BreadBoy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, Ansem said: Doesn't this making Sinclair's and some of the other players tweets all the more interesting if they did in fact know about it before the news broke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Offhand, my two thoughts are: 1) I am saddened that we are losing someone who had an understanding of what we are dealing with, playing in Latin America. Hopefully, Herdman will make it a priority to include assistants/consultants to help us on that front. 2) I hope that Findlay is kept on board - both to add some continuity and for the positive contributions that he seems to have made to the program so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Obinna said: If the CSA had evidence of his curruption why not come out and say it? Agree although if there are accusations of financial improprieties there could be a messy lawsuit coming, there may be just cause to terminate OZ, I don't know, if there was I think most of us would accept that, ruffling the feathers of the TD's to me isn't just cause! It still doesn't make the Herdman hiring right but the CSA does owe us some clarity IMHO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, gator said: Agree although if there are accusations of financial improprieties there could be a messy lawsuit coming, there may be just cause to terminate OZ, I don't know, if there was I think most of us would accept that, ruffling the feathers of the TD's to me isn't just cause! It still doesn't make the Herdman hiring right but the CSA does owe us some clarity IMHO! Yup Zambrano courrption, if true, still doesn't make Herdman a good move. Considering he wanted this post, I am inclined to think any courrption claim is BS until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: If they come out and say it, they open themselves up to a legal battle and then they have to go to the expense and trouble of trying to prove it in court. It might have been easier and cheaper to write Zambrano a cheque and say "now everybody shuts up." Thinking aloud here. It's all fucking rumours. Could be the case but hiring John Herdmen immediately casts doubt. Looks like they just wanted an excuse to remove Zambrano to clear the way for Herdman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Corrupt? Unlikely. Probably just in over his head with one of two options - fail, or flame out on his own terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Obinna said: Could be the case but hiring John Herdmen immediately casts doubt. Looks like they just wanted an excuse to remove Zambrano to clear the way for Herdman. I mean the rumours about Zambrano aren't new, they're just newly-reported. The Herdman situation might have been the final push to fire Zambrano, or the reason that they fired him now instead of later, and they might be totally invalid and old-boys-network sour graping, but it seems unlikely that this is a long con to make Herdman's sudden accession look better to the 20 people who care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, king1010 said: You’re comparing nfl coaches and cfl coaches to mens national team soccer and womens national team soccer. The dynamics are so different. Im done here. Theres no saving you. Well NFL and CFL have different sets of rules, different number of players on the field, a different ball, different field dimensions, etc. Men's and Women's soccer play by the exact same rules, with the same ball, on the same field. I don't imagine Herdman is going to be on the sideline thinking "how am I supposed to coach these guys when they are running so much faster than women!" I may very well be ignorant towards the differences in the men's and women's games. Some points were brought up about playing in Central America, dealing with teams not wanting to release players etc., but I haven't heard anyone explain the differences on the field. I am genuinely interested in hearing what the tactical differences between the games are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kent said: Well NFL and CFL have different sets of rules, different number of players on the field, a different ball, different field dimensions, etc. Men's and Women's soccer play by the exact same rules, with the same ball, on the same field. I don't imagine Herdman is going to be on the sideline thinking "how am I supposed to coach these guys when they are running so much faster than women!" I may very well be ignorant towards the differences in the men's and women's games. Some points were brought up about playing in Central America, dealing with teams not wanting to release players etc., but I haven't heard anyone explain the differences on the field. I am genuinely interested in hearing what the tactical differences between the games are. Tactically I suspect there is very little difference. It is all the other stuff I worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialK Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 The knives were out for Oz and Herdman put a gun to the head of the CSA. Coaches get fired for good and stupid reasons in sport simple as that. BUT the way Herdman threatening his way to the top is just sickening with no men's international football experience not even as an assistant coach. Its a joke when you have so many great options out there for a new Manager