Metro Vancouver CPL Club

[Watchmen]

48 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

I agree except for the bolded. I could see a lot of people from pitt meadows and maple ridge making the ~15 minute drive to LEC.

They need to stop overthinking this and just call it "Fraser Valley SC" already.

I think by "north of the river", he meant Burnaby/Vancouver region. Which are technically west of Langley but north of the river.

Naming it Fraser Valley (but let's be honest he'd go United over FC) might make more sense, but he did say as well that "I've been informed that Langley is technically not part of the Fraser Valley".

[toontownman]

Heard the name is AC/BC. After deliberation on kit colours they choice was to put the kits back in black.

 

[nolando]

35 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think by "north of the river", he meant Burnaby/Vancouver region. Which are technically west of Langley but north of the river.

Naming it Fraser Valley (but let's be honest he'd go United over FC) might make more sense, but he did say as well that "I've been informed that Langley is technically not part of the Fraser Valley".

Fraser Athletic sounds an awful lot like a CPL name to me. Maybe a Fort wall in the background and some kind of early farming implement in the logo/crest?

[JohnnyFranchise]

50 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Naming it Fraser Valley (but let's be honest he'd go United over FC) might make more sense, but he did say as well that "I've been informed that Langley is technically not part of the Fraser Valley".

I would love to know where he heard that. I guess he's just making ish up so he can eliminate logical name options and call it "vancouver". 🤣

Yes guys, I know "technically". But I know zero people who live in Langley and don't consider it the fraser valley. So nobody better @ me with "it's not part of the fvrd" or anything like that.

Edited April 20, 2022 by JohnnyFranchise

[narduch]

5 hours ago, nolando said:

Just a thought, and NOT saying it's a good idea, but I wonder if Fraser might somehow be incorporated into the team name? I've lived in the Fraser Valley and I have lived in Vancouver for an almost equal amount of time and will agree with those saying that to call this team Vancouver anything is a huge mistake that insults people in both locations.

Rob Friend stated he wants Vancouver in the team name.

I'm guessing this is a lesson learned from York 9/United 

Edited April 20, 2022 by narduch

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I think by "north of the river", he meant Burnaby/Vancouver region. Which are technically west of Langley but north of the river.

Naming it Fraser Valley (but let's be honest he'd go United over FC) might make more sense, but he did say as well that "I've been informed that Langley is technically not part of the Fraser Valley".

Much of central and south Langley and parts of Surrey are in a different river basin (Serptentine, Nicomekl), but are in the Fraser Valley. Near where the Langley Event Centre is, Latimer Creek flows west into the Serpentine, eventually.

The Valley is not defined by the hydrological basin, since some rivers flow southwest out of the Surrey-Langley area into Boundary Bay, rather than into the Fraser. Then, technically, parts of Northern Washingston state are in the Fraser basin and some would say in the F Valley as well. 

I did not know this by memory, but recently, with the flooding, my father was interviewed by a historical society on his recollections: he was recruited with other teens during the floods of 1948, and he sent me a full dossier of his own research on flood plains, dykes, much of which he's explored over the pandemic, walking on dykes throughout; he also recalls my grandfather sold material to those dealing with Fraser flood control in the 40s and 50s.

All this is, to be frank, totally irrelevant to choosing a good name for a soccer team, I insist that Friend's obsession with putting Vancouver in it does not make entire sense to me. The only thing I like about it is rivalling the Caps, if it makes these latter wake the hell up.

[Cicero]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

Rob Friend stated he wants Vancouver in the team name.

I'm guessing this is a lesson learned from York 9/United 

That may be, but I think he learned the wrong lesson. No one in the area around York University would ever say, "I'm from York Region, or York." Nobody thinks that way. They would say Toronto, Vaughan or maybe some would still say North York. I wonder if they had just tapped into existing community soccer groups, like having a Vaughan Azzuri franchise, whether they would have done better. I'm sure that discussion has happened on this board at some point. Getting back to the point, no one in Langley thinks of themselves as from Vancouver. And to split hairs on it being technically in the Fraser Valley is absurd. Everyone in the area considers it as part of the Valley.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Cicero

[m-g-williams]

I mean, if "Fraser Valley" works fine for the Bandits who will *literally* be playing next door, I don't see why it can't work for the CPL team. I've never been to BC (save for the odd layover in YVR), but if people in and around Langley don't identify with Vancouver, then I'd say don't force it. 

