Zambrano out!

[king1010]

21 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I like Oz a lot, although he strikes me to be an Ecudorian Herdman: speaks well, lots of charisma, may have technical deficiencies as he never played the game at a high level.

The one thing I always felt during the Herdman WNT era is that they were managed far more professionally than the men: more matches, more media, more fans, etc. If Herdman had anything to do with this then he will help. 

 

I think that comes down to the WNT being the priority for women since club football is not as big? Multi week training camps multiple times a year with lots of games.

Also more media, more matches was due to success of the team in an environment not as competitive as the men. Hopefully i'm proven wrong on Herman though because obviously we all want to see the success of the canMNT and canWNT.

 

[Futballer]

1 minute ago, gator said:

Judging by what has come down and the way it happened I would say the CSA is broken and needs to be fixed, I hate to use the term but "drain the swamp"!

You gotta give some credit to this new found decision making by the CSA, they were always a let play it safe kinda organization, and give  it time;  Now they want to see immediate impact 111

[king1010]

8 minutes ago, Futballer said:

You gotta give some credit to this new found decision making by the CSA, they were always a let play it safe kinda organization, and give  it time;  Now they want to see immediate impact 111

I see the Herdman hiring as lets play it safe with someone who will respect the old guard. Herdman is a known quantity to CSA. Zambrano wanted change and the CSA was afraid of it.

Also I don't buy the immediate impact thing. Zambrano got us to the QF's of the gold cup for the first time. We don't have any meaningful games requiring immediate impact. The talk has been hiring herdman is a longterm play to develop youth in anticipation for 2026. 

[gator]

6 minutes ago, Futballer said:

You gotta give some credit to this new found decision making by the CSA, they were always a let play it safe kinda organization, and give  it time;  Now they want to see immediate impact 111

Sorry, I can't give any credit to them for these decisions no matter what the time frame, there is so much wrong with this as has been thoroughly discussed!

[Marc]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Willing to believe there could have been genuine issues with Zambrano but hiring Herdman is consistent with the CSA old boys network feeling threatened and getting somebody in they were comfortable with that wouldn't rock the boat. The type of soccer the CWNT has tended to play over the years is not the way to win in Tegicugalpa to reach the hex when the bags of urine start flying. Think the core CMNT fan base has to find a way to let the CSA know that this is not acceptable given there is still time for another hire before the next World Cup cycle.

You're right, as WNT coach Herdman didn't coach the type of soccer that we needed to win to qualify.  But did Zambrano?  Meh.  Floro certainly didn't.  Hart did and then didn't.  Holger didn't.  Mitchell didn't.  Yallop didn't.  Lenarduzzi didn't.  And if you look beyond style to CVs, none of our coaches had the resume that suggested they could reliably coach the type of soccer we needed.  And the results showed this in the end.

Hiring Herdman?  It's possible it's old boys club politics.  It's possible this is press-the-panic-button-and-grab-the-closest-guy .  But it's also possible that there is a serious problem and, if this is the case, this is best we have.  And we could have done a lot worse.  He's a known quantity with success at a different level.  I can see why they went for him if the circumstances are tight.

Yes, coaching the MNT isn't the same as coaching the WNT.  But coaching the MNT isn't the same as coaching the u20s.  Or Tatabanya.  Or Wydad Casablanca.  Or Halifax King of Donair.

[Ruud]

I think a legitimate question has to be :  If Herdman has top-notch organizational skills, why wouldn't he first get a crack at the U17s or U20s where youth recruitment, support from regional TDs etc. is essential.  Arguably, leading up to 2026, these are the age groups that matter anyways....

We have a free pass through 2026 - does Herdman think he's going to last long enough to be the coach for Canada for the big expanded WC by then?

Will anyone care about World cups by then anyways?  

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, king1010 said:

I see the Herdman hiring as lets play it safe with someone who will respect the old guard. Herdman is a known quantity to CSA. Zambrano wanted change and the CSA was afraid of it.

Devil's advocate here.

One delivered results which gives some confidence that some progress will indeed happen.