and they didn't even get looked at. Its also a joke when you hear the likes of Jeff Blair ( who I like ) say oh Herdman can come in and change things and cut through the CSA old ways bla bla bla. NEWS flash ! This is the old ways ! John Herdman is a CSA guy! Oz was a outsider wanting to bring massive changes for the men's program, now the things he wanted to do were good ? I don't know but at least they were different for the past! Mitchell , Hart , Miller , Fonseca were CSA yes men! At least with Floro he did it his way, ya it failed but I give him and Victor credit for allowing to do his way and allowing Floro to sink or swim. Reed should resign and new outside blood should come in. If any one on the CSA board is reading this, which you're probably not but hopeful, get a back bone ! Do the right thing here! Force Reed out, start a real job search for a manager and right the ship here. Send Herdman to the youth teams even the U23 team is fine and see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I believe it was Brad Smith who reckoned that there are three types of coaches - a teacher, a motivator and a strategist. There are of course coaches who can do all or two of the three. Herdman has always struck me as being more of a motivator. He never played at a high level so its unlikely he'll be a teacher and I've seen scant evidence of him being any kind of strategist from what I've seen in the women's game over the years. Trouble is, I am skeptical that he will be successful as a "motivator" type coach with the men. The first time something goes wrong there are bound to be players questioning & disbelieving in him faster than they would from just about any other coach they could have hired because of the lack of pedigree he has with the men's game. He's going to have to be instantly successful in the position to earn himself some credibility in the eyes of the players because its tough to believe that most of them aren't having the same reaction most of us are having. I am of course willing to be proven wrong. I don't know who Herdman plans to bring in as an assistant coach, but I hope its the likes of Paul Stalteri and/or Julian De Guzman who will bring some Concacaf experience and credibility (in the eyes of the men's national team players). Frankly, I'd have preferred it if either of them were given the coaching job if Zambrano really had to go for all these "whispers behind the scenes" reasons that we have next to no knowledge about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: I mean the rumours about Zambrano aren't new, they're just newly-reported. The Herdman situation might have been the final push to fire Zambrano, or the reason that they fired him now instead of later, and they might be totally invalid and old-boys-network sour graping, but it seems unlikely that this is a long con to make Herdman's sudden accession look better to the 20 people who care. All speculation anyhow. My default is going to be to assume Zambrano rumors are not true until I have something concrete and assume the CSA feel Herdman is a better fit for footballing reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said: I believe it was Brad Smith who reckoned that there are three types of coaches - a teacher, a motivator and a strategist. There are of course coaches who can do all or two of the three. Herdman has always struck me as being more of a motivator. He never played at a high level so its unlikely he'll be a teacher and I've seen scant evidence of him being any kind of strategist from what I've seen in the women's game over the years. Trouble is, I am skeptical that he will be successful as a "motivator" type coach with the men. The first time something goes wrong there are bound to be players questioning & disbelieving in him faster than they would from just about any other coach they could have hired because of the lack of pedigree he has with the men's game. I agree with the general point about motivation, I think you're right. But about losing the room quickly, let's get real for a moment - the players we have these days are going to question and disbelieve just about anyone the minute they start failing because the calibre of coaches and/or ex-players we can attract is pretty poor to start with. It's not like this is just a Herdman problem. Do we think that Leutwiler or Edwards or Twardek or Petrasso gives a crap about having some also-ran former Canadian Nat that they've maybe heard of in passing beside their coach? Just like any other low-quality hire mens coach, Herdman will have those open to him and those that he will lose at the first sign of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Obinna said: All speculation anyhow. My default is going to be to assume Zambrano rumors are not true until I have something concrete and assume the CSA feel Herdman is a better fit for footballing reasons. Oh fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marc said: I agree with the general point about motivation, I think you're right. But about losing the room quickly, let's get real for a moment - the players we have these days are going to question and disbelieve just about anyone the minute they start failing because the calibre of coaches and/or ex-players we can attract is pretty poor to start with. It's not like this is just a Herdman problem. Do we think that Leutwiler or