I can understand the flipside, though - there's a reason they're called the Ottawa Senators and not the Kanata Senators (despite their location), and no offence to anyone in Langford, but I secretly wish the team/league/media would just say the team is in Victoria/Metro Victoria than keep stressing that they're in Langford. Fraser Valley I had at least heard of before (same fur Surrey and nearby areas), and York I get from the history of the British settlement at what is now Toronto. Advertising a team in a D1 league in a city (town?) that most people have never heard of just seems a bit odd.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

I mean, if "Fraser Valley" works fine for the Bandits who will *literally* be playing next door, I don't see why it can't work for the CPL team. I've never been to BC (save for the odd layover in YVR), but if people in and around Langley don't identify with Vancouver, then I'd say don't force it. 

I can understand the flipside, though - there's a reason they're called the Ottawa Senators and not the Kanata Senators (despite their location), and no offence to anyone in Langford, but I secretly wish the team/league/media would just say the team is in Victoria/Metro Victoria than keep stressing that they're in Langford. Fraser Valley I had at least heard of before (same fur Surrey and nearby areas), and York I get from the history of the British settlement at what is now Toronto. Advertising a team in a D1 league in a city (town?) that most people have never heard of just seems a bit odd.

The reason Pacific can't be Langford, is that the municipality of Langford is making a major investment and there has to be some return. Otherwise you are investing in sport and the dumbass City of Victoria reaps the benefit? 

But then Langford accepts that mostly they won't get teams to be called Langford this and that. I mean, Victoria is not even the largest municipality in Greater Victoria. Like how the municipality of Vancouver represents less than 20% of the metro population (going on memory here).

I do see that for Rugby 7s, Langford does retain the name on the international website, I find that interesting.

https://www.world.rugby/sevens-series/stage/2072/about?lang=en

So for Langley the same: we are going to invest in infrastructure, and then the team playing in our facilities will be giving free advertising to a municipality 40 km away? If I were a small city politician I'd have some serious questions about approving that. 

If you look at where a provincial or state name is used in North America, we have the CFL, and then a few cases where you have rivalry of cities (Twin Cities in Minnesota), or where your population in distributed over the territory more evenly (Carolina). Then you brand your regional-state pride directly, but also related to multi-city identities  (Texas Rangers in Dallas-Fort Worth).

So as Vancouver stalls demographically and the metro area grows, it'd make sense to revert to the provincial name. But then: a damn long name, two words; and then shortened to BC, which if you are outside of Canada loses recognition fasts (even in the States many don't recognise BC). 

If I am not mistaken, at one point pre MLS the Caps changed their name officially to Whitecaps FC to avoid the Vancouver name, is that right? Since they were playing in a Burnaby facility and had gotten some pushback?

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, Cicero said:

That may be, but I think he learned the wrong lesson. The difference is that no one in the area around York University would ever say, "I'm from York Region, or York." Nobody thinks that way. They would say Toronto, Vaughan or maybe some would still say North York. I wonder if they had just tapped into existing community soccer groups, like having a Vaughan Azzuri franchise, whether they would have done better. I'm sure that discussion has happened on this board at some point. Getting back to the point, no one in Langley thinks of themselves as from Vancouver. And to split hairs on it being technically in the Fraser Valley is absurd. Everyone in the area considers it as part of the Valley.

Just to be precise: I (occasionally) meet people in Europe who say "I'm from Vancouver", and it could be anywhere from Squamish to Hope. 

Same as the whole "I'm from New York" business that half of New Jersey uses when travelling. 

But you are right that as you get closer to home, people are more precise. 

Does a person from Maple Ridge visiting family in Windsor way he's from Maple Ridge, don't think so.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just to be precise: I (occasionally) meet people in Europe who say "I'm from Vancouver", and it could be anywhere from Squamish to Hope. 

Same as the whole "I'm from New York" business that half of New Jersey uses when travelling. 

But you are right that as you get closer to home, people are more precise. 

Does a person from Maple Ridge visiting family in Windsor way he's from Maple Ridge, don't think so.

It's true, but we're talking about people forming a connection to the team. At the beginning especially, that's far more important than how people elsewhere view the team. Particularly in a league like the CPL where the core group of fans are likely to be from an area very near to the stadium location.

[Cicero]

What it feels like to me is that he's not fully committed to this location, and he's hoping to draw fans from Surrey and New West, so that in a few years when he finds/can afford some land in Guildford or King George or maybe Queen's Park, he'll move the team and keep the fan base. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Surrey on the SkyTrain is where they have always really wanted to be and probably still hope to be courtesy of 2026. At that point Vancouver branding makes more sense than a Fraser Valley one, in my opinion. York 9 sounded like a CPSL team from the late 90s rather than something in a coast-to-coast fully pro league. Outer 'burb names are best avoided, in my opinion.