The other promised results and there's a possibility that we're back to square 1 in 2022.

That might have been a big factor in their decision

[Futballer]

8 minutes ago, king1010 said:

I see the Herdman hiring as lets play it safe with someone who will respect the old guard. Herdman is a known quantity to CSA. Zambrano wanted change and the CSA was afraid of it.

As far i as i know that club folded . the old boys has no say anymore,  its has been a new thing  for the past few years now. 

[WheatsheafSK]

Just pipping in now.  After reading the first five pages of this thread, I had to jump to post my disgust with many of the sexist post.  Apologies if this has already been called out and dealt with.  I was just reading too much "a women's coach cannot take over a men's program".  That generalization is bs. There are reasons to not like the appointment, but we should be calling out what those reasons are intead of resorting to generalizations. 

I am not happy with the way the Herdman appointment. But that is because I was not impressed with the quality of play of the women's team.  They got results, but their play was often disjointed and appeared to rely more on emotion than skill.  To kill of games, they resorted to often to cornering the ball instead of trying to control play.  I do not recall seeing much in trying to play the ball up from the back, and, outside of big games, the tempo seemed quite slow. Due to the results, I was willing to turn a blind eye.  However, this past summer I watched the women's Euro Cup final between Netherlands and Denmark and I was amazed by the level of play. I am not sure Canada would have stood a chance against how those two teams played.  All to say, these flaws with the way CWMT played suggests that Herdman may not be suited for a team that will require a different style of play.

The other thing that bothers me about this appointment is that CSA seemed to jump at the threat of Herdman leaving, thereby throwing out the criteria they set out for the eight month search that lead to OZ's hiring.  Herdman said he told the CSA he wanted to jump to the men's game a year ago - If CSA wanted him they could have hired him instead of OZ. Instead they said they wanted a coach with CONCACAF experience.

Finally, I would like to praise the CSA for having the guts to promote the coach from women's program to the men's program.  It shows that the CSA has belief in the women's program, and I hope that the two programs eventually receive equal resources.  I may not be convinced by Herdman, but I do appreciate that the CSA does respect the work that he has done for the CWMT program. 

[BCM]

3 hours ago, matthew said:

I can probably only muddy the air, but as far as I know this has almost nothing to do with Herdman. I would like to tell you some of the things I heard about behind the scenes issues, but unless someone was willing to talk on the record, I'm not going to repeat rumours I can't verify. At this point it is up to the CSA to justify this. Because from the outside it is utterly mystifying.

But as Sandor and Schaad have said, this wasn't out of the blue. There have been serious concerns for months apparently. Are those concerns justified? I have no idea. I would love to ask a lot of people some questions about this, but I doubt anyone will get the chance. This isn't a retroactive smear campaign to justify hiring Herdman, this has been building. No matter the truth in what was done, wasn't done, promised and or not promised, this is squarely on the CSA in my book. If you have buyer's remorse that quickly, you didn't do your due diligence in the first place. There was no real rush to hire the next manager. If they hired the wrong man that's on them. If they don't communicate what their issues are (and at this point they can't even say they fired him) then that is another failing on their part.

I liked Octavio. He was good when I interviewed him and dealt with him. I was cautiously optimistic about the results. I was hoping he had survived the storm. I'm curious to see how he does in his next job and in his next step.

And above all I hope the CSA can and does justify their decision.

cheers, matthew

 

 

Sorry mate, the title is "reporter" so the job is to "report". Sometimes it's a rumour, and it's okay to say so. But to hide, then crawl out and say "everyone knew of the whispers", "he's been under review three times" and "wasn't out of the blue" is total BS - no one heard and it is out of the blue if reporters don't do their job.

When I lived in Canada, I heard of unsubstantiated rumours all the time of NHL/MLB coaches being on the hot seat, of potential trades, of trade requests, etc. In politics, we all hear the same thing on a daily basis. For every so-called and self-proclaimed soccer reporter to roll out the same company line and hide behind some "ethical code" is either laughable or disgusting, I'm not sure which at this point. But it is pathetic.

