad and Tobago
L 1-2 vs Brazil
L 1-3 vs Brazil

2016 Olympics in Brazil
W 2-0 vs Australia
W 3-1 vs Zimbabwe
W 2-1 vs Germany
W 1-0 vs France
L 2-0 vs Germany
W 2-1 vs Brazil

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41 minutes ago, Marc said:

I mean, this is a line of criticism that makes sense.  It's not like Zambrano had ever coached internationally before or overseen a national program.  I can understand how CSA reps would feel in safer hands with Herdman, who had overseen a national program, whether that experience is directly transferrable to the men's program or not.  It probably speaks to my lack of knowledge re: the position, but I don't see why our national mens coach has to be responsible for the development programme from the bottom right to the top.  It's possible that Zambrano is a good team coach but not suited to such an expansive role.

That is exactly it. They are blending two positions into one for financial reasons, even though each requires a unique skill set. 

John has the building side but like all of you I have serious doubts on the actually coaching side.

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