[Unnamed Trialist]

23 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Surrey on the SkyTrain is where they have always really wanted to be and probably still hope to be courtesy of 2026. At that point Vancouver branding makes more sense than a Fraser Valley one, in my opinion. York 9 sounded like a CPSL team from the late 90s rather than something in a coast-to-coast fully pro league. Outer 'burb names are best avoided, in my opinion.

The business of 'burb names: there is no problem for teams from what were London suburbs or outlying areas to have them: that was a natural solution as teams emerged in the early period. Having been in Belgium recently, you realise how many teams have the neighbourhood name, including suburban.

York 9 was IMO a great name, if they'd had a quality stadium to start it might have worked. It is more in line with older European or S American club names, quirky but end up being cherished (just saw "Always Ready" in Libertadores, did not know that team, from Bolivia).

But CPL is not this older model, clearly. 

That said, for a modest league like CPL, the idea of global branding is a bit much. And also shows little understanding of how local identities work in contemporary branding, where it is possible to latch onto ultra-local details and given them a global dimension through social media, helped by success on the field. Degrees of quirkiness have value, which is why if you give them time the CPL names will grow, IMO.

I suppose Friend wants to ensure they can maximise the Vancouver brand, since he's been given exclusivity. And he has this ambition to be the second team in Vancouver, which is ambitious, I like it (mostly as it may force the Caps to wake up). He also understands that Vancouver is a strong brand. Mind you, Friend is not a Vancouverite, he's from the Okanagan and I dare say has never lived in the Lower Mainland (or little), so me may not understand a few things.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[nolando]

Next to nobody will be driving from Vancouver, or even Burnaby, for this product, no matter how good. Not even your connoisseurs  People in Vancouver just hate driving east, if they can help it, except for questionable decision-making like Ikea.

The bigger question is, will people still drive right past, next to, or through Langley, from places like Abbotsford/Surrey to support the Whitecaps if they have a comparable and arguably homier, more affordable local alternative? And will a good chunk of soccer fans choose both? If you can sell 3000 seats from the immediate community, then perhaps you only need 500 -2000 from further afield to make this idea work.

[Cicero]

53 minutes ago, nolando said:

Next to nobody will be driving from Vancouver, or even Burnaby, for this product, no matter how good. Not even your connoisseurs  People in Vancouver just hate driving east, if they can help it, except for questionable decision-making like Ikea.

The bigger question is, will people still drive right past, next to, or through Langley, from places like Abbotsford/Surrey to support the Whitecaps if they have a comparable and arguably homier, more affordable local alternative? And will a good chunk of soccer fans choose both? If you can sell 3000 seats from the immediate community, then perhaps you only need 500 -2000 from further afield to make this idea work.

I would be surprised if they draw many people from Abbotsford or Maple Ridge. Maybe a few really committed soccer fans. Crossing the river and the length of drive from Abbotsford just add too much friction for most people. Some will say that the bridge makes it easy now, but I suspect it's still a significant psychological barrier for people. For pure entertainment choices, there has to be almost zero friction for people to repeatedly choose to do something.  The committed core is likely to be no more than 2-3k at best judging by other teams' support.

At least Langley wouldn't have as much trouble with weather. This is a major source of friction in Hamilton. I have evidence from my own household that this is a fact. The problem is it's only comfortable to sit and watch for about a month in late May to early June, and another month in late September to early October. Other than that, you're freezing in the wind, freezing in the rain, or sweating buckets. So you really have to want to be there.

I'm curious how the owners actually view the long term prospects of the league. Are they committed, soccer-for-the-sake-of-soccer people, or are some in it because they believe their franchise has the potential to eventually start escalating in value like MLS?

[ted]

3 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

... I secretly wish the team/league/media would just say the team is in Victoria/Metro Victoria than keep stressing that they're in Langford.

F#@%,"secretly"!

I am very vocal about the idiocy forced on us by circumstances. "Greater Victoria" is where the team plays and pretending that anyone says anything other then, "Victoria" when asked where they live to anyone off the Island is ridiculous.

Sorry, rant over for this season.

[Kingston]

39 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The committed core is likely to be no more than 2-3k at best judging by other teams' support.

I'm curious how the owners actually view the long term prospects of the league. Are they committed, soccer-for-the-sake-of-soccer people, or are some in it because they believe their franchise has the potential to eventually start escalating in value like MLS?