[Ansem]

 

[Futballer]

Herdman  was  able to  fill all the voids the women's national team had when replacing the retired  players.

The mens program was not able to replace stalteri, Razinski, etc  much less when Atiba decide to call it a day with the MNT Program. 

WE do have  players with the capability to replace all these out going players,  this guy prove that he knows how to  implement new players in the national team play system.  Oz  may have been a bit too slow in doing so.

[BCM]

27 minutes ago, Ruud said:

I think a legitimate question has to be :  If Herdman has top-notch organizational skills, why wouldn't he first get a crack at the U17s or U20s where youth recruitment, support from regional TDs etc. is essential.  Arguably, leading up to 2026, these are the age groups that matter anyways....

We have a free pass through 2026 - does Herdman think he's going to last long enough to be the coach for Canada for the big expanded WC by then?

Will anyone care about World cups by then anyways?  

I will give every V $1000 is Herdman is still the MNT coach in 2026.

[Ruud]

2 minutes ago, Futballer said:

Herdman  was  able to  fill all the voids the women's national team had when replacing the retired  players.

The mens program was not able to replace stalteri, Razinski, etc  much less when Atiba decide to call it a day with the MNT Program. 

WE do have  players with the capability to replace all these out going players,  this guy prove that he knows how to  implement new players in the national team play system.  Oz  may have been a bit too slow in doing so.

Where is your evidence on this?  OZ brought Bernier back to play last summer and successfully integrated some youth into the fold, including Davies.  On the field, we have no evidence of lack of progress.... this seems to be a decision made on off field matters

[Marc]

7 minutes ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Sorry mate, the title is "reporter" so the job is to "report". Sometimes it's a rumour, and it's okay to say so. But to hide, then crawl out and say "everyone knew of the whispers", "he's been under review three times" and "wasn't out of the blue" is total BS - no one heard and it is out of the blue if reporters don't do their job.

When I lived in Canada, I heard of unsubstantiated rumours all the time of NHL/MLB coaches being on the hot seat, of potential trades, of trade requests, etc. In politics, we all hear the same thing on a daily basis. For every so-called and self-proclaimed soccer reporter to roll out the same company line and hide behind some "ethical code" is either laughable or disgusting, I'm not sure which at this point. But it is pathetic.

You really do not understand the job of reporter, do you?  Matthew has a job to do.  You, as a anonymous poster on a bulletin board, doesn't.  People like him make this board better and more informed.  Posts like yours show ignorance and pollute it.

[gator]

4 minutes ago, Futballer said:

Herdman  was  able to  fill all the voids the women's national team had when replacing the retired  players.

The mens program was not able to replace stalteri, Razinski, etc  much less when Atiba decide to call it a day with the MNT Program. 

WE do have  players with the capability to replace all these out going players,  this guy prove that he knows how to  implement new players in the national team play system.  Oz  may have been a bit too slow in doing so.

These players do not just crawl out from under a rock being un-scouted or unnoticed, there is a good file on all players who can potentially represent our MNT, Oz was doing a good job at giving the youth a chance, Davies and Petrasso come to mind! 

[soccerlife]

53 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Sorry but reporters need to do their jobs and not say things like:  I can't really say what happened, or why there were so many grumblings....

Zambrano is judged on one thing - results on the pitch - not how neat or organized his desk was...

If players were going to revolt, that's another thing...but again, these reporters have told us nothing.

People say they want to know what went down, Sandor, Schaad, Molinaro say a few things, nobody believes them. Maybe the CSA wanted to be respectful and not air the grievances. I trust the CSA on the Oz decision. Herdsman is different, hope he pulls through.

[BCM]

12 minutes ago, Marc said:

You really do not understand the job of reporter, do you?  Matthew has a job to do.  You, as a anonymous poster on a bulletin board, doesn't.  People like him make this board better and more informed.  Posts like yours show ignorance and pollute it.

I understand the root of the word reporter, which is "report".