Edwards or Twardek or Petrasso gives a crap about having some also-ran former Canadian Nat that they've maybe heard of in passing beside their coach? Just like any other low-quality hire mens coach, Herdman will have those open to him and those that he will lose at the first sign of trouble. Yup except now even moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Marc said: I agree with the general point about motivation, I think you're right. But about losing the room quickly, let's get real for a moment - the players we have these days are going to question and disbelieve just about anyone the minute they start failing because the calibre of coaches and/or ex-players we can attract is pretty poor to start with. It's not like this is just a Herdman problem. Not just Herdman, it could be just anyone else that doesn't seem qualified for the job from past coaching or playing experience. But you don't think that they are more likely to have given the likes of Floro or Zambrano the benefit of the doubt if and when things had started to go bad? We'll never know about the latter I suppose because he didn't start off with a string of losses, so it was never put to the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Bison44 said: SO why not hire Herdman last winter?? Its a shit show when you commit to one guy then can him before he can do anything. Even Floro got a cycle, there has to be more to this. This was what I was asking myself. My first thought was that maybe Montagliani was against him being a coach of the men's team. But after a bit more time to reflect (read: speculate) perhaps it's just that the CSA didn't want to lose him as the women's team coach. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too, hoping that Zambrano could have a Herdman-like effect on the men's program. Then when the chips were down and they were going to lose Herdman completely, they backtracked and gave him the job (and maybe they already were thinking of getting rid of Zambrano, maybe not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said: Not just Herdman, it could be just anyone else that doesn't seem qualified for the job from past coaching or playing experience. But you don't think that they are more likely to have given the likes of Floro or Zambrano the benefit of the doubt if and when things had started to go bad? We'll never know about the latter I suppose because he didn't start off with a string of losses, so it was never put to the test. Floro? Yes. Agreed. Zambrano? No. I mean, it's not like Sam Piette is going to not roll his eyes at some crazy instructions because he is suddenly in awe of Zambrano's time playing indoor with the Lasers or the months Zambrano spent in charge at Delfin. If they have more respect for Zambrano's uninspiring career - let's be honest he was a weak, high-reward, low-risk appointment - rather than Herdman's success, they're going to be lost anyway. I think we forget that, between 2005 and 2012, that we spent five years with a coach, interimcoach or TD whose only club coaching occurred at Halifax King of Donair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jith12 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 OZ quoted the latter post on his Twitter. He's probably pretty sour about this whole thing. When is this press conference he speaks of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I'm sure there are two sides to this, but I'm pretty suspicious of any account in English that not only references futbol, but also inlcudes the accent aigu on the u. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 15 hours ago, harrycoyster said: Duane Rollins on his podcast just now: "Zambrano did nothing wrong, this caught him off guard as well. This move was forced by Herdman, who has been looking to move into the men's side of the game. Canada Soccer met his demands." Holy crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said: Seeing, as you're the expert tell me what the difference is in handling human beings of all sizes, shapes, attitudes, races, colours and creeds. How many coaches can we hire with World Cup or Olympic experience. We haven't had too many recently aside from Floro. Actually even Floro didn't have that. I think Holger Osieck is the only manager that had Olympic or World Cup experience as a (assistant) manager at the time of being hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, rightback said: Holy crap! The only way that works is if Herdman was first choice for the MNT job and the CSA and him couldn't come to terms. Otherwise, it makes no sense from the CSA perspective. Either way Herdman has left the post they wanted him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said: Seeing, as you're the expert tell me what the difference is in handling human beings of all sizes, shapes, attitudes, races, colours and creeds. How many coaches can we hire with World Cup or Olympic experience. We haven't had too many recently aside from Floro. Maybe if the Jays want to go to the World Series they can hire a coach that won the Little League World Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califax Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said: I will give every V $1000 is Herdman is still the MNT coach in 2026. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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