I hope they can draw on some committed core support but I worry for this team that those who are willing to do more travelling for soccer are already committed to the Whitecaps.

As for the ownership groups, I suspect they ultimate believe their franchise value will start to escalate, although not to the extent of MLS.  They may have a fondness for soccer, but they see it as a business opportunity and hope to - eventually - be able to see a return.

[JohnnyFranchise]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

Next to nobody will be driving from Vancouver, or even Burnaby, for this product, no matter how good. Not even your connoisseurs  People in Vancouver just hate driving east, if they can help it, except for questionable decision-making like Ikea.

The bigger question is, will people still drive right past, next to, or through Langley, from places like Abbotsford/Surrey to support the Whitecaps if they have a comparable and arguably homier, more affordable local alternative? And will a good chunk of soccer fans choose both? If you can sell 3000 seats from the immediate community, then perhaps you only need 500 -2000 from further afield to make this idea work.

this 💯

i said earlier i live in new westminster (<20 minute drive to LEC) and i don't see myself going to a lot of games "out there". i would think the catchment area is basically lanlgey, maple ridge/pitt meadows, and maybe abbotsford, maybe. i think they've lost surrey simply because people living in the (soon to be) biggest city in the province will feel jilted that they've been passed up for a sports team, again. maybe people in cloverdale will buzz over for games because people living in cloverdale have no pride anyways 😁

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

this 💯

i said earlier i live in new westminster (<20 minute drive to LEC) and i don't see myself going to a lot of games "out there". i would think the catchment area is basically lanlgey, maple ridge/pitt meadows, and maybe abbotsford, maybe. i think they've lost surrey simply because people living in the (soon to be) biggest city in the province will feel jilted that they've been passed up for a sports team, again. maybe people in cloverdale will buzz over for games because people living in cloverdale have no pride anyways 😁

Most likely casuals won't go because they won't be aware it's even there, unless they have mainstream attention (which they won't under the MediaPro deal).

I see the push to call the club "Vancouver" as an attempt to make it instantly recognizable, the brand and harder to simply ignore.

[SpursFlu]

People from Vancouver don't leave Vancouver for anything. When they go east of Boundary road they put on a big hat and carry a musket because they think they're on safari. Only the biggest soccer nerds from Vancouver and Burnaby would attend these games. They'll probably hate the atmosphere anyways and jump back in to their evo and never return. Maple Ridge to Langley is nothing and the connectivity has really grown since the old days of having to use a ferry. On a Saturday afternoon its 15/20min drive from Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows to LEC

Edited April 20, 2022 by SpursFlu

[JohnnyFranchise]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

People from Vancouver don't leave Vancouver for anything. When they go east of Boundary road they put on a big hat and carry a musket because they think they're on safari. Only the biggest soccer nerds from Vancouver and Burnaby would attend these games. They'll probably hate the atmosphere anyways and jump back in to their evo and never return. Maple Ridge to Langley is nothing and the connectivity has really grown since the old days of having to use a ferry. On a Saturday afternoon its 15/20min drive from Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows to LEC

i almost laughed water out of my nose at "jump back in to their evo and never return" 🤣

[Soro17]

4 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

People from Vancouver don't leave Vancouver for anything. When they go east of Boundary road they put on a big hat and carry a musket because they think they're on safari. Only the biggest soccer nerds from Vancouver and Burnaby would attend these games. They'll probably hate the atmosphere anyways and jump back in to their evo and never return. Maple Ridge to Langley is nothing and the connectivity has really grown since the old days of having to use a ferry. On a Saturday afternoon its 15/29min drive from Maple Ridge to LEC

We carry a musket because we are afraid of Valley Guy in his F350 with gun rack and quad in the back (which should be the team logo BTW). The stories of strange goings-on at places like the Stave Lake Flats are terrifying. Our EVO with roof-mounted $20k road bike doesn't stand a chance.

[SpursFlu]

12 minutes ago, Soro17 said:

We carry a musket because we are afraid of Valley Guy in his F350 with gun rack and quad in the back (which should be the team logo BTW). The stories of strange goings-on at places like the Stave Lake Flats are terrifying. Our EVO with roof-mounted $20k road bike doesn't stand a chance.

I know Vancouver guy has watched a bit too much Rachel Maddow so the moment he sees a guy in a truck wearing an Under Armor hoodie the toxic masculinity is just too much so they immediately flee in the other direction on their electric scooter

[SpursFlu]

All joking aside I think the smartest and safest move is for this team to go with Valour, Wanderers style name identity 

I like South of Fraser FC but that's probably just me