Don't you see a problem when every normal V is shocked (or at least taken by surprise) by this news, and every journalist/reporter without fail claims they knew it was coming, and have done for months? Every single one has claimed to be in the know about issues, coming disasters and the firing of the MNT coach, but said nothing... I should think all of these, and especially the latter, would be newsworthy (or at least one would want the scoop, @Duane Rollins1555362254 maybe)...

So if true that they all knew (and I doubt it is for most website solo journos), is hiding information really making the board better informed?

Edit: @gator is correct, I am speaking of the group as a whole and not singling out @matthew. If every journalist knows something, it's not "off the record"...

[gator]

10 minutes ago, Marc said:

You really do not understand the job of reporter, do you?  Matthew has a job to do.  You, as a anonymous poster on a bulletin board, doesn't.  People like him make this board better and more informed.  Posts like yours show ignorance and pollute it.

I don't think BCM's comments were specifically aimed at our man Mathew but I'll let him answer that, agree there is a fine line sometimes as to what can be or should be reported! Not too long ago I was critisised for reporting "off the record" comments at a Barton Street Battalion meeting with members of the CSA and CPL, my response then was if the speakers did not want this reported they should say nothing because going "off the record" with a room full of people most of whom you don't know does not guarantee it will not be reported! 

[Marc]

14 minutes ago, BCM1555362349 said:

I understand the root of the word reporter, which is "report".

Don't you see a problem when every normal V is shocked (or at least taken by surprise) by this news, and every journalist/reporter without fail claims they knew it was coming, and have done for months? Every single one has claimed to be in the know about issues, coming disasters and the firing of the MNT coach, but said nothing... I should think all of these, and especially the latter, would be newsworthy (or at least one would want the scoop, @Duane Rollins1555362254 maybe)...

So if true that they all knew (and I doubt it is for most website solo journos), is hiding information really making the board better informed?

Edit: @gator is correct, I am speaking of the group as a whole and not singling out @matthew.

No, I see zero problem with professionals trying to give us a bit of context to the situation whilst trying to balance the ethics, norms and relationships within their profession - rather than providing us with silence.  Seeing your posts just now, why would a professional reporter risk his or her profession, to help inform someone like you that posts baloney like this?  This is an internet forum - no journalist owes us anything more than they feel comfortable giving - because at the end of the day it is their living on the line and we have no skin in the game.  If the fact that these reporters don't trust random guys like you (and I) with info that would put us in the in-the-know camp hurts your feelings, well, have a cookie.  Matthew is one of the longest-serving contributors to this website.  Your post was idiotic and immature.

[BCM]

4 minutes ago, Marc said:

No, I see zero problem with professionals trying to give us a bit of insight within the confines of their profession, rather than providing us with nothing.  Seeing your posts just now, why would a professional reporter risk his or her profession, to help inform someone like you that posts baloney like this?

One example, and sorry for picking on one person but ... If you don't see anything wrong with a "professional" (let's use the term loosely) like Sandor to know of the discontent/rumours for months (his words), to interview the MNT coach during this time period and not ask the coach directly about them, to keep the "secret" for months and on the day of the firing to run a headline "worst kept secret" and write that OZ's "job was reviewed several times" [which would actually seem like, and is certainly stated as, a fact not a rumour] than really we are too far on opposite ends of the spectrum to communicate. 

[Lord Bob]

It's from yesterday but I didn't see it posted; sure looks like Mike Martignago is implying he's heard Zambrano was corrupt? (Tweet thread; click to read.)

 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said:

It's from yesterday but I didn't see it posted; sure looks like Mike Martignago is implying he's heard Zambrano was corrupt? (Tweet thread; click to read.)

 

If the CSA had evidence of his curruption why not come out and say it?

[David C.]

Holy smokes - I can't keep up with this thread!  :-)

[Lord Bob]

Just now, Obinna said:

If the CSA had evidence of his curruption why not come out and say it?

If they come out and say it, they open themselves up to a legal battle and then they have to go to the expense and trouble of trying to prove it in court. It might have been easier and cheaper to write Zambrano a cheque and say "now everybody shuts up." Thinking aloud here. It's all fucking rumours.